I'm getting close to running the "Test of the Smoking Eye" chapter and I'm wondering what hooks/persuasions I could use to get my semi-ultragood party to go on this. As soon as they meed Kauraphon, the pally will 'detect evil' and refuse to do anything with him. I've got one character (a dark-hero archivist) pretty interested in the "smoking eye" stuff, so he shouldn't be a problem, but the rest of the party may.
Any suggestions on getting them to do this? I'm trying my best to run the AP verbatim.
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I'm getting close to running the "Test of the Smoking Eye" chapter and I'm wondering what hooks/persuasions I could use to get my semi-ultragood party to go on this. As soon as they meed Kauraphon, the pally will 'detect evil' and refuse to do anything with him.
I thought he had protected himself from such detection, but I could be wrong. Certainly the strongest incentive is the fact that the party has quite a long way to go to get back, and they're being offered something to do other than trudge on for mile after mile. Play to their egos (they're heroes! they need a challenge!)
I'm getting close to running the "Test of the Smoking Eye" chapter and I'm wondering what hooks/persuasions I could use to get my semi-ultragood party to go on this. As soon as they meed Kauraphon, the pally will 'detect evil' and refuse to do anything with him. I've got one character (a dark-hero archivist) pretty interested in the "smoking eye" stuff, so he shouldn't be a problem, but the rest of the party may.
Any suggestions on getting them to do this? I'm trying my best to run the AP verbatim.
In all of the SCAP, this is the hardest part to make work. In my opinion, it's weak premise and the outcome (again, in my opinion) is utterly predictable. Running this verbatim is tough because smart and/or paranoid players will want nothing to do with Kaurophon. If you coax them into following him, only to be betrayed in the end...well, I'd be a little upset as a player, too.
I have a paladin in my campaign and I'm sure he'll pull the same thing so this is how I'm going to handle it:
Some creatures are intrinsically evil -- they're evil just because of what they are. Kaurophon, with his fiendish ancestry, is one of those creatures. Evil is in his blood, his soul, his being. Regardless of his actual deeds and thoughts, he will radiate evil. These creatures may also radiate good (or neutral), if that's their true alignment.
In my campaign, Kaurophon is actually NOT going to be evil because I think it's a little too predictable for him to turn on the party. (I could just make Kaurophon not detect as evil, but I'd like the party to be continually waiting for a betrayal that will never come.)
Of course, that's not running the SCAP verbatim.
Have you considered a magic item that masks his alignment? Or you could put them on another plane, rather than just far away from home on their home plane. At that point, it's follow Kaurophon or wander through the wastes and hope you find your way home. (We'll ignore old Nabby the glabrezu being tied to the Prime Material for now...)
From a strict roleplaying perspective, you could just play up the "Yes, I'm evil. But we both need to go to the same place, and we need each other's help."
At that point the PCs don't really have too much choice. A good way to play, I believe, is for the PCs to know they will be betrayed (him being Evil, and all), but they also know they need his help.
During the adventure, really make sure that Kauraphon helps the party a lot at opportune moments. Eventually, human nature will kick in, and the party will "forget" that he is evil. Right about this time, play out the betrayal.
I'm considering this with my party, as its made up of some very pious Pholtans. They are fairly intelligent, however, and may be willing to forge a temporary alliance with Kaurophon with an understanding that once the final test is passed, its to the death to see who gets to rule the layer.
Isn't the main hook that he uses to entice the party to help him that he can take them someplace safe to rest and heal, and then he Plane Shifts the party to Occipitus and they're, like, 100 miles from safety, so it's going to be 3-4 days forced march through the Abyss before they can rest safely, and even that safe haven is infested with demons they have to kill before it's safe(r)?
I'm not sure where people are getting this "what will the party do when he betrays them in the end..." he's betraying them from the moment he takes them to Occipitus... I'm guessing he'll be dead shortly after they arrive, in my campaign.
At that point the PCs don't really have too much choice. A good way to play, I believe, is for the PCs to know they will be betrayed (him being Evil, and all), but they also know they need his help.
That's a great idea! The tension of, "When is the other shoe going to drop?" "But we still need him" would be very interesting. Hmmm...I may have to re-think how I'm going to approach this.
I should probably go back and re-read that plot hook since I'm wondering about it... my campaign is probably going to have a paladin in it, and my gaming group has a tradition of not trusting NPCs in situations like this: he just happens to show up to rescue them when they've been magically stranded in a desert. I'm guessing they're going to hoist their packs and start walking. How do I shoehorn them into the adventure?
I plan on having the party emerge in an arctic environment many-thousands-of-miles away. Coincidentally near the ruin of Karran-Kural. After all, the Starry Gate was meant as a quick transport between Spell Weaver outposts.
Kaurophon of course will refuse to transport them back to Cauldron. Thus, railroaded will they be. If they're smart enough, seeing the arctic ruins should help the PC Wizard with his teleport spells later in the campaign.
I'm skipping this adventure altogether and I'm going to present a desert adventure as the party travels back to Cauldron on foot to get them up to 12th level before the Soul Pillars. I don't have a problem with the Smoking Eye adventure itself, it just doesn't really fit.
My replacement adventure focuses on a volcano-forge run by fire giants, salamanders and hobgoblins that was supplying magical steel for construction of the soul cages. As the party explores the active volcano and discovers the massive forges sending rods of enchanted steel back to Cauldron, they will have a trail of evidence to follow and a when they arrive in Cauldron, Vhalantru will have a much better and compelling reason to try to assassinate them than just an arbitrary decision of "oops, they got too powerful" which is what was presented at the start of the "Secret of the Soul Cages."
I think that when they finally get back to the Prime Material Plane, a year or two will have passed in Cauldron. It will allow for Vhalantru's coming to power and pretty much any other changes I want to make.
Think of Link coming back to Hyrule in the Ocarina of Time, only to find that the world is a darker place than when he left.
The Smoking Eye adventure always seemed out of place for me when I first read it. In fact I was really disappointed. Only later when the Adimarchus came into play did the adventure find a place IMO. It was something that always bugged me just like the final 2/3 adventures in the path - they just felt disjointed or meaningless.
So.. what I tried to do is create a great deal of foreshadowing using a early Side Trek, then Triel, Fetor and finally a Cagewright all as cultists of the Smoking Eye. Using his foreshadowing should help with the motivation to go on the task but you are all right - following the evil fiend into the Abyss may be a stretch.
Maybe having the fiend (sorry forgot his name) assist the party earlier or even be rescued by the party and explain his a tale of woe would seem more plausible. If the fiend stated seemed self lothing and wanted nothing more than seek the secrets of the smoking eye to gain the power/ access the path to destroy his horrific fiendish father maybe the party would believe this far more.
Another option is to have the fiend claim to be an angel changed into a fiend and slowly succumming to the innate evil taint that the form posions him daily with. 'I am forever locked within this born vile infernal form but desire nothing more than to destroy the creature that imprisioned me into this evil shell'
Something along these lines may be more more belivable than what is currently presented otherwise Farewelltokings...can I have a copy of your adventure?:)
Delvesdeep