
![]() |

I recall - but cannot seem to find - a letter from a reader who was requesting electronic maps in the magazine. It seems he uses electronic maps during play - as a battlemap - projected on his tabletop.
He wrote in his letter about using a LCD projector to project the map straight down on the tabletop, already at the correct scale 1" = one square scale. With a click of a mouse, his battlemap was there instantly *poof*.
This struck me as awesome idea. A few questions follow:
1 - Which issue did this appear in and is that letter writer online? (or somebody else know him?) What kind of hardware set up does he use?
2 - Erik: Have you considered doing a story on this guys' hardware setup? I know an expensive LCD Projector sounds prohibitive - but it need not be. D&D players don't need mega fast LCD projectors - the old still image LCD tablets mounted on an overhead projector are all we need as **our images don't need to move**. We don't need movies - we just need stills.
3- Has anyone else tried this or know anything about it? Minimal focal length to table, resolution and brightness seem to be the major issues, along with making sure your source image is at the correct resolution so your one square = 1 inch on the tabletop is always correct.
4 - While a little steep sounding in terms of cost, I expect *on the cheap* is doable and I further expect that split across a group of 5 or 6 - something like this is well within the reach of most gaming circles. If it works as well as advertised, this would be a simply awesome addition to play sessions.
I would really LOVE to hear more about this. Any ideas folks?

![]() |

Hi Steel_Wind!
I think you refer to Dungeon issue#113 (the one with the first Eberron adventure and the BIG MAP of Khorvaire).
On page 12, the letter titled "BEST GAMING SETUP EVER" is what I think you are searching...
Yeah, this sounds very cool, but as well very expensive! We tried it once but couldn't suspend the projector over our gaming table! Anyway, I hope you will fare better! Have fun!!!

![]() |

That's the one! My Issue #113 wasn't in my stack and I could not find it.
So, Jans W. Carton from Webster Groves, MO - where are you out there? Tell us how you did it!
I seem to have found Jans online and have fired him off an email to what are apprently current addresses, so I'll see what he says and report back!

![]() |

UPDATE:
Ok, well I have not yet heard back from Jans Carton. I may have been spam binned, or he may have been at Gencon/vacation and simply has not got back to me yet.
OTOH, I do have some better news. :)
I have met the online acquaintance of the owner of a LCD projector company and told him about our pressing need for a great LCD projector at a bargain price for the specific purpose of using it at the gaming table.
Guess what? He's very intrigued and the man is coming through for us. It turns out, this is a LOT cheaper than we thought it was going to be - amounting to about $100 a person in our 6 member gaming circle to put a new high resolution, data grade, very bright, purpose-built LCD projector over top of our gaming table.
I plan to run an extensive how-to, price list guide and after battle report on this with a lot of pics and some video too to give you a sense of what it adds to the in-game experience.
Will post back when we know more!

![]() |

Yes - you would if your entire table was covered with the map. It's not supposed to be *that* invasive (or, alternatively, your table needs to be a wee bit bigger!)
The original letter writer to Dungeon #113, Jans Carlton, has arrived back from Gencon and he's promised to do a write up with pics on his site as well.
Be patient for a week or so.

Boredflak |

Just started reading these messageboards. I didn't realize my letter had been published 'til after I got back from Gen Con Indy 2004 and read Steel_Wind's email!
I'll post a full write up of our projector setup complete with pictures and tech specs at my site:
http://www.d20srd.org
I expect to do it by this weekend, or early next week.

Dagobert |
Yes - you would if your entire table was covered with the map. It's not supposed to be *that* invasive (or, alternatively, your table needs to be a wee bit bigger!)
Gosh, that sure would save real estate on the table. You could put the food and drinks right on the map in the places you're not using at the moment!
Jans, I know you're working on a how-to description. Maybe you can answer this question there: Does this method allow you to hide parts of the map the party hasn't yet explored?
Dagobert
English-speaking gamers in Paris
http://innerkeep.enchantedrealms.net/

![]() |

Jans, I know you're working on a how-to description. Maybe you can answer this question there: Does this method allow you to hide parts of the map the party hasn't yet explored?
Dagobert
As I understand it, Jans (who I believe is a Mac user) uses Photoshop and creates various layers to mask out his rooms. He then reveals those layers during play to show the underlying room or corridor.
A better - and far easier - way for Windows users is to use a purpose built application like TableTop Mapper.
Tabletop Mapper is a freeware app that imports a .jpg or .bmp of any size, throws a grid over it of arbitrary size and then lets you define areas on the map. You can go in and define your map room by room, corridor by corridor in a few minutes with a few clicks - and then reveal it during play the same way.
The PCs never see more than you intend them to.
Tabletop Mapper also has a few nice tools like "area of effect". You can show these AoEs dynamically in game when a spell fires off in a radius, etc.
Tabletop Mapper is probably available on several sites, but I found it on ENworld here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/local_links.php?action=jump&id=288

![]() |

...A better - and far easier - way for Windows users is to use a purpose built application like TableTop Mapper.
Oh my, thanx for this link! It's really cool and works good! Yeah, we tried the projector thing! We didn't play during this evening, just looking how we would operate the whole thing! The only problem is, we have no good hold for the projector and this thing (an old one) is damn loud!!!
But if we get our hands on a newer one, this is defeniately the way to play! And I don't have to erase the maps after every encounter, and no one will put coffe-stains on my maps ;)
By the way, we put a big sheet of white paper on the table (got it from a paper-producing firm (right word?) so that we were able to write something "on the map"! This worked very well!!!

CharonMan |

Excellent, Jans! Thanks for the link. I dig your setup and hope to someday transform my basement into a similar "retreat" for gaming. Unless I can find a good (cheap) used projector, I may have to forego the overhead projection system. Wonder if there's a different way to do it? Very large LCD monitor turned face up beneath a glass tabeltop? You wouldn't get the same breadth, but it might be cheaper and add to a claustrophobic feel. Just brainstorming...

![]() |

Charon,
I'm working with a designer over at http://www.diyprojectorcompany.com on a gaming specifc LCD projector design.
It's something you would have to build in accordance with their plans and parts, but the costs of the device is competitive with a large LCD monitor. Assempbly is not terribly difficult and is on par with assembling your own PC fomr parts. (read: Lego for grown ups, with some assembel IKEA furniture skills checks thrown in)
When we get the thing up and running and where we want it to be, we'll post pics, the results and the design specs.
I'm really bullish on this technology and while it is impractical for a lot of gaming circles - for many others that have been together a while, Sharing the Love (and the cost) on these setups allows it not to be so cost prohibitive (and is far less than many will spend on collectible miniatures or less substantial gaming material and accessories).

![]() |

An update to a topic that was raised last fall:
We have our Projector - in fact a DLP projector, installed now and have been using it for a few months during play.
I must say that this has worked out much better than we ever hoped it would and it really adds to game play.
In terms of coming up with quickie layouts for camp areas and even unplanned encounters, the NWN toolset is perfect for the task and I can whip up a detailed encounter area in about 1 minute.
More detailed maps for pre-planned adventure areas take a little more time, but no worse than they would be otherwise. We have also used pre-existing maps from WotC products and web enhacements with this setup. Again, it only takes a few mins of prep and it's done. Enhancement during play has been great.
Pics of our setup are here on an article I posted on our website.
http://www.dladventures.net/iB/index.php?s=305704b79f986a38cd528d1d7755e193 &showtopic=2386
Total cost for each of the 6 regular members of our gaming circle was $100CDN each. At the price of hardcover books these days, that's about 2 to 3 of them.
I highly recommend this technology. It's worked out great for us.
Thanks again to Dungeon Mag and Jans Carlton for inspiring our group

![]() |

I've posted a message on Jans' site (www.d20srd.org) about the setup my gaming group has begun using.
I bought myself a NEC LT240K for Christmas 2004 (woohoo!) and I use it to watch Matrix, Indiana Jones movies, and so on. So the projector needs to be fairly portable from room to room. In addition, I bought a pull-up screen to project onto. It's a portable unit (not a tripod style, though). It lays flat on the floor and a handle is used to unroll it upward (sort of like a window blind in reverse). There is a pneumatic scissor system behind it that keeps it at whatever height is set. Since the screen is only 17 pounds or so, I can easily move it from the game room down to the family room where the big stereo setup exists.
For gaming, we play in the upstairs "game room" (pool table and dart board being the prominent furniture). Because of the pool table, an under-the-table setup wouldn't work. We're playing tomorrow (only the second time with the projector) and I plan to project an image onto the screen. That means no physical figs, like the tabletop projection technique (sigh). However, with the right software, I plan to hand the projector remote to a player and ask them to move their character. They can use the remote to move the computer's mouse (there is a USB cable from the projector to the laptop). As they move, the computer will trace the route it has chosen to get their character to that square. The squares covered prior to using up their first move-equivalent action (WotC term there, sorry!) will be green, meaning they'll still be able to make a single attack. Movement beyond that and up to twice their movement will be yellow, indicating no further actions. Movement beyond even that point will cause all squares to be made orange, indicating that the character is "running" (there's a 3rd Ed definition involved). And any movement above that will cause additional squares to be red, indicating that it will take more movement than currently available. A number will appear inside the square showing how many rounds it would take to get there. Options in the software would control whether the computer routes the character around attacks of opportunity, whether it restricts movement for actions like "charging" and running (straight line only, for example). The player will be able to right-click and bring up a menu to select which of those options should be enabled or disabled for their character.
That last paragraph describes my "vision" for the projector. The reality is that I plan to use Tabletop Mapper until I find something else closer to what I want. If I can't find that "something else", I'll write my own. Probably either in Java (if I go with something like KloogeWerks) or Python (if I decide to use OpenRPG).
After this weekend's game, I'll post some pictures of what our setup looks like. The pics will be on my web site and I'll put links both here and on Jans' site in the thread where I posted my game room description.
Cheers!

![]() |

I've posted a message on Jans' site (www.d20srd.org) about the setup my gaming group has begun using.
I bought myself a NEC LT240K for Christmas 2004 (woohoo!) and I use it to watch Matrix, Indiana Jones movies, and so on. So the projector needs to be fairly portable from room to room.
LT240K. Nice DLP. And fairly small and lightweight too!
Please have a look at the mount setup we use for our overhead. It's portable and rock solid stable. You can use something like this for your gaming application and still use it for movies downstairs.
Here's a pic of it: http://www.dladventures.com/gallery/public/project_2.jpg
There are no screws or other permanent attachment involved inthe projector or on the ceiling in the pole setup we use.
There are a few more details on the pole support and metal bar in another post on the same forum. Check it out. I think you will find that the tabletop use is far more cool during play. The brightness of your projector is enough that you will not need anything terribly special for a projection surface. I would recommend a plain white piece of bristleboard or a sheet of white foam core overlaid with a square grid crystal mat (the transparent battlemats). With a 1600-2000 ANSI DLP, you won't need anything more than that
Please feel free to take a few pics of your setup and results and post em on our p'n p forum at www.dladventures.net .

![]() |

Thanks for the friendly comments, Steel. :) I will try to get some pictures taken in the next day or two, and then visit your web site.
My problem using a pole setup like you've got is the low ceiling in the upstairs room -- it's only an 8-foot ceiling, and there is a ceiling fan hanging directly over the pool table. I do plan to get a surface-mount kit for the fan, so that should add a little more space there, but I think the throw on the projector would be to short to get any kind of size on the image. I'll play with it tomorrow and see how big it'll get. And I'll put the camera into movie mode and try to get a good 360-degree panorama shot; we'll see how well that comes out, since I can't stand in the middle of the room. :)
I used TMapper last Sunday and it was too slow to have it manage the players on the screen. But that could be my prep work: I defined areas to be hidden, with doors and all that, then selected all remaining space as another area and marked it hidden. My goal was to hide where the solid rooms are in addition to where the corridors are. Unfortunately, that made the scrolling and such pretty slow. I'm going to try using a paint program to "black out" all of the solid areas on the map so that the VisualBasic program doesn't have to do that part of the job. That will significantly reduce the work it has to do and hopefully speed it up. Otherwise, I think TMapper is great! It was handy to mark out the area of silence spells, for example, and just leave them sitting on the map.
One annoying thing about it, though, was that it would pop-up dialog boxes on the laptop screen instead of on the external monitor (the projector). That may be as simple to solve as moving the dialog box to the external display once, and in the future it pops up there; but I didn't take the time to experiment in the middle of the session. (And a good session it was -- a party with an EL of 10 (avg party level 5.3) took on a bunch of stuff with a total EL of 10! With kick-butt tactics, they overcame the bad guys! It was rough, but they have cause to be proud. And it didn't even use up that much of the party's magic.)
More later.

heruca |

Using Photoshop masks to gradually reveal maps is old-school, and tedious. For those who want a more automated solution, check out Battlegrounds: RPG Edition (http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/).
This virtual tabletop software was designed to greatly enhance such projector-based gaming setups. Its Fog of War feature dynamically reveals the map based on unit positions, light source settings, and each figure's enhanced night vision capabilities (if any).
A free demo is available for download, but the $29.95 purchase price should be a no-brainer for someone who can afford a projector, especially since Battlegrounds also lets you pull up visual aids, play sound effects, consult game charts, and much more.
Also see my post here for more info on the Fog of War feature:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/general/offTopicDiscussions/bestMaping Software