Yes, thats right, the paladin prestige class.
Personally I dispise the Paladin, why does a holy warrior have to be a paladin? why is someone not a good enough holy warrior if he is not a paladin? why is the "holy warrior" class reserved for LG?
oh and heres my big question: Why is the blackguard a prestige class and the paladin isnt? The greatest holy warriors for evil must be uber strong (relativly speeking) before gaining the blackguard prestige class while paladins can begin at 1st level.
Solution: a good-variant blackguard named the "paldin" smite good, cure disease istead of neak attack, divine grace, lay on hands instead of poison use... etc
comments?
in a completly unrelated issue the monk class has been disintegrated and "monks" are now pacifist clerics this was due to nothing other than tat they didnt fit into my campaign.
if a character insists on the monk they better have good backstory
In Unearthed Arcana there are rules for making the Paladin, Ranger and (I think?) Bard prestige classes only. I agree,I thought it seemed like a pretty good idea for the Paladin, though maybe not the other two.
Paladins to me just don't seem so essential and basic as the other base classes. They always seemed to me to be a base class that was little more than a mix of two other base classes, fighter and cleric.
Ranger and Bard have abilities from several base classes however, so it would be horribly inefficient to recreate them by multi-classing.
Even though I do like the paladin class and probably wouldn't have a great deal of personal interest in incorporating the concept as a prestige class, I can appreciate your sentiments. It did strike me as odd that, in this age of D&D where choices for character alignment have been opened up more (or so I've heard), that only the alignment of L and G got a holy warrior. Obviously, the paladin is tradition and part of D&D culture by now, but I think if the concept first emerged in 3rd edition, there's no question that, under some of the founding principles of the new version, it would be a prestige class.
I also agree that while Bard and Ranger could be seen as worthy of transformation into PrCs, they are unique enough that such a conversion would probably end up being a bad thing.
Another option would be to radically alter the paladin and open them up to more alignments. Perhaps mandate that they have to take a role at one of the four corners of the alignment chart and give them a progression of abilities that coincided with that, much like a ranger gets their combat style?
Oh, and I take it you mean that "monks" have been turned into the European meaning of the word? I can see the reasoning and aesthetic value behind that. Do you still allow them if someone comes up with a killer backstory, or are they completely out of the question? Either one is fine in your world, I'm just curious!
Dragon #310 has five paladin variants which cover all then non-evil alignments (except for lawful good) and Dragon #312 has three evil paladin variants.
They have modified skill lists, abilities, spell lists, and codes of conduct.
Like Saern said the simplest solution is to just open up more alignments. In fact, I open them all up in my games. Yes even true neutral; if you can come up with a story as to why your character is a crusader of neutrality you can smite the four extremes.
like I said the monk class is generally out of the question even with npcs
that said, A character who truly desires to play the monk class may, as long as they have a great backstory for how they were trained and where they came from
hmmmm.... I just went back and checked and the alternate paladins are great Ideas, but I still think that the paragons of any faith should be prestige classes after all the paladin should be a title and an honor rather than "eh another paladin? go join the ranks"
You have to look @ the origin of the Paladin as a concept, not in game terms. Look @ the Arthurian stories, specifically Galahad. It's essentially the "ideal" of a Christian Knight of the middle ages. If playing a LG character chafes so much, multiclass.
But i think there is room for a Paladin prc. It is a "higher" path that not many would choose to go down or be able to stick to. And that gives a player something to strive for.
You have to look @ the origin of the Paladin as a concept, not in game terms. Look @ the Arthurian stories, specifically Galahad. It's essentially the "ideal" of a Christian Knight of the middle ages. If playing a LG character chafes so much, multiclass.
But i think there is room for a Paladin prc. It is a "higher" path that not many would choose to go down or be able to stick to. And that gives a player something to strive for.
exactly, If one wants to play a LG holy warrior it can easily be done wit the fighter and become the paladin prc could be very much like medieval knighting.
this also has the advantage of making the characters feel honored by being chosen.
Right, but it puts the onus on the DM to have a paladin organization that the character knows about, and can join. Which is fine, but still requires the DM to work with thier players, which many (myself included) get too wrapped up in thier own story ideas to do. YMMV :)
Another option would be to radically alter the paladin and open them up to more alignments. Perhaps mandate that they have to take a role at one of the four corners of the alignment chart and give them a progression of abilities that coincided with that, much like a ranger gets their combat style?
I have written a class similar to this, though I also took away the spellcasting ability. Without going into the entire thing, here's the basic features.
* Alignment Choice (Ex): The pilgrim chooses one aspect of his alignment (Law, Chaos, Good, or Evil) to focus on. His choice dictates the powers he gains as he advances in this class, and can never be changed. He must always maintain the alignment of choice. If he should ever fail to maintain his alignment of choice, he loses all pilgrim abilities until he atones.
* Minor Aura (Ex): The pilgrim exudes an aura equivalent to his alignment of choice. At 2nd level, the pilgrim has a moderate aura. At 5th level, the pilgrim has a strong aura. At 11th level, the pilgrim has an overwhelming aura. The aspect of his alignment that isn’t his alignment of choice gives off a normal aura.
* Detect (Ps): The pilgrim may use Detect Alignment, detecting the alignment opposite that of his alignment choice, at will.
* Smite (Su): The pilgrim gains a smite attack that he may use once per day. This attack only works on creatures that have an alignment opposite that of the pilgrim’s alignment choice. When smiting, the pilgrim adds his Charisma modifier to the attack roll, and his pilgrim level to damage. At 5th level, and every 5 levels thereafter, the pilgrim gains 1 additional use of the smite attack per day.
* Touch of Power (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, the pilgrim gains a special ability that he can use simply by touching the target of the power. The power gained depends on the alignment of choice, as follows.
o Touch of Life: The good pilgrim gains the power to heal. He may heal a total number of hit points equal to his Charisma bonus times his pilgrim level per day. This healing may be used all at once, or spread out throughout the day, to one or multiple targets.
o Touch of Death: The evil pilgrim gains the power to hurt. He may deal a total damage equal to his Charisma bonus times his pilgrim level per day. This damage may be dealt all at once, or spread out throughout the day, to one or multiple targets.
o Touch of Retribution: The lawful pilgrim gains the power of an eye for an eye. He gains a number of retributive points equal to his Charisma bonus times his pilgrim level per day, which may be used on a single target at one time, or spread out throughout the day and multiple targets. When the target is damaged by any means, the attacking creature (if any) takes an equal amount of damage. If there is no attacking creature, the retributive damage is not used. If the retributive damage is not used within 24 hours, it is lost.
o Touch of Confusion: The chaotic pilgrim gains the power to confuse foes. He gains a number of rounds of confusion (as the spell) equal to his Charisma bonus times his pilgrim level per day. He may give at most a number of rounds equal to his Charisma bonus to any one target at a time. If this ability is used on a target already affected by a Touch of Confusion, the durations do not stack, but overlap.
* Pilgrim’s Hope (Su): The hope of seeing his quest through to completion is enough to make the pilgrim more survivable. At 2nd level, he gains a bonus to all saves equal to his Charisma bonus (if any).
* Moderate Aura (Su): At 3rd level, the pilgrim’s belief in his cause is great enough to give others around him a slight insight into the belief. This takes the effect of an aura emanating 10 feet from the pilgrim, which functions as long as the pilgrim is conscious. The aura’s power depends on the alignment of choice, as follows.
o Aura of Courage: The good pilgrim is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of him gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
o Aura of Distress: The evil pilgrim causes great unease in those around him. Every foe within 10 feet of him receives a –2 morale penalty on all checks.
o Aura of Sanity: The lawful pilgrim is immune to all compulsion effects (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of him gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects.
o Aura of Insanity: The chaotic pilgrim is immune to all compulsion effects (magical or otherwise). Each foe within 10 feet of him suffers a –4 penalty on saving throws against compulsion effects.
* Aligned Weapon (Su): The 6th level pilgrim may treat any masterwork or better weapon he holds as if it were aligned with his alignment of choice. So a good pilgrim would wield Holy weapons, an evil pilgrim has Unholy weapons, a lawful pilgrim would wield Axiomatic weapons, and a chaotic pilgrim’s weapons would be Anarchic.
* Damage Reduction (Ex): At 6th level, the pilgrim gains DR 2/Alignment. The alignment opposite his chosen alignment surpasses this damage reduction. Every six levels, the damage reduction increases by 2 points.
* Major Aura (Ps): At 9th level, the pilgrim may use his major aura 1/week. The power of this aura is determined by his alignment of choice, as detailed below. The major aura affects all creatures within 10 feet per Charisma bonus (minimum 10’), and can last for up to 1 hour. The pilgrim can dismiss the aura as a free action. At 14th level, and every 5 levels thereafter, the pilgrim may use his aura one additional time per week.
o Aura of Health: The good aligned pilgrim may use his Aura of Health to remove all diseases for each creature that remains within the aura for at least 10 minutes. This aura affects supernatural and magical diseases as well.
o Aura of Disease: The evil aligned pilgrim has an Aura of Disease. The pilgrim may choose to have the disease’s effect to be one of the following: d4 Strength, d6 Dexterity, d3 Constitution, d6 Intelligence, d4 Wisdom, or d8 Charisma. Regardless of the ability affected by the disease, the onset is in 1 day, and the save DC is 10 + the pilgrim’s Charisma Modifier.
o Aura of Truth: All creatures within the aura are affected as if in a Zone of Truth. There is no save for this ability, but all creatures within the aura realize that they are being affected by the aura. Creatures immune to compulsion are still affected by this aura. The Aura of Truth contains no compulsion to speak while within its area.
o Aura of Revelation: Creatures within the Aura of Revelation must make a Will save (DC 10 + the pilgrim’s Charisma Modifier) or begin speaking their deepest secrets. The affects of the revelations are beyond the scope of this power.
* Moment of Legend (Su): As a standard action, the pilgrim of at least 11th level may steel himself to perform a legendary deed. The pilgrim gains a +4 bonus to Strength, Constitution, or Charisma for one minute. This ability may be used once per day.
* Tend to Mount (Ex): Any spell, skill, or other effect used to heal the mount has its effectiveness multiplied by five. This includes the good pilgrim’s Touch of Life power. In addition, every pilgrim may channel his Touch of Power points into a Touch of Life for their mount only; using their touch of power in this way is not affected by the multiplication.
* Focus of Alignment (Ex): At 16th level, the pilgrim is so in tune with the forces of his chosen alignment that he loses every other aspect of his alignment, and may no longer be affected by any spells or effects that rely on that aspect of their alignment. For example, a Lawful Good pilgrim who has focused on Good is no longer considered to be lawful, and would no longer be affected by spells or powers which harm lawful creatures. In addition, the pilgrim gains the subtype according to his alignment of choice, and loses any other alignment subtypes he may have had.
Dragon #310 has five paladin variants which cover all then non-evil alignments (except for lawful good) and Dragon #312 has three evil paladin variants.
I've read both articles and they are both very good. Really opens up a lot of options. Anyone who thinks that the paladin class is too restrictive should really read them.
On a further note. In earlier editions of DnD, the paladin was an extremely rare paragon of virtue. Not everyone did, or even could become a paladin. There were no prsitige classes back then, and multiclassing was a lot more difficult. Some classes (such as the paladin) had steep requirements and thus few people ever became them.
When 3rd edition rolled out and prestige classes were added in, core classes became pretty much universally available with a few minor exceptions, such as alignment requirements. Anyhow, I think that WoTC wanted to keep the paladin a core class but couldn't justify prerequisites for a core class that just didn't fit in the game anymore. So the paladin's class requirements were droped significantly, keeping the alignment restiction and thus the demenor, but lossing the mystique.
Did this work for everybody? Well, apparently not. But I honestly think that is the reason for why the paladin is what it is today.
Honestly, I've always enjoyed the paladin class, though I think that a setting where paladins were a rare prestige class could be neat. It would definately add to the flavor and give a hearty dose of glamour.
If you're looking for Paladins as a Prestige Class, WotC already did the work. Prestige Paladin. For your monk (in the western sense), you could use the Cloistered Cleric from Unearthed Arcana.
Isn't there options on Paladin variants in Unearthed Arcana? (Paladin of Freedom, Tyranny and one more?)
Yeah, I'll refer to this thread in my thread.
I'm sort of with you on the prestige class for paladin, but I'm still one that says as long as the alignment is restrictive (or the method by which one becomes a paladin is restrictive) then paladin as a class isn't too open. I'm certainly going to look up the prestige class in the case of my player who has a monk who wants to become a paladin.
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I'm going to be bold and disagree here... I see D&D as beginning to trend away from the prestige class model. I think prestige classes are relied upon too heavily for concepts that really ought to start at level one.
Prestige classes should be for advanced learning, such as when a character is admitted into an elite society and gets specialized training (think of Mage of the Arcane Order or Red Wizard).
What we're seeing now is a greater abundance of base classes (PHBII anyone?) that allow players to create their character concept from the beginning. Take, for example, the duskblade; if you were going for an eldrich knight before, you had to start as a spellcaster or a warrior, generally with no abilities in the other area. Why? Why can't a character have trained to be well-rounded from the beginning?
Likewise, why should a holy warrior have to train as a mundane warrior for 5 or 6 levels first? Could he not have entreated his god for powers from the beginning? The blackguard, on the other hand, is well replaced by variant paladins such as those in Unearthed Arcana or the aforementioned Dragon issues.
In summary, let pretige classes be pretigious. Whole character concepts, such as the paladin, can and should be 20-level classes.