What if a Chaotic Neutral character casts Order's Wrath, by means of a magical device?
(30ft area, but it doesn't say it EXCLUDES the caster since it assumes you are of the Law Domain)
What if a Chaotic Neutral character casts Order's Wrath, by means of a magical device?
(30ft area, but it doesn't say it EXCLUDES the caster since it assumes you are of the Law Domain)
By all rights, magical device or not, it should either not work at all (since a Lawful effect is not usable by a Chaotic critter); require the relavent Use Magic Device check (to emulate the alignment & thus avoid the automatic backlash from firing the device off); or work when fired and frag the goober using it as per the spell description. Although if it involves a Reflex saving throw the goober is unlikely to get it, holding/wearing the source device and all that ...
I agree, the wielder would be subject to the effects (unless emulating a lawful alignment) and would not get a saving throw for his folly. Whoops!
TK
I think that a strict reading would be that because Use Magic Device only works on devices, and not spells, the "goober" who set off the effect would still get blasted. You throw a fireball on your toes, you're going to get burned.
If you want to be more lenient, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that the spell effect was fooled because it was tied to the item, or even just because activating a Lawful Item involves twisting your thought processes around to a lawful frame of mind for that moment, and so he was "temporarily lawful". You might only allow that "lingering alignment protection" if he exceeds the DC by five, if you wanted a compromise.
Of course, there's nothing about that in the RAW to the best of my knowledge, but it makes more sense than just sort of waving the wand around saying "Um, yeah, Law is positive. I cleaned my desk last year, if that counts."
What if a Chaotic Neutral character casts Order's Wrath, by means of a magical device?
What if a wizard is dumb enough to cast fireball when he is in the area of effect himself?
Same thing.
By all rights, magical device or not, it should either not work at all (since a Lawful effect is not usable by a Chaotic critter); require the relavent Use Magic Device check (to emulate the alignment & thus avoid the automatic backlash from firing the device off); or work when fired and frag the goober using it as per the spell description. Although if it involves a Reflex saving throw the goober is unlikely to get it, holding/wearing the source device and all that ...What if a Chaotic Neutral character casts Order's Wrath, by means of a magical device?
(30ft area, but it doesn't say it EXCLUDES the caster since it assumes you are of the Law Domain)
Alright, the device, a wondrous item at that, is simple to activate...
It is a lock, right? on a chain (the item is similar to an amulet) with a key attached to the chain, if you put the key in it and turn it clockwise, the Order's Wrath effect occurs, thus blasting the 30ft area, but the device only affects the area of the wearer's choosing, if the wearer doesn't know that he has to choose an area, or what will happen if he activates the item, then what happens?
Does the spell still go off, does it, by default, affect the 30ft sphere around the wearer? Or does it simply not function?
I think in this case a simple use magic device check may not result in him being unable to use the magic item- since it is a wondrous item, not a wand, but a check would be useful- as I would say- to activate the item as per the item's description- to replace the component of the action such as determining what area is effected? or would it not be necessary at all?
I did ask him to roll a use magic device check, he rolled a 23, which is BELOW the set DC of 25 for using a magic device blindly, but he HASN'T told me what he does in lieu of knowing what to do to activate the item (speaking some kind of word in lieu of a command word, waving his hands, etc.), yet.
This is a bard, and he's chaotic neutral, if the Order's Wrath goes off as he's walking down the street, several people- and possibly him (though he hasn't sent me a copy of his updated character sheet yet, so I'm not sure how many hps he has)- could suddenly die because they are in fact, as most human's are, neutral. Naturally they get a save, as does he, I would say, if it goes off.
I'm very tempted to let it go off, to teach him a lesson, after his remarkable haul from the tavern he acquired the item at, and possibly lead to having him give up the item to a soon to be met lawful character (and the one time use activation is recharged in the hands of another character I will say)
The item in question, for anyone interested is the "Lawkeeper's Lock" out of the Ghostwalk book. (the only change over to 3.5 notes it as Moderate Conjuration)
Btw, the character ALREADY decided to turn the key clockwise, thus activating the Order's Wrath, I just haven't thrown down the wrath yet, or had him actually follow through with the action- I let him roll Bardic Knowledge (it failed) but he met the dc on Knowledge Religion to know a LIMITED amount of information about the item, basically minus what it actually does, but knowing that the effects provided by turning the key only happen once and that it is called the Lawkeeper's Lock. (I figured it should be a Knowledge Religion check as the spells, at least Order's Wrath are strictly divine.)
I still have yet to determine how many bystanders are around, and what their alignments are, irregardless, I doubt anyone would notice- as it is about 1-3 am in Manifest, so the only people out are drunk, and the City Watch isn't in full force on patrol, but it IS a crime to use a spell on/attack an unarmed person. So there may be reprocussions there. If not, then it'll still be in his best interests to continue with his plan to split town.
-Oh, and it is a WILL save for partial damage.
I do think that most of the inhabitants would be true neutral, so they could end up taking only a quarter of the damage, but that would still kill most commoners outright, even warriors for that matter- 1d8 per caster level, max of 5d8- the item presumes a caster level of 9th to make the item, so that would be the caster level at which it would be cast so...4d8, right?
If no one gives me a better idea by the time he talks to me next...
I'll probably flip a coin (to see if he is able to activate it without the use magic device success), or roll a 6 sided die to determine if infact he is unable to activate the item (partly due to failing his Use Magic Device check), Unaffected by the spell's effect since he is unable to emulate the TARGETING, or able to activate it and is fully affected, half damage if he makes his will save.
And to emphasize again, the item says nothing about requiring the user to be lawful- but it does presume such. The condition he would be emulating with the use magic device would probably be the targeting aspect- that the wearer chooses where the effect occurs.
Let me get this straight. He finds an item with unknown effects, obviously magical, and decides to activate it in the middle of the street? He deserves what he gets. This is D&D Darwinism in action.
Let me get this straight. He finds an item with unknown effects, obviously magical, and decides to activate it in the middle of the street? He deserves what he gets. This is D&D Darwinism in action.
well, it's better than him summoning a hound archon OR a Achaierai, but then again, since he is neither good nor evil, I'm not sure what he would summon, if anything. (as per the item's ability, if you turn it counterclockwise it summons a hound archon if you're good and a Achaierai if you're evil)
If he's dumb enough to turn it counter-clockwise (if he survives the Order's Wrath) then I'll probably make it summon BOTH, though it certainly doesn't include that in the item description or the power of the spell, it'd be like getting the wires crossed. Whichever would win against the other would probably do away with the mischievous item user.
Is this a homebrew item, or is it from a published source?
The item in question, for anyone interested is the "Lawkeeper's Lock" out of the Ghostwalk book. (the only change over to 3.5 notes it as Moderate Conjuration)
Is this a homebrew item, or is it from a published source?
As Thanis quotes me, It is from the 3.0 Ghostwalk Book. (there is a small entry on it in the 3.5 conversion, but that just makes it a moderate conjuration item)