I've run Jzadirune before, and didn't really take full advantage of the skulks residing there. This time around, I've been using them to haunt the PCs every step of the way, but a bit of debate arose as to just how effective peerless camoflage is, and I'd love some help...
How would other DMs on this site interpret the snipe function of the hide skill. Would skulks take a - 20? Or does there ability to move, run, etc. with no penalties allow them to snipe with impunity?
Also, do they need cover to hide? Or can they just press up against the wall in a semi to dark room, and blend right in unnoticed (at least with a +22 hide, you would think unnoticed....)
Please, I need a lot of advice on this one, so I can restore order with a few of my players.
I would say that just because their peerless camouflage lets them move and run without taking the penalty to their Hide skill, that doesn't mean they can Hide in Plain Sight. That's a whole other ability altogether. In order to make a Hide check, they still have to have cover or concealment. Same goes for the sniping; the ability says nothing about negating the 20 point penalty for sniping. Try not to insert more abilities into their Peerless Camouflage than it actually describes, because if you do you can easily make them more powerful than they are intended to be. Skulks make perfect ambushers: hide in cover, strike with surprise, flee to find new cover, repeat. If they're cornered somewhere with no cover and no darkness to conceal them, the PCs can and will toast them; and you should let them. But make them work for it.
If they're cornered somewhere with no cover and no darkness to conceal them, the PCs can and will toast them; and you should let them. But make them work for it.
I agree. The skulks can be deadly if they have the advantage, but if you take that advantage away, they are easily killed.
The way skulks are generally set up is to hide, stab someone a few times, then run off and repeat. These hit-and-run tactics have frustrated the *%(($#))** out of my players, but the skulks have such low hit points that even a lucky hit here and there will give the party the win, simply through attrition.
I didn't think to use the sniping rules myself. I'll have to brush up on them for this weekend, when my new SCAP game starts up.
...this weekend, when my new SCAP game starts up.
New SCAP game? What happened to the old one?
M@
I just ran this a couple nights ago and I used the -20 to their hide after they tried to snipe them from the shadows. With a +22 on their hide it still makes them pretty darn effective at hiding against first level characters. The only one that really spotted them after they sniped most of the time was the scout.
...this weekend, when my new SCAP game starts up.New SCAP game? What happened to the old one?
M@
I'm running two concurrent games - one every week and another every-other week. I've got too many players to handle just one game. That, and I'm a masochist.
I'm running two concurrent games - one every week and another every-other week. I've got too many players to handle just one game. That, and I'm a masochist.
lucky bastard
Yeah, lucky is the world. I run SH every other week with my group, while on the off week one of the others in the group runs a campaign. We pretty much switch off campaigns every week. So it will take twice as long as normal to finish it for us. Fortunately it gives 2 weeks to prepare.
The skulks excel at hit and run tactics. I used them to great effect that way. They'd hide and make flanking sneak attacks, then run off and hide again.
Just don't abuse their hiding ability. My group first tried the SCAP with one of my former players running the game. It was his insistance that they were untrackable, even by a ranger with a good track skill and rolling a natural 20 that led to his being a former player in our group. That was just one of the things that led to his being ejected from our group but it's still a big sore point with the guy who was playing the ranger. Every now and then he'll get a 20 while tracking (different character) and sarcastically ask me if he found anything.
M@
Thanks for the feedback. I'll start implementing that -20 on the snipe attack. I can appreciate game balance here, as without it, they would be extremely difficult for a low level party to overcome, but when I reason it out in my head, (game mechanics aside for a moment) I kind of feel like the skulks (as I understand them) would be able to snipe and hide, about as easy if not easier than run and hide.
In fact, their ability to hide while on the move, really doesn't mean much to me, unless it somehow includes at least a bit of 'hide in plain sight'. What does it matter if they are running, if nobody has LOS? The only factor then would be move silently, and hide isn't even involved. Once they do move into someone's field of vision, what then?
Anyway, I'm implementing the -20, and am going to pay close attention to shadowing in the dungeon, so I can be sure they have at least partial cover necessary to hide. Too bad they don't have max ranks in bluff, then that would solve all my problems. They would be able to actually use that hide while moving ability to some degree, without giving away their location.