In the entries for the Spawn of Kyuss provided in issue #126 and Monster Manual II, there are mechanics for dealing with attached Kyuss worms. Is just me, or are these mechanics a little...lacking?
The worms have AC 10 and 1 hp, implying they can be attacked while attached (and killed by the touch of silver). But what happens when a PC swings his greataxe to kill a worm on his neck? That sounds dangerous! What if the PC wants to just grab the worm and pull it off, or squish it? What if a wizard want to blast the worms off his companion with magic missles? Burn them off with a torch?
Almost all of these issues came up when I ran the ending of EaBK (except the torch one) a little while ago. I ended up making the following rulings "on the fly" (I hope I did Monte Cook proud :P )
- You can attack the worms with a weapon at a -4 penalty to avoid taking a chunk out of yourself. It didn't come up, but I'm thinking that attacks with light weapons could be made without a penalty.
- A succussful melee touch atttack against AC 10 allows you to grab a worm and the grapple check to pull it off or squish it automatically succeeds (since the worms should have a grapple modifier of -16 - Str modifier). This should provoke attacks of opportunity -- something which I may have forgotten in my session (can't remember). Of course, the worms could have a racial bonus to grapple....
- I ruled that magic missles would work fine, killing one worm per missle without threat to the PC the worms are on.
- I also ruled that if a Spawn rolled high enough on a slam attack to hit the PC's touch AC, it successfully transferred a worm onto the PC, despite doing no damage. Without this rule, the enounter would have been a cakewalk.
The easiet route among these is pretty clear -- my PCs ended up pulling the worms off with touch attacks. My players were terrified of the worms getting into them (heh heh), but because of the easy touch attacks, there was never any real threat of that happening. The PCs just ended up spending a lot of their actions pulling worms off instead of attacking the Spawn, who weren't able to hit very often with their slams. In order to really have a shot at infecting a PC, there would need to be three Spawn teaming up on one PC, with some other monsters keeping the other PCs occupied.
I'm interesting in hearing how others are handling the Spawn worm mechanics, and if you think mine make sense.
I think I'd reduce the list of ways to remove the worms (although you're always going to get creative solutions and have to rule on the fly there)--flicking it off with a dagger or short sword works, as does picking it off and squishing it. Magic missile is a bit dubious, unless the shooter is close enough to see a fine worm crawling around.
If you want to make it more challenging, players have to make a spot check to notice a worm is on them. Also, you could rule under certain circumstances that the worm gets under clothing/armor and is thus hard to pick off without first undressing. (This last might be a bit rough, though, since the worms penetrate one round after transfer).
I think your assessment of the Spawn of Kyuss as a tactical challenge is correct--not overwhelming, but time-consuming due to actions spent picking worms--and dangerous if they can gang up. Most infections happen because of panic and failure to take the right measures.
But then, the point of the spawn is mostly to scare the willies out of them anyhow, not to turn half the party into spawn themselves. The worms do that quite nicely, even if they don't penetrate the skin.
Picking the worms off is basically a grapple check, and since they're basically unable to beat a PC's grapple check (-21 penalty for 1 Strength and Fine size), I'd simply call it an unarmed strike against AC10.
Picking the worms off is basically a grapple check, and since they're basically unable to beat a PC's grapple check (-21 penalty for 1 Strength and Fine size), I'd simply call it an unarmed strike against AC10.
This was my reasoning as well (though I went with unarmed touch attack rather than unarmed strike). But looking at the entry for stirges, they get a +12 racial bonus to grapple checks when attached. To remove them with a grapple, you must achieve a pin.
On the other hand, the worms only have 1 hp, and a successful grapple check against them, even just to start the grapple, would deal at least 1 point of non-lethal damage. So they would likely be knocked out and fall off.
I think I'd reduce the list of ways to remove the worms (although you're always going to get creative solutions and have to rule on the fly there)--flicking it off with a dagger or short sword works, as does picking it off and squishing it. Magic missile is a bit dubious, unless the shooter is close enough to see a fine worm crawling around.
If you want to make it more challenging, players have to make a spot check to notice a worm is on them. Also, you could rule under certain circumstances that the worm gets under clothing/armor and is thus hard to pick off without first undressing. (This last might be a bit rough, though, since the worms penetrate one round after transfer).
I like your idea of requiring a Spot check before a ranged attack (i.e., Magic Missle) can be used against such a small creature. On that note, shouldn't the AC for the worms be higher? They're Fine, which gives them a size modifier of +8. Even if their Dex mod while attached is -5, they should still be at AC 13.
But then, the point of the spawn is mostly to scare the willies out of them anyhow, not to turn half the party into spawn themselves. The worms do that quite nicely, even if they don't penetrate the skin.
Good point. But then again, I would like at least one worm to get inside a PC, just so the cleric can scramble to use Filge's silver operating instruments to remove the worm with a Heal check. :)
Yes, the campaign couldn't be the Age of Worms if the PCs don't have some intimate encounters with the worms themselves. You'll notice that in several of the later modules, though, they'll be practically bathing in the nasty things.
On that note, does anti-life shell keep the worms out, since technically they are vermin? That would be a potent defense later on when the party is dealing with wormswarms and creatures that can make area attacks with large numbers of worms!
Another twist you can add to make the encounter more challenging is this: assume that an attached worm is half buried into the flesh of the victim, so if they attempt to grab it and pull it off (using the easy-to-succeed touch attack / grapple check, etc.) the worm breaks in two, and the half still inside the flesh continues burrowing!! *evil grin*
The only option at this point is for the victim to take a dagger (or other sharp pointy thing) and stab themselves in order to dig the critter out, inflicting some small amount of damage (maybe 1d4 ?) in the process.
*spoilers*
i agree that to achieve maximum creepiness, you want to have at least ONE character have to scramble madly with a heal check or remove disease, etc. to save him as the squiggly is working its way into the PC's brain. IMC, however, the real danger came from the slow worms, rather than the worms on the spawn of kyuss. i would give them a break on the crawlies they can see, and wait for the excitement when the first slow worm goes down someone's gullet.
(IMC, btw, it happened when a PC had negative hit points and someone fed him a random potion, hoping it was CLW. tee hee. it's still the #1 thing the party remembers from EaBK.)
O
*cackling* I'm taking notes. My PC's are gonna murder me!!!
Another twist you can add to make the encounter more challenging is this: assume that an attached worm is half buried into the flesh of the victim, so if they attempt to grab it and pull it off (using the easy-to-succeed touch attack / grapple check, etc.) the worm breaks in two, and the half still inside the flesh continues burrowing!! *evil grin*The only option at this point is for the victim to take a dagger (or other sharp pointy thing) and stab themselves in order to dig the critter out, inflicting some small amount of damage (maybe 1d4 ?) in the process.
That *is* evil; however, I think ripping the worm in half does at least 1 hp of damage -- in which case, that worm is done. Of course, you could give them more hp, or ignore the hp.
On that note, does anti-life shell keep the worms out, since technically they are vermin?
I think they might count as undead. If you count them as vermin, though, then yeah, it's hedged out. It's a high level enough spell to warrant such a useful defence.
On that note, does anti-life shell keep the worms out, since technically they are vermin?I think they might count as undead. If you count them as vermin, though, then yeah, it's hedged out. It's a high level enough spell to warrant such a useful defence.
Somewhere in one of the modules I thought I read a statement to the effect that Kyuss' great genius was to devise a way for living creatures (worms) to transmit the curse of undeath. I could be mistaken, though. Any official opinions on this question?
As for snapping worms in half--most worms (annelids and nematodes, anyway) are so simple anatomically that cutting them in half doesn't kill them. Remember the old high school biology experiment of cutting an earthworm in half and watching both halves heal, regenerate, and go on about their business of burrowing?
Last sentence page 67 of Dungeon 134 indicates that James Jacobs, at least, views Kyuss worms as living creatures that serve as vectors for the curse of undeath. In the absence of a different ruling by higher authority, I plan on allowing antilife shell to repel the worms.
The Ecology of the Spawn of Kyuss makes it very clear that Kyuss worms are in fact vermin. Antilife shell works on them, as does repel vermin.
As for snapping worms in half--most worms (annelids and nematodes, anyway) are so simple anatomically that cutting them in half doesn't kill them. Remember the old high school biology experiment of cutting an earthworm in half and watching both halves heal, regenerate, and go on about their business of burrowing?
I guess the worms should have DR 20/bludgeoning then... ;)