hello guys,
can somenone tell me how silence work when its cast on a fighter who then attacks a few clerics and wizards? are they each separately allowed a Will save to be able to cast normally and not be effected by the silence?
or are they unable to cast until they are in the radius of the spell which moves with the fighter?
Silence spell description: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silence.htm
thanks for your help!
aha... thanks! what do you think about rolling saves each round they remain in the area? or one save negates the whole effect?
bests,
gabor
It could also be that since the fighter is a willing target (no save)there would be no save for the mage and cleric since none of them are the target of the spell when they are in the radius.
Oxi
It could also be that since the fighter is a willing target (no save)there would be no save for the mage and cleric since none of them are the target of the spell when they are in the radius.
Oxi
I agree, the silence affects the cleric and the mage and they do not receive a saving throw because the fighter is the target and he is a willing.
It could also be that since the fighter is a willing target (no save)there would be no save for the mage and cleric since none of them are the target of the spell when they are in the radius.
Oxi
exactly how i think it should work :) i think my pcs will steal the combo but whateva.... :)
but this way any wizard can be killed by a silence bearer fighter who totally cancels his or her spellcasting abilities. this is a bit overpower... let us think about this a bit more... :)
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It does, it is one of the greatest, deadliest spells if used correctly. Luckily most of the time my player's use it rather too early.
scene:
Standing by the door, that is guarded on the other side, they cast silence, it's a globe so the floor underneath them or above them or even the room next to them can be inside the globe. Well, the baddies notice afore they enter that suddenly they can't hear a thing anymore. Byebye, surprise
Better than casting it on the fighter (who then has to mime the phrase "heal me!" or anything else he wants to say, which can be tricky in full plate) cast it on a tanglefoot bag and lob it into the spellcasters.
I must remember to do this later in my campaign: Let one of the bad guys cast silence on a monk, which in turn tumbles to the PC mage and grapple him.... ah genious :-)
The wizard/cleric are not targets of the spell and as such they get no save. Yeah, it's a powerful tactic.
PandaGaki: Silence is an emanation effect so it is blocked by anything that provides total cover - doors, walls, floor, ceiling.
In a confined space, this tactic can backfire rather quickly. If the spellcaster on the opposing side moves toward the party spellcaster, the spellcaster is either allowed to directly engage the party spellcaster, or the fighter negates both the opposing party's spellcaster and their own. Even without silent spell, at higher levels, this tactic, while still useful, gets less devestating. The opposing spellcaster to withdraw from the area of the fighter, dimension door further out of range, and blast everyone with a lightning bolt, meaning that the tactic likely saved you two rounds worth of spellcasting from the enemy wizard, which is helpful, but doesn't completely neutralize him.
Also, be careful of this tactic . . . the wizard withdraws down a long narrow passageway, warrior follows him. Wizard gets far enough back to cast hold person. The fighter is held in the middle of the passageway, silenced, blocking his party, and again, the wizard just starts teeing off at the party behind the silent barrier with his spells.
So there are ways around these things. Still a good tactic though.
the silence combo works only in a confined area or if the spellcaster is held at one place. i think, after i show my players this trick, they will execute all evil wizards in a 500 mile radius with this. it won't take them 2 minutes to figure out the "tanglefootbag/entangle/whatever to hold the wizard in one place" combo.
huhh anyway... PCs are like that... :)
The wizard/cleric are not targets of the spell and as such they get no save. Yeah, it's a powerful tactic.
PandaGaki: Silence is an emanation effect so it is blocked by anything that provides total cover - doors, walls, floor, ceiling.
It says in the spell description that the target gets a Will save. Now, I understand this to mean the target of the spell being cast. However, if a player walks in to a permanent silence spell cast in a room they get a Will save. I believe if a fighter were to run up to a mage with a Silence spell on him the mage would get a saving throw.
I think youre trying to make this work just because the rules dont specifically cover it.
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The spell affects the environment, not the subject, hence once the spell is in effect there is no saving throw. Note that the spell description says:
'Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area.'
No mention of a save. The only time a save is mentioned is when the target of the point of origin is chosen.
Im going to poll Wizards and get the official word.
If anyone allows their players to use such a tactic I would hope your NPCs would do the same as well as having your bosses set up permanent silence spells to foil your party.
In my opinion the mage in question would get a saving throw similar to him walking in to an area of affect spell of any sort.
Talon is right. There's a saving throw when, and only when, you cast the silent spell on an unwilling target, so that he becomes the center of the radius (i.e.: the effect radius moves with the target).
Also, I believe if he succeeds, the silent spell is centered where the target was standing (and doesn't move around with the target).
Anyone and everything within the spells' effect radius is silenced. No saving throw.
Ultradan
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Also, I believe if he succeeds, the silent spell is centered where the target was standing (and doesn't move around with the target).
This is how it worked in 1st and 2nd Edition I think (I wasn't around for 3.0, no idea on anything in that ruleset). There's nothing in the description that indicates it works that way in 3.5. The more I think about it though, the less sure I am about my interpretation, though to my knowledge most people play it that way. I'm interested in what WotC says about it.
Yep, this combo in one form or another has been around since I strated playing first edition.
From the SRD:
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.
In 2nd Edition Silence was much more dangerous, even at higher levels, because there were no metamagic feats to make a spell silent, so the only counter was to have and prepare spells with no verbal components.
I would also like to know what WotC has to say about this... I am thinking about allowing a save each round within the area (as if the affected characters would harden their will to be able to push a squeeze a few words out loud). otherwise the silence spell would become similar to an antimagic field... there should be a spell called Total Silence set on 4th or 5th spelllevel, which does the same as the one now.
I thought the spell description was pretty clear - if cast on someone, they get a chance to save if they want to, and that's it. Anyone else walking into the zone of its effect just discovers it the hard way, there is no save. Otherwise it would be the 'Silence 15' radius, unless you save' - and if that's the case, I'm going to give a whole bunch of nasties the chance to save against spells when they walk into the area of effect of a darkness spell. And can I give Strahd a save versus spells for the Daylight spell as well?
Reggie - who is sure that if players and DMs can come up with nasty uses for spells, they should be able to use them - because someone else will always come up with another combo to counter them!
I would also like to know what WotC has to say about this... I am thinking about allowing a save each round within the area (as if the affected characters would harden their will to be able to push a squeeze a few words out loud). otherwise the silence spell would become similar to an antimagic field... there should be a spell called Total Silence set on 4th or 5th spelllevel, which does the same as the one now.
From Wizards:
This is from the FAQ. It's answering a question about how a golem's spell resistance works, and it uses the silence spell as an example.
"The silence spell provides a better example of how a golem’s magic immunity (and spell resistance in general) works. You can cast silence on a creature, and when you do so, spell resistance applies (see the spell description). A silence spell automatically fails if you try to cast it on a golem. Once a silence spell is operating, silence reigns throughout the emanation the spell creates. If a golem moves into the emanation, the golem still cannot hear or make any noise."
I hereby present myself in supplication to those with obviously higher INT scores :p
Good thing my players are dumb and lack imagination! J/K
You might consider making it a house rule that would allow for a Concentration check of DC 30+spell level would allow someone to cast the spell without the verbal part. This way it would be like having the metamagic feat when you would actually be able to pull it off, and STILL make it an advantage to have that feat so you wouldn't have to even make the check.
I will allow a Will save against the spell's effect each round. This will nicely demonstrate the struggle to speak our loud. and it is a low DC spell anyway. Maybe it will be heightened or something. We will see ... :)