I have a member of my campaign who is playing a Lawful Neutral variant of the Goddess Istus (Lady of Fate) in Greyhawk. His variant is basically an undead hunter, who feels that those who either willingly choose or are forced into undead status have broken the threads Istus has woven for them and must be destroyed.
I have no problem with most of his tenets (he has finally delivered them to me), except for one:
"Make effort to observe and support the law except when it might interfere with the tenets of the order."
This, somehow, does not strike me as right for someone of Lawful Neutral alignment, since Lawful Neutral is basically "obey the law."
Your thoughts on this? Basically, I don't want to slam the player for a tenet that allows him to flout the law whenever it's convenient for him and still call himself Lawful Neutral. Especially if it is generally considered acceptable to have this sort of behavior in a LN character.
Syrinx
Creative Director
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I don't see a problem with this, since it's certainly possible to have conflicting laws in a region. In such a case, a lawful neutral character should be faced with a quandary, but must ultimately decide which law he wishes to uphold. In this case, the character's support of the order of Istus can certainly come into conflict with other laws, in which case his adherence to the laws of Istus shouldn't be a problem for his alignment.
Lawful neutral characters aren't robots or computers; they can make choices and interpret things. Sometimes that means choosing one conflicting law over the other.
Of course, since Istus herself is Neutral, I can also see a case where some of her "laws" might not make sense to most lawful neutral characters... But I suppose that as long as the character adheres to them, it should all be good.
I also see Lawful as structured, orderly and planned. Not follow the law. Laws in general are to provide structure and order. If the laws change like the wind a lawful character might not respect them very much at all, althought this is by far an extreme condition. My point is unlike most people in our society laws are not followed because of fear of consequence a lawful person follows them because of what they provide.
Syrinx!!!! SYRINX!!! When is the portal going to be alive again Syrinx!!! Make Rondak work!!
Anyways. Now that I am over that, I got something to say. James Jacob pretty much nailed it down here, but there is something that is over looked by some people. Lawful Neutral says "A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her"
or a personal code directs her
Therefore, the laws of the land take a backseat when the laws of Istus are being broken!
(A lawful neutral character could be a rogue who follows the theives code in this sense.)
Be careful about that personal code bit. It doesn't sound like this is the situation confronting you, but sometimes a person desiring to play a monk or some such, requiring a lawful alignment, will take on this personal code thing so that they can act however they want (more in line with a chaotic alignment, often veering towards Chaotic Stupid) because it's their personal code. Just a warning. Otherwise, I agree completely with the above statements.
I agree with the E&C; lawful characters should always have some tension between local law, written law, moral law, and the tenets of diefic law if applicable; it is these tensions that should enhance the joy of roleplaying lawful alignments. I would think it much more important that a lawful character steer clear of chatic behavior and only sometimes choose neutrality rather than trying to determine which law a person if following if your intent is to determine if the characters is acting lawfully. For example, if a person follows any of the laws as I previously mentioned, but does so only for his advancements and changes which laws are important or applicable depending on his situation and twists them to his advantage; then I would consider this still lawful by also evil.
Keep it within reason, I say.
If his disobeying of a local law seems within chracter, go with it. If it makes for good RP oppurtunities or interesting stories, then go with it.
If it becomes an excuse for excessive lawbreaking, step in. Don't let him run wild. If he starts going crazy, have him get punished. It doesn't matter how much he doesn't want to follow the laws, he can still be arrested.
Use it both ways. Sometimes, make his life inconvenient by telling him how a touchy law is againt his order.
This, somehow, does not strike me as right for someone of Lawful Neutral alignment, since Lawful Neutral is basically "obey the law."
I recommend you read this: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a
First of all, let's be clear about one important concept: Lawful does not necessarily mean "adheres to the letter of the law." A law (or body of laws) is merely a rule that a government imposes on those who are subject to its power. A lawful alignment, on the other hand, represents an orderly approach to matters of ethics and personal conduct. Most lawful characters do respect the order that the laws of the realm represent, but adherence to local ordinances is only one way of demonstrating a lawful alignment.
To be lawful is to be in favor of conformity and consistency, to act in a systematic and uniform fashion, and to take responsibility. As a lawful person, you establish patterns and precedents and stick to them unless you can see a good reason to do otherwise. Methodical efficiency is your byword, and you believe in the concept of duty. You plan and organize your activities to achieve particular goals, not just to satisfy impulsive desires. You believe a proper way exists to accomplish any goal, though it may not always be the traditional, tried-and-true way. Likewise, you cultivate long-term relationships and endeavor to build trust between your associates and yourself. As a lawful person, you recognize that most laws have valid purposes that promote social order, but you are not necessarily bound to obey them to the letter. In particular, if you are both good and lawful, you have no respect for a law is unfair or capricious.
Be careful about that personal code bit. It doesn't sound like this is the situation confronting you, but sometimes a person desiring to play a monk or some such, requiring a lawful alignment, will take on this personal code thing so that they can act however they want (more in line with a chaotic alignment, often veering towards Chaotic Stupid) because it's their personal code. Just a warning. Otherwise, I agree completely with the above statements.
Yup. It is generally a good idea to discuss a bit beforehand with players of the lawful characters what are the hierarchy of laws to them. Does local political laws outweight religious orders or other way around? What about issues like pacifism or, say, slavery? What does that personal code include?
Thanks for the responses, guys. I asked because I wasn't too certain whether I was in the right on this and you guys pretty much told me what my gut was saying, but my mind was rebelling against.
By the way, I told the player that James Jacobs replied to the question and he leapt up and down, shouting that "my character is more real now! Someone in a position of authority over Dungeons & Dragons has heard of him!"
I neglected to tell him that I never mentioned that characters name...
*shakes head*
Wierd.
^_^
Syrinx
