Argh. Either I suffer from over verbalization syndrome, or I just lack the ability to try and explain an adventure in "about two double-spaced pages." Is there an example (preferably successful) query letter posted somewhere on the site I could take a peek at? I'm getting very annoyed at myself trying to figure out how much to describe before it's too much (as opposed to not enough).
Time for more tea.
Argh. Either I suffer from over verbalization syndrome, or I just lack the ability to try and explain an adventure in "about two double-spaced pages." Is there an example (preferably successful) query letter posted somewhere on the site I could take a peek at? I'm getting very annoyed at myself trying to figure out how much to describe before it's too much (as opposed to not enough).
Time for more tea.
Bram -
I'd love to see one myself - I've submitted several queries, but not yet a successful one. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the three I haven't heard about yet.
- Ashavan
I agree, this would be nice.
It would also make the editors job a lot easier since they wouldn't have to constantly wade through badly written queries.
I agree, this would be nice.
It would also make the editors job a lot easier since they wouldn't have to constantly wade through badly written queries.
Hey - Mike let us see some of the queries he's received for Dragon.... they were enormously helpful when I formulated my first Class Acts queries (even if they did get rejected).
Maybe a personal plea would help... Richard - we know you're out there.... any chance of sharing the query from the styes???
- Ashavan
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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If published authors want to share their queries we certainly have no problem with that.
We understand that it's sometimes a pain to summarize an idea in a short space, but quite frankly the hoop-jumping is at least partially intentional. Assuming we greenlight your proposal, you're going to need to figure out how to finish the final submission quickly and according to our needs.
If a writer can't figure out how to sell an idea in two pages, how can the editors be convinced that they can write an excellent article for the magazine?
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
If a writer can't figure out how to sell an idea in two pages, how can the editors be convinced that they can write an excellent article for the magazine?
And if an editor can't figure out that if 90% of his magazine is written by outside authors submitting material and that he has to support that process by providing guidelines for newbie writers, who aren't experienced at writing query letters, so that the process continues, then how is he going to sell his magazine?
Both magazines provide extensive guidelines for would-be writers, so your comment is wholly without merit.
Obviously, my comments are not without merit or this wouldn't be a topic in your forums. Obviously, the guidelines are lacking. Fix them.
Obviously, my comments are not without merit or this wouldn't be a topic in your forums. Obviously, the guidelines are lacking. Fix them.
Actually I find the guidelines quite thorough. Knowing that I need to write a two page double-spaced query containing certain information does not give me problems. I just think it would be useful to know how successful Dungeon authors have presented that query.
The only thing I have a problem with in the guidelines is the suggestion that the easiest place to break into Dungeon is the Campaign Workbook. A cursory glance at the authors since the relaunch shows that the preponderance of articles were written by a small group of very well known authors: Richard Pett, Russell Brown, Mike Mearls, Wolfgang Baur, Rodney Thompson - names that readers will recognize from the pages of Dragon and Dungeon already, if not from other gaming publications - Mike Mearls writes for Malhavoc Press, Wolfgang Baur for Green Ronin and WotC (and was, unless I'm mistaken, an editor for Dungeon), Rodney Thompson again for Green Ronin. Knowing that this is the crowd I'm competing against in trying to get articles into the section that *supposedly* is the easiest to break into makes it hard to even try.
Of course, that hasn't kept me from trying, but it made me darn nervous when I was making the submissions.
- Ashavan
The only thing I have a problem with in the guidelines is the suggestion that the easiest place to break into Dungeon is the Campaign Workbook. A cursory glance at the authors since the relaunch shows that the preponderance of articles were written by a small group of very well known authors: Richard Pett, Russell Brown, Mike Mearls, Wolfgang Baur, Rodney Thompson - names that readers will recognize from the pages of Dragon and Dungeon already, if not from other gaming publications - Mike Mearls writes for Malhavoc Press, Wolfgang Baur for Green Ronin and WotC (and was, unless...
Ashavan, I felt exactly the same way when I made my first batch of submissions but dont let it stop you trying, looking at your queries you obviously have a passion for what you're doing which is a big plus. Dungeon magazine welcomed my stuff on merit as I'm sure they would with anything they get - I'd never had anything published in any role-playing environment before but kept trying, its easy to get disheartened but getting knock backs is another joyful part of writing.
As I think I've put before, I get regular rejections, and it always takes a while to get back to me, but as has been said in other discussion forums reading through submissions is just part of what the staff will be doing. Regarding submissions I try to stick rigidly to the guidelines but, as Erik says, if the idea is isnt puchy enough in a couple of pages its not going to keep interest up over ten or twelve thousand words. For what its worth, the last three rejections I had I have had a good look at and its clear why they wouldnt work, an apocalyptic maltese falcon type adventure which was just too sweeping, a too linear comedy plot involving ropers and boggles who worshipped them, and a prison based plot that was a bit too close to the knuckle horrifically. However, of those two are still in my head as fundimentally good ideas and I may re-jig them, try them on my players and re-submit them in a varied format - which is exactly what I did with devil box, which began as a rejected submission about an escaped effreeti being chased by kobolds and ended up being about a shrunken chain devil in #109.
Sadly the roper plot will stay in the bin.
I find the hard part of submissions is analysing what is good and what is bad and making decisions as to what to bin and what to send or rework, but I'm sure other writers have different issues - I hope my friend Mr Vaughan may have something to say on the subject...
rich
Perhaps one of the Editors (or anyone else) can answer me a few nagging questions. I'm considering submitting an adventure query or three.
1) Is there any benefit to submitting proposals via email? I suffer from an unfortunate lack of access to a scanner so I am unable to create a digital copy of a Standard Disclosure Form.
2) Are there any guidelines for email query length (or just the equivalent of 2 pages double spaced)?
3) If by chance a submission of mine is accepted, is there normally a deadline to submit a completed manuscript? Should I start writing it now, or wait until I get a response?
I appreciate any help anyone can give me.
Maybe a personal plea would help... Richard - we know you're out there.... any chance of sharing the query from the styes???
- Ashavan
The Styes - argh! The original Styes submission was based on a mutated half fiend of possesion being the lantern man and feeding the fiendish kraken, the skum in the plot were sahaugin and the chasing group were also sahaugin, it fitted the submission guidelines as close as I could (which obviously helps the reader). James suggested re-writing sections of it which, in my opinion, make it a much stronger adventure, I hadn't considered Aboleth at any time in my submission but I think they are great villains, however, I'd submitted the Styes a while back and, for practice, written the whole thing to try on my players (as they get a constant diet of horror, tentacled, slithering, transforming or otherwise). So the re-write was more or less total; Dory and his ship remained, and the sanitorium, and Landgraves Folly, but the rest had to be reworked which was quite challenging, however, as I'd fractured my skull in an accident I had plenty of time to do it and found the process interesting (it was a 24 hit point warhammer strike by the way).
I think as well, that Styes fitted into the Lords of Madness release so I was quite lucky to get the right thing at the right time.
I think its important to stress that 'established' writers (if thats what I am - I dont feel it just yet!) get stuff rejected too, and we also have to wait for our stuff to receive proper attention, I'd hate to think that staff at Dungeon would be put under pressure to speed-read submission and may miss a potential Greg Vaughan. I've another four submissions with Dungeon at the moment, as well as some campaign workbooks, and I'm pretty keen on quite a few of the adventures and one workbook in particular, I cant wait to hear back but I know also how much time the staff will have, I'd rather they had a good look and took longer than had a quick glance and got back to me more often.
And in the meantime - good grief its sunny in England, time to get in the garden and read Tammerauts Fate again for pointers.
Rich
1) Is there any benefit to submitting proposals via email? I suffer from an unfortunate lack of access to a scanner so I am unable to create a digital copy of a Standard Disclosure Form.
The guidelines say something about E-mails being preferred (or at least quicker).
I don't have a scanner either. However, I've been going to my local Kinko's every Tuesday night with a fistfull of printed/completed disclosure agreements, and using their scanners. You can then go online and E-mail them to yourself for future use. In Indianapolis it's 40 cents a minute, which seems pricy. But once you start doing it alot, you can get 3-5 scanned, saved, and E-mailed for under 3 bucks.
Good luck, dude.
I didn't scan my signature, I just typed in the Standard Disclosure Form and sent it with my email. I really hope that's sufficient. If it isn't, I hope the editors tell me that, so I can resubmit. I'll have to use a digital camera to get my signature (and my new camera is coming in the mail).
If a writer can't figure out how to sell an idea in two pages, how can the editors be convinced that they can write an excellent article for the magazine?
This isn't quite what I meant, and I'm regretting starting the thread now - I didn't expect quite the level of vitriol it has inspired. :(
Verboseness aside, the query letter write up in the submission guidelines says to include "a working title, an original and compelling plot, the major foes faced in the adventure, a summary of the rewards to be gained and foes to be overcome, and an estimate of the completed adventure's length in words and number of maps."
As an example of what I was trying to understand, "the major foes faced" means..? Is something like 'Gnoll Barbarian 5 armed with a spiked chain and a focus on improved trip' enough, for example, or is a stat block required (in which case, I've been far too verbose in my description of the plot, as a stat block just wouldn't fit). I understand the hoop-jumping aspect fully; I write book reviews as a sideline to my regular book-selling job, but the query letter description gets four lines of text, and I was hoping for a bit of flushing out. Is "a summary of the rewards to be gained" fulfilled with a quick GP amount and a highlight of the best treasure item? Given that the advice is to not write the adventure prior to submission, I'm guessing that a full list isn't intended.
That was more what I intended, and I'm sorry to have opened this particular can of worms.
I wonder if attaching the query letter as a PDF would be a good or a bad thing.
Questions, questions, questions, and all of them about query letters. Why are there questions, people? Surely the guidelines are adequate...
Oh, and what size type should we use? Is 9-point fine?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Nine point type is fine. Please don't go smaller than that, at the risk of our sweet, sweet eyesight.
As for being intimidated by the fine folks contributing to Dungeon's Campaign Workbook, don't worry about it. Sections like the Campaign Workbook and Class Acts have voracious appetities, and we're constantly looking for new submissions. Even if Richard Pett sold us five Campaign Workbook articles, we've still got dozens of holes to fill over the next several months.
There is no "fame" requirement to get into the magazine at all, and especially not for the shorter sections. The fact that many established authors appear there is more a testament to their ability to crank out printable articles at top speed.
Two years ago, I had never heard of Richard Pett or Greg Vaughan.
Don't sweat it.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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1) Is there any benefit to submitting proposals via email? I suffer from an unfortunate lack of access to a scanner so I am unable to create a digital copy of a Standard Disclosure Form.
You might hear back faster, but basically no. These days we compile all of the queries from the last month to two weeks and go over all of them during a query meeting, regardless of how they came to us. Email's probably easier for you, but it doesn't really matter to us.
2) Are there any guidelines for email query length (or just the equivalent of 2 pages double spaced)?
I'll leave this to the folks who respond directly to the queries.
3) If by chance a submission of mine is accepted, is there normally a deadline to submit a completed manuscript? Should I start writing it now, or wait until I get a response?
We'll always give you a deadline. Sometimes it'll be "wow, this fits a hole I need filled fast. Can you have it done by the end of the month?" Other times it'll be more like "Please get this back to us in three months" or something. The point is it changes based on what we've got in the hopper, and is impossible to predict.
That said, it's probably in your best interest _not_ to write the final piece until you've received the go-ahead on the final article from the editorial staff. As you can see based on this thread, we reject far more articles than we are able to accept.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
I copy/paste the Disclosure Form into a Word document, type my name and address in (along with all other pertinent information), and attach it to my query/submission. I've never had a problem.
I've always found the current guidelines to be adequate - more than adequate, actually, compared to some of the magazines out there.
-Amber S.
Edit: And should I ever sell an adventure, I'd be happy to post my query here. :-)
Am I correct in thinking that the Standard Disclosure Form needs to accompany email queries solely for adventure queries? Also, I haven't seen a Critical Threat in quite some time. Does anyone know if the magazine is still running this feature?
I submit a standard disclosure with every submission I make - which has only been Dragon stuff so far.
Am I correct in thinking that the Standard Disclosure Form needs to accompany email queries solely for adventure queries? Also, I haven't seen a Critical Threat in quite some time. Does anyone know if the magazine is still running this feature?
Hunter -
Critical Threats are, according to James' posts, still alive and well, there just haven't been a lot of them lately (only two since the relaunch).
- Ashavan
Critical Threats are alive, but not well. I'll do my best to see if we can get one crammed into issue #124.
James -
What's the difficulty? Are you not getting submissions, or just not the kind of submissions you need? Or is it just a space issue?
- Ashavan
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Creative Director
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What's the difficulty? Are you not getting submissions, or just not the kind of submissions you need? Or is it just a space issue?
- Ashavan
It's a space issue. Several issues came in so close to the wire, and the critical threat is just doomed to be the easiest one to bump to the next issue. This plus a hundred other little factors simply converged on the Critical Threat to push it into limbo.
It's a space issue. Several issues came in so close to the wire, and the critical threat is just doomed to be the easiest one to bump to the next issue. This plus a hundred other little factors simply converged on the Critical Threat to push it into limbo.What's the difficulty? Are you not getting submissions, or just not the kind of submissions you need? Or is it just a space issue?
- Ashavan
Typical... and I love writing those too! Feh. Oh well, the Cast and the City are fun sections to write also. I guess I'll focus on those for a while until the fate of Critical Threat comes into focus.
- Ashavan