I also gave them a +2 racial bonus to intimidate.
I don't think giving a racial bonus to Intimidate is a good idea, since strength and physical appearance is relative. Would an orc have an Intimidate bonus against, say, a troll? How about a titan? Should a human have a bonus against a jermlaine? It opens a can of worms that's hard to shut.
I also gave them a +2 racial bonus to intimidate.I don't think giving a racial bonus to Intimidate is a good idea, since strength and physical appearance is relative. Would an orc have an Intimidate bonus against, say, a troll? How about a titan? Should a human have a bonus against a jermlaine? It opens a can of worms that's hard to shut.
Why not? Maybe orcs come from a culture where you have to be a bully to get anything. So they are good at it. Lots of practice. Like dwarves and crafting metal stuff, gnomes and alchemical thigns and halflings and throwing stuff. Bluster and bravado is so ingrained they do it without even meaning to, even against dragons and demons.
There is probably room for some circumstance modifiers if the victim of the intimdation knows how ineffectual the orc is (a troll or demon) or how overwhelming she is (a jermaline).
<Small rant> I had a great post supporting my conversion to Saern's bipartate orcish society (druidic vs. brutal) and it was completely eaten! Aargh!
Well, since the entire game seems to be written using the average human commoner as a baseline, I don't see where the problem with the orc's Intimidate bonus lies.
My computer's been hungry a lot lately, too, Callaway.
I also gave them a +2 racial bonus to intimidate.I don't think giving a racial bonus to Intimidate is a good idea, since strength and physical appearance is relative. Would an orc have an Intimidate bonus against, say, a troll? How about a titan? Should a human have a bonus against a jermlaine? It opens a can of worms that's hard to shut.Why not? Maybe orcs come from a culture where you have to be a bully to get anything. So they are good at it. Lots of practice. Like dwarves and crafting metal stuff, gnomes and alchemical thigns and halflings and throwing stuff. Bluster and bravado is so ingrained they do it without even meaning to, even against dragons and demons.
There is probably room for some circumstance modifiers if the victim of the intimdation knows how ineffectual the orc is (a troll or demon) or how overwhelming she is (a jermaline).
I agree with Callaway on 1st paragraph above--Orcs are naturally bullies, thus they know the techniques for intimidating people through their upbringing.
I don't think circumstance modifiers are needed, however--this is built into the mechanic of the intimidate skill, where the hit dice of both parties are factored in. Hit dice are a good proxy for measuring general bad-assness, and a troll is not likely to be intimidated by a 1st level orc fighter. A 10th level orc fighter might do it though--the troll has maybe been around the block and seen a few adventurers who could kick its butt, and recognizes such when he sees them.
I don't think circumstance modifiers are needed, however--this is built into the mechanic of the intimidate skill, where the hit dice of both parties are factored in. Hit dice are a good proxy for measuring general bad-assness, and a troll is not likely to be intimidated by a 1st level orc fighter. A 10th level orc fighter might do it though--the troll has maybe been around the block and seen a few adventurers who could kick its butt, and recognizes such when he sees them.
Very true. I was 1) semi-forgetting that & 2) addressing the concern that size has a factor, even if it's just in being able to "loom" effectively.
Very true. I was 1) semi-forgetting that & 2) addressing the concern that size has a factor, even if it's just in being able to "loom" effectively.
Size does have a factor -- for every category the intimidating creature is larger than their target, they gain a +4 bonus on the check. Conversely, for every category smaller, they take a -4 penalty. It's just hidden in the writeup for Intimidate, rather than being listed as a size effect, as it's based on Size Difference, rather than absolute size.
I found precedent for an orc that makes a good divine spell caster:
Gray Orcs: +2 str +2 wis -2 int -2 chr
Races of Faerun: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a
its on my favorite character generator: http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm
Yes, I remember gray orcs now. They have a +1 ECL, which I think is strange when one compares them to wood elves. When consulting the FRCS, the have the following statistics:
+2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha.
However, in the 3.5 MM, their adjustments are as follows:
+2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int.
They also have no LA. Now, one of two things is going on here. 1: The FRCS is 3.0 and my MM is 3.5, and they realized the penalties on wood elves were too stiff in the new edition. This still doesn't explain why orcs and half-orcs continue to get net penalties. 2: They really don't like orcs as much as a player option as elves. This seems more likely to me.
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This is exactly why Bards are an npc class IMC. If you want a really, really undesireable pc, make a half-orc bard. See if you can keep im alive at least to third lv...
The half-orc was really done a disservice, however, because they're a PC race. Players are /supposed/ to want to play them. And in /my/ world view, one doesn't work up a half-assed race if it's meant to be played, unless one is just lazy. It doesn't make sense for them to be engineered to be 'less-desirable'. If you don't want them played, don't put them in, and use the space for something people /will/ want.
1/2 orc bard with point blank shot and a handful of javelins. tactics: use bardic music at beginning of the combat, move to near the middle of the combat, keep shield-bearers btw. you and the enemy.
shoot and move, shoot and move
stats, using elite array:
Str 15, dex 14, con 12, int 8, wis 8, cha 13
stat increases go into str at 4th, then cha at 8th.
sure, this ain't a power-mongering uber build, but it's solid, and DEFINITELY not "npc-class" material.
bard is NOT weak, if you use it wisely.
for this particular character, cat's grace, bear's endurance, sudden inspiration, and "song of the heart" are all indicated.
by 3rd lvl (when he's already dead, by the above claims), he could be charming, dodging, and lying with the best of them.
seriously, just because it's not flashy or the most powerful, that don't make it useless or npc-worthy
-the hamster