In Gathering of Winds, the shadow spider Flycatcher is supposed to use hit and run tacticts against the PC's in order to kidnap one of them. The problem is this: shadow walk does not allow you to simply appear next to someone. In reality, you appear several hundred feet away from where you are trying to go. Also, it only works in shadowy illumination, so if the party even has a torch, much less a more powerful light spell, Flycatcher can't shadow walk within twenty feet of them. Am I missing something here? This seems to make him a pretty ineffective adversary, and will reduce him to simply lumbering out to melee with the group when they find his lair.
Creative Director
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In Gathering of Winds, the shadow spider Flycatcher is supposed to use hit and run tacticts against the PC's in order to kidnap one of them. The problem is this: shadow walk does not allow you to simply appear next to someone. In reality, you appear several hundred feet away from where you are trying to go. Also, it only works in shadowy illumination, so if the party even has a torch, much less a more powerful light spell, Flycatcher can't shadow walk within twenty feet of them. Am I missing something here? This seems to make him a pretty ineffective adversary, and will reduce him to simply lumbering out to melee with the group when they find his lair.
The shadow spider is one of several monsters from the Monster Manual II that are unfortunately saddled with unclear and/or awkward mechanics. In its entry in that book, the spider's tactics of leaping out of the shadows to grab victims and then hauling them into the Plane of Shadow are detailed, yet it's "shadow jumping" ability is summed up as shadow walk at will. The cynic in me believes this happened late in the book's production so that the entry would fit nicely on one page.
In any event, if you need a more precise mechanic to run Flycatcher as Wolf intended him to be run, I suggest giving him the shadowdancer's shadow jump ability (DMG p195) as if he were a 10th level shadowdancer.
Of course... the poor shadow spider, as written in the MMII, is certainly not a CR 12 creature... with an AC of 13, it won't last long in a fight. Which is why I gave Flycatcher the bracers of armor +5.
Hmmm... If I had the power to turn back time and had the space to do this in the issue, I might actually just rebuild Flycatcher as a phase spider sorcerer with some levels of shadow dancer thrown in, cutting out the unfortunately designed MMII shadow spider out of the equation entirely.
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If it wouldn't bother you, James, would it be alright if I cooked up a CR 13 version of the phase spider sorceror Flycatcher for you and other members on the board? I ask for two reasons: One, is it alright to post here? Two, it was your creation and your follow-up idea, so I don't want to steal your thunder or take any credit away from your idea.
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If it wouldn't bother you, James, would it be alright if I cooked up a CR 13 version of the phase spider sorceror Flycatcher for you and other members on the board? I ask for two reasons: One, is it alright to post here? Two, it was your creation and your follow-up idea, so I don't want to steal your thunder or take any credit away from your idea.
I personally would love to see this done. I hope James agrees.
The trouble with a phase spider having sorcerer levels is phase spiders can't speak, so no verbal spell components. Also, sorcerer levels don't give our phase spider the same "flavor" as Flycatcher -- who can't cast spells.
I whipped up a quick classed-phase spider. Assuming rogue and shadowdancer are associated class levels (normally they wouldn't be for a Magical Beast, but phase spiders rely on hit-and-run sneak tactics), this guy is a CR 12. I didn't give him any equipment -- bracers of armor would help with his low-ish AC.
Phase spider rogue 2/shadowdancer 5
N Large magical beast
Init +9
Senses: darkvision 60, low-light vision, Spot +5, Listen +1
Languages: Common (cannot speak)
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 12; Dodge, Mobility, improved uncanny dodge
hp 109 (12 HD)
Fort +9, Ref +16, Will +5; evasion, defensive roll (1/day)
Spd 40 ft, climb 20 ft.
Melee: bite +13 (1d6+6 plus poison)
Base Atk +10; Grp +18
Atk options: sneak attack (1d6)
Spell-like Abilities: silent image (1/day)
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 21, Con 19, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
SQ: defensive roll (1/day) ethereal jaunt, evasion, hide in plain sight, shadow jump (20 ft./day) summon shadow, trapfinding, improved uncanny dodge
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Mobility
Skills: Climb +12 (8 rnks), Move Silently +14 (9 rnks), Hide +15 (10 rnks), Perform (dance) +4 (5 rnks), Spot +5 (4 rnks)
Well how about a half phase spider/half aranea. That would be a good fit for the tactics it should use. A little strange, but not out of the question. It could even be a strange new sub-race of aranea that lives on the plane of shadow. Hey, I'm just spit-balling here.
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Hmm, it is very true that phase spiders cannot speak at all. Personally, I was looking to evolve him into a 14 HD, Huge phase spider first (to mimic Flycatcher's size), which still leaves 4 CR to work with, especially wih unassociated caster levels...
James, any insight on how to make a phase spider cast spells beyond tons of Still Spell?
Hmm, somewhat hard for it to communicate with the party either, and Rary's Telepathic bond is 5th level....
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One could certainly build Flycatcher with any host of Prestige Classes- As James had expressed his variant idea, I was shooting to make a character based almost entirely on the Core books, so that any individual could freely use them in their AoW campaign.
After all, aside from the occassional new creature or non-Core book reference, the Adventure Path is written to be run with only the three main books.
Otherwise, one could certainly explore the use of the Sudden Metamgaic feats or even the Wu Jen's spell secrets for facilitating a mute spellcaster.
Perhaps if I knew why Flycatcher was made a sorceror, then I would understand the proper way to design an alternative...
As Hide, Move Silently, and Perform aren't class skills for sorcerors, it'd take a lot of cross-classing to meet the prereqs, though the 14 racial HD would at least bring the cross-class cap up to the right point. Hmm... A smart & charasmatic phase spider with 6 sorceror and 1 shadowdancer might do the trick (CR 9+3+1= 13), though its a convaluted road to that end, and certainly would be expedited with Rogue levels (nonassociated or or otherwise).
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Creative Director
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Regarding alternate Flycatchers (or alternate NPCs for any adventure in Dungeon); Post Away!
As for Flycatcher... maybe the best thing to do would simply to be to redesign the shadow spider itself to make it more accurately reflect a CR 12 threat that can do a shadow jump type trick. I generally shy away from making such drastic changes to 3.0 monsters in Dungeon, choosing instead (usually) to replace a trouble monster with something else from the MM or one of the 3.5 books.
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Regarding alternate Flycatchers (or alternate NPCs for any adventure in Dungeon); Post Away!
As for Flycatcher... maybe the best thing to do would simply to be to redesign the shadow spider itself to make it more accurately reflect a CR 12 threat that can do a shadow jump type trick. I generally shy away from making such drastic changes to 3.0 monsters in Dungeon, choosing instead (usually) to replace a trouble monster with something else from the MM or one of the 3.5 books.
I have to agree with you on the redesign notion, James, I always assumed they neglected a "1" before the 4 in the Shadow spiders natural armor heading... it makes for a natural armor of +14 and an AC of 23, which is far more reasonable for such a large creature, esp. since a Monstrous Huge Spider has a natural armor of +5.
In the same way, the Dire Elephant had a natural armor bonus that was subpar compared to an elephant advanced to Gargantuan size... I like the concept of the Shadowdancer shadow jump ability, possibly allowing it at will with a distance cap of 160'?
Anyways, here are two write-ups for Pahse Spider Flycatcher.. note the rogue has no way to communicate with a party on his own.
“Flycatcher I” CR 13
Advanced 15-HD Phase Spider, sorcerer 6/shadowdancer 1
NE Huge magical beast; MM 207
Init +8; Senses Darkvision 60’, Low-Light; Spot +0, Listen +0
Languages none
AC 24, touch 12, flat-footed 20; -2 size, +4 Dex, +7 natural, +5 armor; Dodge, Mobility
hp 234 (22 HD)
Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +10
Spd 40’, climb 20’
Melee Bite +23 (1d8+10 plus poison)
Special Attack Ethereal Jaunt, Hide in Plain Sight, Poison
Attack Options Combat Reflexes, Spring Attack
Space/Reach 15’/10’
Base Atk +18; Grp +33
Spells Known (CL 6th)
(4/day) 3rd- tongues
(6/day) 2nd- see invisibility, web (15)
(7/day) 1st- comprehend languages, ray of enfeeblement (+20 ranged touch), shield, true strike
(6/day) 0- dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 13), mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of frost (+20 ranged touch), read magic
Abilities Str 24, Dex 19, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17
SQ summon familiar (none)
Feats Ability Focus (poison), Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Mobility, Spring Attack
Skills Bluff +9, Climb +15, Concentration +8 (+12 casting defensively), Hide +6, Move Silently +22, Perform (dance) +8
Possessions bracers of armor +5
Ethereal Jaunt (Su) Flycatcher can shift from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action). This ability is otherwise identical with ethereal jaunt (CL 15th)
Hide in Plain Sight (Su) Flycatcher can use the Hide skill while observed or in the open provided he is within 10’ of shadow
Poison (Ex) Injury, Fortitude DC 25, initial and secondary damage 1d8 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based
“Flycatcher II” CR 13
Advanced 14-HD Phase Spider, rogue 2/shadowdancer 2
NE Huge magical beast; MM 207
Init +10; Senses Darkvision 60’, Low-Light; Spot +10, Listen +0
Languages none
AC 25, touch 14, flat-footed 19; -2 size, +6 Dex, +6 natural, +5 armor; Dodge, Mobility
hp 199 (18 HD)
Resistance evasion, uncanny dodge
Fort +15, Ref +21, Will +4
Spd 40’, climb 20’
Melee Bite +21 (1d8+10 plus poison plus Snatch)
Special Attack Ethereal Jaunt, Hide in Plain Sight, Poison
Attack Options Combat Reflexes, Snatch, Spring Attack
Space/Reach 15’/10’
Base Atk +16; Grp +31
Abilities Str 24, Dex 23, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 13
Feats Ability Focus (poison), Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Snatch, Spring Attack
Skills Bluff +7, Climb +15, Hide +16, Move Silently +24, Perform (dance) +6, Spot +10
Possessions bracers of armor +5
Ethereal Jaunt (Su) Flycatcher can shift from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action). This ability is otherwise identical with ethereal jaunt (CL 15th)
Hide in Plain Sight (Su) Flycatcher can use the Hide skill while observed or in the open provided he is within 10’ of shadow
Poison (Ex) Injury, Fortitude DC 25, initial and secondary damage 1d8 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based
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Creative Director
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In the same way, the Dire Elephant had a natural armor bonus that was subpar compared to an elephant advanced to Gargantuan size... I like the concept of the Shadowdancer shadow jump ability, possibly allowing it at will with a distance cap of 160'?
A shadow spider's AC should actually be around AC 28... if it isn't, it should have a LOT more hit points and/or some nice damage reduction...
As for the dire elephant... he's another problem monster. Why? Simple; he has a climb speed.
If a dire elephant shows up in an adventure, chances are VERY GOOD I'll be changing it to a wooly mammoth or an advanced elephant or something like that.
As for the dire elephant... he's another problem monster. Why? Simple; he has a climb speed.
If a dire elephant shows up in an adventure, chances are VERY GOOD I'll be changing it to a wooly mammoth or an advanced elephant or something like that.
Didn't you know? The Dire Elephant's chosen method of attack is to climb trees and then leap down on to their prey. ;)
My personal favorite is the Admantine Horror (i think that's it), which has... What was it? Disentegrate, Implosion and some other save or die SLA, all at will... On a CR 9 creature. (The clincher, of course, being that it has no Concentrate score, so negating it is fairly simple. Actually, I was happy to see that it wasn't the Admantine Horror that appeared in The Clockwork Fortess... Hmm... Was the Brass Man originally an Admantine Horror? I wonder.)
I really appreciate all the prompt and insightful replies. Thanks to all, especially James!
I came across the same problem that Joseph Jolly did and found this thread while researching. I wasn't that excited about the phase spider options, nor was I too interested in class levels for Flycatcher. I prevailed upon the wonderful expertise of Moff Rimmer to help create a different Flycatcher that better suited my needs.
To start with, he created an advance bebilith with the Shadow template from the Manual of the Planes. You can find that creature here. I decided to alter it a little bit further to better capture the hit and run tactics of Flycatcher. Hopefully I haven't created anything too unbalanced here.
Changes that I made: I removed both Improved Natural Armor feats for Multiattack and Ability Focus (abduction) which leaves Flycatcher with a pretty weak AC, though better than the original. I also kept the improved grab option from the original Flycatcher.
May you find this to be useful! Once again, a thousand thanks to Moff Rimmer for doing the lion's share of the work here.
Flycatcher
Demon (Bebilith -- sorta)
CE Huge Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)
Init +5;
Senses Darkvision 60', Low-Light Vision, Scent; Listen +15, Spot +16
AC 22 (+1 Dex, -2 Size, +13 Natural); Touch 9, Flat-Footed 23
hp 175 (14 HD) ; Fast Healing 2, DR 10/good
Resist Cold resistance 19
Fort +19, Ref +12, Will +12 (Evasion)
Speed 60 ft., Climb 30 ft.
Melee Bite +21 (2d6+9 + Poison)
2 Claws +19/+19 (2d4+4)
Ranged Web +13
Space/Reach 15 ft. x 15 ft./10 ft.
Base Atk +14; Grp +35
Atk Options Poison, Rend Armor, Web, Improved Grab (2 claws), Abduction
Def Options Evasion, shadow blend
Special Actions telepathy 100 ft.
Abilities Str 28, Dex 12, Con 26, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 13
SQ +2 Luck Bonus to all saves, fast healing 2, evasion
Feats Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Ability Focus (Abduction), Power Attack
Skills Climb +23, Diplomacy +5, Hide +17, Jump +33, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (the planes) +2, Listen +15, Move Silently +24, Search +16, Sense Motive +13, Spot +16, Survival +11
Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 25, initial damage 1d6 Con, secondary damage 2d6 Con. Bebilith venom is highly perishable, losing its potency and becoming inert, foul-smelling goo almost as soon as it comes into contact with air. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Rend Armor (Ex): If Flycatcher hits with both claw attacks, it pulls apart any armor worn by its foe. This attack deals 4d6+18 points of damage to the opponent's armor. Creatures not wearing armor are unaffected by this special attack. Armor reduced to 0 hit points is destroyed. Damaged armor may be repaired with a successful Craft (armorsmithing) check.
Web (Ex): Flycatcher can throw a web up to four times per day. This is similar to an attack with a net but has a maximum range of 30 feet, with a range increment of 10 feet. This attack is effective against targets of up to Gargantuan size. The web anchors the target in place, allowing no movement. An entangled creature can escape with a DC 25 Escape Artist check or burst the web with a DC 25 Strength check. The web has 14 hit points and hardness 0. There is a 75% chance that the webbing will not burn if any sort of fire is applied to it (check each round).
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, Flycatcher must hit with both claw attacks. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to abduct the foe the following round.
Abduction (Su): Flycatcher can transport other creatures to the Plane of Shadow, similar to the spell plane shift but with access only to the Plane of Shadow. Due to it's innate connection to the Plane of Shadow, Flycatcher does not suffer problems with accuracy when using this ability. It can bring up one Large or smaller creature with it each time it uses this ability. It can shift unwilling targets as well, although an unwilling victim can attempt a DC 20 Will save to resist being transported. The save DC is Charisma-based. (caster level 12th).
Shadow Blend (Su): In any conditions other than full daylight, a shadow bebilith can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, will.
Skills: Shadow Bebiliths gain a +8 racial bonus on Hide checks and a +6 bonus on Move Silently checks.
It looks like you have the situation well in hand with flycatcher. I also was a little bit confused (and my players were a little bit angry). I just ruled that it jumps into a shadow near the PCs, but not too close, and uses his rather high hide and move silent skill to grab a PC from behind and run off with him. And sure, I didn't give the grabbed cohort any save. Flycatcher ran off, bit the prisoner so that she was paralysed and jumped away with her, before the PCs could hack him to pieces entirely. Grab and Run monsters do not work so often and if it is a plot hook, you will have to be unfair as a GM. That's my experience.
Thank Belfur. I hope that it works out. I don't mind doing a little bit of handwaving as a DM to make things work like they're supposed to, but Flycatcher seemed like a pretty big leap for me to make as a newish DM. I don't mind too much if his hit and run tactics don't work overly well, but I'm about to go after the paladin's mount and I'm really hoping he doesn't make his will save.
The players are currently squished between the black pudding and the salamander with fire elemental who just appeared on scene. By having Flycatcher pick this moment to abduct the horse I'm hoping to send the players into conniptions. And hoping that Flycatcher might get the 2 or 3 rounds he needs to make a clean getaway.