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Hey all,
The group I'm DMing just finished The Whispering Cairn. I think they enjoyed it. It's a party of 6, and they actually had an easier time with Filge and his undead than they did with the Wind Warriors. They killed Filge outright but found the note and the jar with the Kyuss worm. Having charmed Kullen into revealing Filge and the grave-robbing work, the party is actually making good on their promise to return with his eyes!! BTW, they also released the owlbear in the wild rather than selling it off, although they suspected it would not survive.
But my main reason for posting is to get some feedback from those who have run their groups through 3FoE - and those who decided to do something else instead. Like many others, I'm underwhelmed and worry that it will be a drag for my players, and the writing and errors don't help me get excited about it.
So, any advice on what the PCs should learn and accomplish before beginning Encounter at Blackwall Keep would be greatly appreciated. It will allow me to do a major revamp (or complete replace) of this adventure that fits well with the FR version of the AP. Having killed Filge etc., I'm thinking of having of the bridge between parts 1 and 3 be in town, more roleplay with Smenk, his thugs, and/or town officials than just full-on hack and slash (one of the PCs is a garrison soldier, so that might come into play too). I also am thinking of having the cultists be primarily Banites who hold all the real power given that the other two gods are still dead. And I would probably would have the Dourstone Mine be a temporary meeting place rather ill-suited to the grand plans of the cult, rather than this idea of three sub-cults each having their own section (two of them being well carved out) of the area. Thoughts?
Of course, I will continue to read through it carefully, but those of you who have moved on to further segments of the AP will have the bigger picture.
Thanks,
Doug
If you have access to "N5 - Under Illefarn", a 1e module that might be available in PDF form, I might suggest you use the major adventure that takes place under Mount Illefarn.
In that adventure, something strange is afoot, as the river that flows by Daggerford turns a horrid green. (I might suggest in this case it turns a horrid green and little green worms are seen swimming in its depths.)
If the PCs go off to investigate, they discover there's a dwarven stronghold under Mount Illefarn and overlooking a quarry nestled in a bend in the river known as the Laughing Hollow. The stronghold is pretty neat, with multiple tiny levels and lots of connections between them ... a great 3-D dungeon.
In the original module, there are three warring parties in the mines: orcs & goblins, a necromancer and his undead, and the dwarves from Daggerford who are trying to reclaim the mine.
In this case, I'd replace the necromancer with the Faceless One and give him allies from the other two branches of the Cult. In addition to helping the dwarves reclaim their stronghold, the PCs can find out most of what was in the last section of TFoE.
Just a thought,
--Eric
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If you have access to "N5 - Under Illefarn", a 1e module that might be available in PDF form, I might suggest you use the major adventure that takes place under Mount Illefarn.
Thanks, Eric. This is an idea worth checking out. In my game, Diamond Lake is actually a small town on the river called Diamond River, not Daggerford. But the river turning green with worms similar to the one they found at Filge's would certainly pique their interest!
Another idea I had was to use the Banite temple from Lords of Darkness as a model for an Ebon Triad temple being set up about a day away from the mine, with a long tunnel connecting the temple dungeon to the Dourstone Mine or perhaps surfacing at some point with the rest of the path above ground. So, in fact, things aren't afoot (anymore) in the mine itself - it's just where Smenk has provisions delivered (which are then taken to the temple by E.T. cultists). I like the idea that the temple is being built by a cleric using Wall of Stone, as it allows for it to go up quickly. That same cleric could perhaps use Lesser Planar Ally to summon a like minded creature (bearded devil?) to guard the entrance to the tunnel.
Doug
If you have access to "N5 - Under Illefarn", a 1e module that might be available in PDF form, I might suggest you use the major adventure that takes place under Mount Illefarn.
Not only is it available in PDF form, you can buy it on the Paizo store here.
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The more I read about the story, the more it seems like Three Faces of Evil was premature in the story. Both Theldrick and the Faceless One are much more important to the overall plot than they seemed at first. My party is almost finished with Whispering Cairn, and I am not looking forward to losing two good villains so quickly.
I’m writing up a substitute adventure for the second adventure, one that focuses on a hidden library under the mine instead of a temple. The PC’s will meet The Faceless One, but will deal with some grimlocks while he escapes with ‘hidden knowledge’. They will have to get out of the library while it burns down, and hopefully save a couple books in the process. I haven’t decided how I am going to introduce Theldrick, yet. I am planning on running TFoE later, with appropriate level adjustments.
I too am moving in a Banite stronghold similar to the one found in Lords of Darkness (I will hopefully have the map posted on RPGenius soon). That will help break up the monotonous dungeon crawl. Theldrick sees himself as the manipulator of the other factions of the triad adding their dead-god-worshipping glory to Bane's power. The grimlocks are a truly prophetic group, having been cleansed in the tainted waters beneath the Boarskyr (sp?) bridge. The cult of Myrkul is a sham group organized by a githyanki warlock who is the real manipulator behind the ebon triad. A rogue githyanki sect are syphoning the faith of the triad to fuel the rise of Gith (kyuss) to godhood. It should be noted that I am incorporating the githyanki incursion campaign into AoW.
I just started my players on the Three Faces. While I wish it hadn't been quite so open ended (Whats to stop the players from wandering into the vecna wing before doing the other two bits?) it seemed like a fine adventure.
I like the faceless one (In fact I'm arranging his escape, post defeat, in case I want to use him later) I dont see the problem with having cool villans at low levels.
My party got rather thoroughly trounced by Theldrick's Banites, I swear they picked every option which would give the banites an edge...
So what are the problems you see with TFOE? I was much less impressed with Blackwell Keep. I mean, seriously, would you honestly go to sleep at night knowing there's an unkillable undead monstrosity locked in your basement?
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So what are the problems you see with TFOE? I was much less impressed with Blackwell Keep. I mean, seriously, would you honestly go to sleep at night knowing there's an unkillable undead monstrosity locked in your basement?
My main problems were all the errors and, more importantly, nothing in this adventure grabs me. Part of this is the writing style, and part of it is content. Dungeon crawls have to be compelling for some reason, or else players (at least my players) are going to keep asking "why are we down here again? my PC would rather be _________". By comparison, the assault on Blackwell Keep, followed by the trek to the lizardfolk lair, was more interesting to me.
Point taken about keeping a spawn of kyuss locked up rather than trying to destroy it. There's probably several ways to make this seem more plausible...
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I'm not sure why, with all the future release yet left in this Path, you'd want to keep these minor pawns of Kyuss alive...every adventure so far has a major villian in it (though the mind flayer seems cliche'..almost as much as the doppleganger angle...anyone know a good repalcement critter for Zx?)...I plan on letting my players kill the scum as they deserve, since the text pretty much indicates the Facless One is fanatical enough to throw his life away defending all his hard work. Apart from being 'faceless', he does not strike me much as an intresting villian (at least, any more than any other 6th level wizard). I will probably add a few ogre stooges to his group, as my party is around 8 PC's.
I'm not sure why, with all the future release yet left in this Path, you'd want to keep these minor pawns of Kyuss alive...every adventure so far has a major villian in it (though the mind flayer seems cliche'..almost as much as the doppleganger angle...anyone know a good repalcement critter for Zx?)...I plan on letting my players kill the scum as they deserve, since the text pretty much indicates the Facless One is fanatical enough to throw his life away defending all his hard work. Apart from being 'faceless', he does not strike me much as an intresting villian (at least, any more than any other 6th level wizard). I will probably add a few ogre stooges to his group, as my party is around 8 PC's.
i think a lot of dm's like to have recurring villains whom the party can fixate on. i know that as a player, i highly enjoy hunting down that rat bastard who (insert random villainy here)'d me that one time!
i'm intending a compromise between letting all the three survive, and having the party kill them all. theladrik is going to have to die (because i like how parts 4 and 5 tie in), but the faceless one will escape and taunt the party by doing so. i can also, if i build him up right, use him to prod the party in the right direction along the adventure path from time to time.
Personally I think this adventure gets a bad rap. I'll agree its not the most exciting adventure to read, but it plays very well. I have yet to hear of a group that actually played it and didn't have a good time. Of course, I can't see any problem with you swapping it for something else if it doesn't suit your needs. What's the point of being DM if you aren't going to tweak the details.
If your not using it you only need to keep a few details that I can see. The players need to piss off the Ebon Triad somehow. The Rift gets mentioned in connection with the worms. The Ebon Triads interest in the lizardfolk of Mistmarsh comes up. Other than that it seems like you can do what you like. Good luck with your game
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If your not using it you only need to keep a few details that I can see. The players need to piss off the Ebon Triad somehow. The Rift gets mentioned in connection with the worms. The Ebon Triads interest in the lizardfolk of Mistmarsh comes up. Other than that it seems like you can do what you like. Good luck with your game
Thanks, Adam. This is what I was looking for!
I agree with Adam on this one, I think 3FoE was a fine adventure. OK, there were a few too many errors in the text - that is both an annoyance and a problem, but it's also one that's not too hard to fix up. Now, with that conceded...
The adventure presents 3 very different, and very interesting, tactical challenges for the players. Each temple is very different, but also very challenging - and also fair, in that a 3rd-4th level party could do it.
The biggest single problem is the inability to resupply between the various temples. Make sure to hint heavily (i.e. beat over the head with) that the party will be down there for a while before they go in. If the party knows that ahead of time, the adventure plays extremely well, and I'd highly recommend it.
Drew Garrett
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I DO like the adventure - a great deal. It just seems to me like it would be better placed later in the story, when the PC's have a better idea what it is they are fighting against.
After the beating my PC's got in the Whispering Cairn, they have absolutely no desire to go into another underground enclosure where evil dwells just because it's there. They believe that's what the garrison and other authories are for.
And it gives me a chance to play a villain with a 21 Intelligence against the party for a long time - giving them a greater motivation to work against the Bad Thing.
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The biggest single problem is the inability to resupply between the various temples. Make sure to hint heavily (i.e. beat over the head with) that the party will be down there for a while before they go in. If the party knows that ahead of time, the adventure plays extremely well, and I'd highly recommend it.
Drew Garrett
I like the way tis written. If the party can get their mits on the wand of Cure light wounds, they shouldn't have much trouble in the heal department. Which brings me to another thing...there are an unusually large # of wands in Whispering and 3FOE...Wand of Shatter, Wand of Unseen Servant, Wand of Cure Lt. Wounds, Wand of Burning Hands, and probably one other I missed off the top of my head...