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OK folks, here is my dilemma. I really think that the group I am running is either gonna wipe the floor with Dragotha, or die miserably. The Wizards first action is going to be a Time Stop, and he is going to gate the Solar from the Dragon Article. I also think he is going to use Mord's Disjunctification to blow all Dragothas stuff down. Then, as a Force Mage, he is gonna be devasating. I can take him out, but, in the text it says anyone who dies in the cathedral, cannot be ressurected or brought back. I don't want to end the campaign for a character who has been around since 1st level, but, he is the one who can lay the most smack on Drag. If I play Dragotha smart, he will be the target. Any input will be appreciated
I'd simply change things so dead characters can be brought back to life. If you aren't happy with something in the adventure just leave it out. Rules like that one aren't written in stone.
Mord's Disjunction can't be cast while in a time stop. Unless you meant that would be his first action afterwards, of course.
You know your players best. If losing a long-standing character, even in a heroic, near climactic encounter would spoil the rest of the campaign for the player, then change it so this doesn't happen. There are various alternatives that might work:
1. Simply ignore the prohibition against resurrection
2. Allow resurrection, but at a price. Perhaps the character's soul is marked by Kyuss, giving him some special benefit in the climax of the campaign.
3. Prevent resurrection, but allow the character's "force" to continue, perhaps as something similar to Balakarde's ghost. The player can bring in a new character, but he can still contribute in some small way as his former character.
Really, it's something you need to think about for the entire party in this encounter. I imagine that the Force Mage is not the only one who is in mortal peril for this battle.
Also, I'll echo the previous poster to say that Time Stop has some very specific limitations on what the caster can do. Mis-ruling Time Stop is a huge reason for anti-climactic battles at high levels. I'd recommend you pay close attention to the spell and re-read it before tonight.
Hope this helps!
Indeed. Don't be afraid to alter the module as you see fit.
I think you should let your wizard have his way with Dragotha. Dracoliches have plenty of resistances and immunities even without layered spells.
If that wizard has used time stop and Mord's disjunction in the past, Dragotha should be aware of the technique and prepare accordingly. Make sure Dragotha throws foes at the group that require those spells to be burned first, allowing Dragotha to step in once they've been cast.
Also, time stop and Mord's disjunction are very potent, reality-altering spells, and casting them with abandon might not sit well with certain deities and/or powers that be (Mystra, Inevitables, etc.). Casting those back-to-back could be enough to alert those powers, perhaps allowing another being to help (or perhaps even hinder) the PCs.
Not sure if that works with your campaign. Just some ideas.
If he can keep all than 9th level spell goodness until then allow him the chance to take out Dragotha. If the wizard dies then perhaps he should have been a little more conservative otherwise follow the other suggestions an spice things up a little.
Fortunately replacing a high level wizard before the final adventure shouldn't be too hard. Just have that archmage (I forget his name) or an associate join the group before their final encounters.
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The replacement doesn't seem to be the problem. The problem is that it would be a bummer for the player of the mage who played the AP through from the beginning only to be killed when the climax to the whole story is already on the horizon.
I can understand these thoughts, but i guess that this is one of the toughest fight in any adventure published to date and it should be played like this. Don't play Dragotha dumb or let him slip opportunities to defeat the characters. This is maybe the oldest known dracolich in the history of worlds (!!!) and it knows its ressources. And even with time-stop etc. i really can't see a single mage of this level whiping the floor with Dragotha, not with everything else that happens before the fight. But i might be proven wrong...
If i'd DM this module, i'd play Dragotha to the max, but i'd give the players the opportunity to prepare for this.
Maybe i'd ignore the ressurection-thingie too or treat it differently.
I really like the idea of this place beeing so soaked up with foul evil that the gods turn away from any request for help coming from this place. But i'd limit it to the place and not the character killed there. I'd rule that a character dying within the tabernacle of worms can'tbe ressurected there, but any place else. In this fashion you can play Dragotha as evil and forceful as it should be and still be nearly sure that the mentioned character can be around for the grande finale...
Martyrdom (Book of Exalted Deeds) could be a possibility, but it totally hinges on the character's alignment. Beyond that, without the module in front of me, I've got nothing beyond Cloning yourself beforehand.
I may have Tenser/Manzorian suggest cloning to the PCs at some point, as an insurance policy against hideous death at the hands of Kyuss' highest minions. However, there is a several month lead time needed for a clone to reach full growth. There was some debate in another thread about whether the clone is activated at the character's level at time of taking the flesh sample used to grow it, or at the character's level at time of death. I don't remember what the consensus was, but I would rule in favor of the latter, perhaps with a one-level raising penalty.
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Hmm, cloning?
Has it gotten that far?
Okay, it might be in the rules but is this a style of play you'd like to see in an exiting AP like AoW?
This is like a save-option in a Xbox-game!
Where's the danger, the on-the-edge-of-your-seat tension when fighting foes like Dragotha when the characters have insurances like this? I don't want to offend the gamers considering this option for their games, but this sounds boring and unstylish to me. I for sure wouldn't want to have this option within my game because the whole all-or-nothing-feel would be lost. I can even imagine characters using their own death in a tactical way because they know that they'll live on in their clone-bodies anyway...
Okay, the same could be said about ressurection, but there're certain aspects that doesn't make this a sure thing (like the possibility of a TPK with noone left alive to rescue).
And how should these guys even complete the AP with all the important items missing (okay, this assumes that a TPK takes place...)? No, as a DM i'd never allow this....
Oh, and if i hijacked this thread in any way, i'm really sorry but i couldn't resist....:)
Fair enough Absinth. I've never been a huge fan of the clone spell--always seemed a bit sci fi to me. For better or worse, it has a long tradition in D&D though--Tenser himself would not be alive to appear in Age of Worms if not for the one clone he hid in a place that he thought could not be found, a place that escaped the thoroughness even of his enemy Rary the Traitor.
But looking at Dragotha's stat bloc made me think about what happens to the campaign in the event that Dragotha wins a decisive victory--a distinct possibility, given the toughness of the tabernacle and its master.
I suppose one could always just leave things there. Eleven of Twelve modules of the campaign is pretty good, if the PCs and their gamers managed to make it that far. The heroes died a brave death, resisting the forces of evil with all they had--which wasn't enough. No one was left alive to compose an epic poem to commemorate their heroic, but ultimately futile efforts. The Age of Worms has overtaken the world, and those few who remain alive have neither the knowledge of the battle nor the leisure to contemplate its import. They know only that they must flee, as far as they possibly can, and hope that the gaze of the Worm that Walks does not follow them to the ends of the Oerth.
Guess I have a soft spot for the good guys, even if it takes some distasteful spellcraft, and perhaps a bit of eucatastrophe (as Tolkien termed the strangely unheroic ending of Frodo's quest to destroy the Ring) on their part to prevail. Maybe I'll have that manipulative wizard Tenser take some flesh samples from the PCs while they're asleep--he certainly has no qualms about cloning, after all.
For reference, Absinth, the clone spell is in the PHB.
Clone
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One clone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original’s physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.
To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting. Once the spell is cast, the duplicate must be grown in a laboratory for 2d4 months.
When the clone is completed, the original’s soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical with the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including the loss of one level or 2 points of Constitution (if the original was a 1st-level character). If this Constitution adjustment would give the clone a Constitution score of 0, the spell fails. If the original creature has lost levels since the flesh sample was taken and died at a lower level than the clone would otherwise be, the clone is one level below the level at which the original died.
The spell duplicates only the original’s body and mind, not its equipment.
A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved.
Material Component: The piece of flesh and various laboratory supplies (cost 1,000 gp).
Focus: Special laboratory equipment (cost 500 gp).
I like the possibility of what could happen in this situation. The players find themselves in the wormy new age, now fighting a battle uphill to try and reverse the Age of Worms. I think that would be interesting enough to put aside the "You're getting sci-fi in my fantasy" worries, IMHO.
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Hmm, okay, i think i changed my opinion on this a little...
But i'd do this in the style one of the previous posters suggested with Tenser collecting flesh samples without the PC's knowledge (ouch!)...
And then i'd only make use of this option if a TPK happens.
Russell Jones is right, a Midnight-styled epic campaign where the Age Of Worms hasn't been prevented could be really interesting (or depressing, depends on DM & players).
If only one character dies and the other PC's get out alive (with all the important items) i would settle for classic ressurrection.
But even if cloning is used in a stylish way i think it could change the perception of danger for the characters. The players might assume that Tenser always has an ace like this up his sleeve and might play that way...
The cloning-option has Deus Ex Machina written all over...
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Well, the fight lasted 5 rounds, and they crushed Dragotha. Without the shards of Balakarde's soul, they would have been hammered, but, as it was, the Mage blew away Dragothas defenses, and they pretty much pummelled him to death. They were laying about 250 a round, and he could only heal 150. Let's hope Kyuss provides more of a challenge :)
The cloning-option has Deus Ex Machina written all over...
This is certainly true. However, deus ex machina is almost a necessity if you want to run the rest of the campaign in the event of a TPK at this point. Anyhow, one supposes that the situation might warrant some sort of divine intervention. At 19th level or so, the party is the last best hope to defeat Kyuss and the Age of Worms--there may not be another 19th level party available on the entire continent. So, it's not inconceivable that divine machinations would be undertaken to bring them back.
Another alternative would be to change the ending of LoLR, making the dream sequence into a mere vision of the heroes whose rearguard battle to the death enabled the concealment of Dragotha's phylactery. Then, if one of the climactic battles results in a TPK, you can pull the "it was only a dream" schtick and allow the party to reset from the point where they last slept.
In the end, it's up to the individual DM, I suppose, and if you, the DM, in your capacity as omniscient and omnipotent uber-creator decide not to intervene when luck fails spectacularly for the PCs and their quest turns to a heroic tragedy, then that's OK.
While cloning is a known option by my players, they've never used it before. For our campaign I could see one of the mages using this on themselves and I think this is a good plan. In the event of a TPK this will provide at least one 'original' character who can gather a new party together to face this threat. Lots of roleplaying opportunities here (albeit mainly for the survivor). Of course, 2d4 months to grow a clone may see that person return after the Age of Worms has come to pass.
After the Mother Worm killed most of the party in KotR, I expect a more cautious approach to combat so cloning may be undertaken by 1 or 2 of them.
On a side note, the Mother Worm encounter was horrific...it para'd 7 of them in the first round and the rest went downhill. The battle saw 4 character deaths & 1 NPC death (Wilmot). Imagine the survivors' relief when they won! Imagine the stunned looks of the players when Warduke (using dungeon's article) appeared standing on the ledge overlooking the cavern holding the body of their companion (slain Zeph mage), demanding the Hand of Vecna or they'd never see their companion again. Perfect time for that mercenary to make his move...MUHAHAHAhahaha...*ahem*, yes. That was a great way to end a session.
J-