the new DC movies by James Gunn

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/james-gunn-unveils- dc-slate-batman-superman-1235314176/

Booster Gold and the Authority are near the top of my list. I'm very curious who is going to be on the authority team. Supergirl is another fantastic choice. I'm excited for Waller and creature commandos, too.

But ugh, Damien. Please no

Interested in everything except skipping every Robin I like for a Robin I don't like.

Perusing the article, I’ve got to say…..I’m discouraged.

Seeing the names Damien Wayne (crap character) and Tom King (hack writer) are, for me red flags. And I was never much impressed with the Wildstorm stuff, so don’t think much of The Authority. I wasn’t too fond of Gunn’s decision to boot Henry Cavill (especially since there’s rumors he might keep Ezra Miller), so I’m cautiously pessimistic regarding a Superman project. I’m iffy on Booster Gold - I used to like the character, but he got old after awhile. Still, considering Gunn’s success with other lesser characters, he might be able to do something.

Another Pattinson Batman movie might be okay. I found the first pretty entertaining. A Green Lantern project with two of my favorites could be cool. And a Swamp Thing movie might be good, if done properly.

As usual, much like being alive is different from him being undead, I'm disagreeing with the zombie about how much I enjoy this direction, especially if Gunn and Co can make a great Authority movie. (Here's hoping!)

Tom King (hack writer)

Oh, I'll never forgive him for Heroes in Crisis, but I just finished his Mister Miracle and it was great. It's not like he'll be directly involved. His Supergirl story got great reviews, and now some other people are going to try to improve it.

The one that made me go "Oh heck yeah," was Waller.

Most of the others newly introduced I'm kinda meh on. You'd think I'd be down with the Themyscira intrigue thing but I've always sort of felt meh about Wonder Woman adjacent stories that weren't about Wonder Woman, but that's because I've burned by some really bad takes on the Amazons in the comics. Maybe it'd be interesting but I don't have that "oooh" feeling.

Not feeling the Supergirl thing either. People might have different things about it but I feel like Melissa Benoist put such a stamp on the character that should be let be for awhile. Don't like the idea of Dark And Edgy Supergirl either.

Oh yes, and also, f@~+ Damian Wayne. Worst thing that ever happened to Batman comics.

I had not heard about it prior but the idea that Ta-Nehisi Coates is working on an Elseworlds Superman is pretty damn cool. He's an amazing writer of fiction and nonfiction alike. Highly recommend his run on Captain America comics. Glad they haven't decided to can it.

Definitely not a fan of the dark edgy Supergirl take, but at the same time, if you're going to do Superman and Supergirl at the same time, it does make a certain amount of sense to have a different take on one of them.

That does raise the question though of why do both at the same time in the first place. Do Superman, have him lean into and own the truth justice and boy scout do-gooder core essence of the character. Then after Superman 3 movie and him being a more established leader and the actor looking to wrap up their contract and do something else, introduce Supergirl, have them co-exist for a movie and then have her take the Superman role in the DCU for another 6 movie contract. Free up 1 of the movie slots for some other character entirely.

I have no clue who the Authority is, and from reading the articles, it's not even clear to me that they're part of DC, being from an imprint comic brand owned by DC - are they actually part of the comic DC continuity sharing space with Superman, Batman, etc?

Not surprisingly, I'm way more interested in pretty much every TV project announced than the movies, but that seems to be something DC does no matter who's at the helm. The new Superman though might be good though.

Aberzombie wrote:

Tom King (hack writer)

Oh, I'll never forgive him for Heroes in Crisis, but I just finished his Mister Miracle and it was great. It's not like he'll be directly involved. His Supergirl story got great reviews, and now some other people are going to try to improve it.

I thought King’s MM started off strong, then ended idiotically. Heroes in Crisis was the final straw for me though. Since then, I won’t touch anything with his name on it.

Oh yes, and also, f*!* Damian Wayne. Worst thing that ever happened to Batman comics.

I like this. When the Zombiepocalypse happens, we’ll save you for somewhere in the middle.

I have no clue who the Authority is, and from reading the articles, it's not even clear to me that they're part of DC, being from an imprint comic brand owned by DC - are they actually part of the comic DC continuity sharing space with Superman, Batman, etc?

As I recall, The Authority was part of Wildstorm, and independent company founded by Jim Lee. Having foolishly ignored the whole “Those who do not remember history…” adage, DC eventually bought it. At some point, I think after one of their far too many yearly events, DC merged the Wildstorm stuff with mainstream DC continuity (I think. If I’m wrong, someone else with correct).

JoelF847 wrote:

I have no clue who the Authority is, and from reading the articles, it's not even clear to me that they're part of DC, being from an imprint comic brand owned by DC - are they actually part of the comic DC continuity sharing space with Superman, Batman, etc?

As I recall, The Authority was part of Wildstorm, and independent company founded by Jim Lee. Having foolishly ignored the whole “Those who do not remember history…” adage, DC eventually bought it. At some point, I think after one of their far too many yearly events, DC merged the Wildstorm stuff with mainstream DC continuity (I think. If I’m wrong, someone else with correct).

That seems about right.

Brought it in and have had very little idea what to do with it ever since.

I was very fond of the Wildstorm/Warren Ellis Authority, but that doesn't really fit in the DC universe and there's really little point in it without that vibe.

It's also kind of weird because the characters I've seen most used in DC are Midnighter and Apollo who are kind of just gay versions of Batman and Superman.

I do love Superman vs. The Elite, which is basically Superman vs. Authority. So if we are building to that I'm all for it.

The only time I've even liked Damian a little is when paired with Jon. That animated super sons movie was alright.

Well for me, I'm just in it to see the Authority have a nice brawl with the JLA and also answer the question of who is stronger, Apollo or Superman.

Perusing the article, I’ve got to say…..I’m discouraged.

Seeing the names Damien Wayne (crap character) and Tom King (hack writer) are, for me red flags. And I was never much impressed with the Wildstorm stuff, so don’t think much of The Authority. I wasn’t too fond of Gunn’s decision to boot Henry Cavill (especially since there’s rumors he might keep Ezra Miller), so I’m cautiously pessimistic regarding a Superman project. I’m iffy on Booster Gold - I used to like the character, but he got old after awhile. Still, considering Gunn’s success with other lesser characters, he might be able to do something.

I don't think you can really hold the Cavil decision against Gunn; That was the pre-existing execs and Dwayne Johnson bringing him back in the midst of company turmoil and at a time when they had to know a new creative team was going to be taking over. It was a stupid power play that ultimately failed when Black Adam turned out to not be the future of the DCEU after all

Similarly, everyone is being intentionally vague on Ezra Miller, because doing otherwise would sink a very expensive movie. Even if they are 100% going to recast the character and are already planning for that, they can't say anything.

It's an interesting roster of shows/movies to select out of the gate, although I can't help but wonder if Gunn is giving a bit too free reign to his own quirky tastes. The new Superman, Batman, and Swamp Thing movies sound good, and a Lantern TV show also seems a good idea. But the Authority? That's a pretty obscure group that I think could invite unfair comparisons to the Boys. Just the description doesn't sound like it would gell with everything else being set up.

Creature Commandos is even more obscure, but I guess its animated so maybe not a big deal since it will occupy a different "space" than the other stuff. Also hard to feel too excited about a Wonder Woman related show that doesn't actually feature Wonder Woman.

Of course the big question mark hanging over all of this is what happens if Warner or DC get sold AGAIN, and suddenly there is no management with their own ideas on how to do things.

I had not heard about it prior but the idea that Ta-Nehisi Coates is working on an Elseworlds Superman is pretty damn cool. He's an amazing writer of fiction and nonfiction alike. Highly recommend his run on Captain America comics. Glad they haven't decided to can it.

As long as it's Calvin or Val I am all for it.

Very interested in seeing how they are going to do Spectre and Swamp Thing

The disappointing thing is I love weird and dark DC but clearly James Gunn doesn't like the same weird and dark DC that I do. Until he's tapping Gail Simone to write the live action script for Secret Six: Weird Sex on the Couch he's failing to deliver the goods.

If you wanted something less immature (which I doubt Gunn would want), how about some Justice League Dark? Last time I read that comic it was Zatanna, Wonder Woman, Swamp Thing, Dr. Fate, and, most importantly, Detective Chimp. That'd be awesome.

I don't think you can really hold the Cavil decision against Gunn; That was the pre-existing execs and Dwayne Johnson bringing him back in the midst of company turmoil and at a time when they had to know a new creative team was going to be taking over. It was a stupid power play that ultimately failed when Black Adam turned out to not be the future of the DCEU after all

Of course I can hold that decision against him. He’s partly in charge. Just because bringing Cavill back was a move by the old regime doesn’t mean it was a bad move.

They’re including the Bat family, so it makes sense they’re going with an older Bruce Wayne. Yet Gunn has chosen to go with a younger Superman. Considering comic tradition has them relatively closer in age, the decision to not go with the seemingly very popular Cavill seems silly.

Similarly, everyone is being intentionally vague on Ezra Miller, because doing otherwise would sink a very expensive movie. Even if they are 100% going to recast the character and are already planning for that, they can't say anything.

True. Which just means I’ll reserve my judgement until after the (hopeful) failure of the Miller Flash movie. If they keep him, I’ll likely not bother with many more of their movies. If they get rid of him, I’ll have a bit more hope that they’re actually trying to do things better.

Very interested in seeing how they are going to do Spectre and Swamp Thing

I’m hoping for Spectre they don’t just go ahead and stick him on a team. He’s way too powerful for that.

With Swamp Thing, I’d dearly love to see a rated R horror movie. I doubt they’ll want to go that way (at least regarding the rating), but it’d be cool.

Erza Miller's pronouns are they/them, fyi.

MMCJawa wrote:

I don't think you can really hold the Cavil decision against Gunn; That was the pre-existing execs and Dwayne Johnson bringing him back in the midst of company turmoil and at a time when they had to know a new creative team was going to be taking over. It was a stupid power play that ultimately failed when Black Adam turned out to not be the future of the DCEU after all

Of course I can hold that decision against him. He’s partly in charge. Just because bringing Cavill back was a move by the old regime doesn’t mean it was a bad move.

My understanding is that--at least, according to Gunn (which should be taken with the appropriate grains of salt)--the decision was not Gunn's/Safran's to fire Cavill. He also mentions Cavill got screwed over by the previous folks in charge, and my guess is it sounds like there were contractual shenanigans where he thought he was going to be back and wasn't (which may have had to do with how poorly Black Adam did; it seems like his return was contingent on Dwayne Johnson's involvement in DC which isn't happening).

And I understand part of what you are saying is that even if Gunn didn't fire Cavill (or somehow, at least, Cavill's contract was nullified before he came aboard), Gunn could still hire him and has chosen not to. And I totally dig why that bothers you: Cavill was a good Superman. Like Brandon Routh before him, he was a good Superman let down by bad writing/plotting.

At the same time, reading between the lines in statements made by both Gunn and Cavill, I think Gunn is hoping to hire Cavill for something else and I am intrigued by that possibility, especially if it allows us to see Cavill's talents in a light unburdened by past shenanigans. I'm also willing to wait and see what they have in mind for the Superman Legacy project and what is happening with the casting of other characters before I pass judgement.

I'm with DQ, we need Gail Simone to do scripts for these shows.

I'm also willing to wait and see what they have in mind for the Superman Legacy project and what is happening with the casting of other characters before I pass judgement.

Well, what can I say. Sometimes, I’m a judgmental a-hole.

The rest of the time I’m just a run-of-the-mill a-hole. But the lovable kind.

You do, however, have a point about waiting to see how they move forward before passing (further) judgment. And I most likely will.

However, the inclusion of Damien Wayne and Tom King, along with the potential retention of Miller (probably the worst Barry Allen I’ve ever seen), already have me cautiously pessimistic. Personally, I hope the Flash movie fails miserably. That might make it easier to recast the role (though I doubt it).

Either way, I’ll wait for more news. If it looks like the same old to me, I’ll probably take the route I’m trying with current Marvel - writing most of it off as crap.

In other news, I saw an article speculating that some mysterious social media activity by James Mangold indicated he might be in the running to helm a Swamp Thing film.

That could potentially kick butt.

However, the inclusion of Damien Wayne and Tom King, along with the potential retention of Miller (probably the worst Barry Allen I’ve ever seen), already have me cautiously pessimistic. Personally, I hope the Flash movie fails miserably. That might make it easier to recast the role (though I doubt it).

I agree with concerns about Damien (especially with Gunn's delight in using him) and possibly retaining Miller--and indeed, because even with all the issues around their clearly criminally unstable mental state set aside, they're still not a good Barry. I'm not familiar with Tom King, though I take what you've said about him seriously.

Other things sound interesting still, and I thought Guardians and THE Suicide Squad were good so it's sort of 50/50 for me about where I think things are going to go. (To be clear I'm not arguing with you, just sharing my own thoughts on the matter conversationally.)

This said, the more I hear people insist the Flash movie is going to be amazing, the more I expect it's going to be a giant clusterf&$+. But IIRC it involves Flashpoint so either way gives them a canonly-explained chance to do a hard reboot.

Other things sound interesting still, and I thought Guardians and THE Suicide Squad were good so it's sort of 50/50 for me about where I think things are going to go. (To be clear I'm not arguing with you, just sharing my own thoughts on the matter conversationally.)

Oh, no. No arguments there. We’re pretty much on the same page on that. I might just be slightly more pessimistic (and cranky).

This said, the more I hear people insist the Flash movie is going to be amazing, the more I expect it's going to be a giant clusterf*$%. But IIRC it involves Flashpoint so either way gives them a canonly-explained chance to do a hard reboot.

Again, we are on the same page. From a business standpoint, they’ve got to hype it as the “best superhero movie ever”, even if it just means all they can hope for is to minimize the financial disaster. I can understand that. And Flashpoint is an excellent story arc with which to try and reboot everything, because (if written properly) it can explain all the changes, but still be contained in a single movie.

I'm taking some of the comments he's had about the Flash with a grain of salt. He's in charge of DC Studios, which is more than just a creative position. A large part of his job is to have DC Studios make boatloads of money, so of course he's going to promote things, even if they aren't his cup of tea, and it's possible he's using hyperbole because:

a) no one cares about the Flash movie now that a reboot has been announced
b) the airport worth of baggage associated with it's star
c) all of his new stuff doesn't start until 2025, and with cancellations, 2023 is pretty slim pickings, and to the best of my knowledge, there's about nothing planned from DC for 2024 (possibly the Penguin tv show? and a few animated movies), so making the 2023 releases make as much money as possible is going to be a financial priority.

Flash trailer! It's mostly things that were handled better in the TV show. Supergirl is neat, however.

I watched the new Flash trailer. The only good thing about it was Michael Keaton returning as Batman. Everything else looked either lame or “meh”. I don’t currently see myself wasting money to see that mess in a theater.

The design on Supergirl looks like Cir-el

The Flash has me interested post trailer...I wasn't a fan of Ezra Miller in the role prior to this, but that might be as much about the material they were given as it was how much they fit the part. But the trailer looks decent, and Super Girl looks pretty awesome.

Regardless of how good the movie actually is, it's a pretty stupid story to use for the first Flash solo movie (though with the change in DCU, it works out for them), but the Flashpoint story is far more impactful if you've first had a solo story or two of the Flash just doing the Flash thing and establishing his character more. Whether that's him vs. the Rogues, Reverse Flash, Zoom, etc. its a lot more impactful to change everything after you have more of his story out there to change.

I don't disagree with Joel about having more impact via Flashpoint being later...but given the fact it seems like they had little choice...this was the best they could do.

I do appreciate that Sashe Calle is doing a pretty bang up job at Kara in this movie. We'll see if that's her role going forward.

I do agree that Melissa Beniost made the role her own...but I don't think it's wrong to say Sashe might offer some other side to the character, especially in this movie.

The Flash trailer does look kind of good.

It’s really too bad Miller caused so many problems and left so much destruction in his wake - I actually liked his portrayal in previous movies but I think now the sooner WB and Gunn can move on from him the better.

I just remembered I actually really hate the Flashpoint plot, and I've already endured it in comics, on the CW, and in various cartoons. Nah, I'm not going to go into why. I know the point of it is to be a plot device (or a plot destruction device) anyway. What I will say is what while I can see why some folks enjoyed the trailer and are looking forward to the movie, I am not personally invested in seeing anything that will make me sit through yet another version of Flashpoint. Especially not with Douchebag McGee in the lead role.

Was definitely excited to see Keaton's Batman, but all that makes me want to do is rewatch Batman Returns in all its glorious dark camp charm.

I don't disagree with Joel about having more impact via Flashpoint being later...but given the fact it seems like they had little choice...this was the best they could do.

I mean, they have little choice but to release it or not now that it's made, but when they planned the movie they could have done pretty much any Flash movie they wanted, and they picked this. Long before new management came in and re-set the DCU.

I didn't notice this, but I'm told the blue beetle trailer has the original blue beetle from the 1940's in it and is supposed to be in the Gunn-verse. So we could have the JSA.

Sparky, blue beetle's sidekick is not in the movie, however.

Moreover, the trailer looks pretty good.

You do see the costumes of both Dan Garett and Ted Kord at one point. So it's clear both of them existed at one point in the setting

I saw an article about a rumor (probably best taken with a very large quantity of salt) DC is negotiating with Bradley Cooper to possibly play Lex Luthor.

I'd rather they get someone else. Like maybe, Timothée Chalamet.

As Lex Luthor? Not sure I see that casting

Why? Because you're idea is more...what, Bradley Cooper? Or Chris Pratt?

If I had to pick one of the three you’ve presented here, the closest would be Bradley Cooper - but I wouldn’t go with any of them to be honest.

None of them have the commanding presence the role requires.

...okay and who has the 'quote' commanding presence then?

(Not that I think Lex NEEDS a commanding presence. He just needs to be...you know smart.)

"You know smart" hasn't been Lex's sole defining characteristic for 37 years now.

He's a captain of industry, a tech mogul, someone with the charisma and ability to run for and win the Presidency. He was Metropolis' favorite son until Superman showed up and upset the apple cart.

Timothee Chalamet looks like someone forgot to read the washing instructions and accidentally shrank Milo Ventimiglia.

If you're skewing older someone like Mark Strong is a good choice, Michael Fassbender or Timothy Olyphant

Regardless of what you think of the show, Jon Cryer as Lex on Supergirl was fantastic. Seeming harmless if charismatic nerd one moment, utterly charming, narcissistic, doom-bearing bastard the next. I doubt he'd be cast again, but I wouldn't be sad if he did.

I wouldn’t be sad if Gunn’s pal Michael Rosenbaum got another bite at the apple. I was also a fan of Cryer’s Lex

Saw an article that some kid named David Corenswet might be the leading contender to take on the mantle of Superman. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him in anything, but the dude’s 6’4” (same height as Christoper Reeves). So he’s got the height, and he didn’t look too small. I’m sure they could bulk him up further. He’s 29, so not super young.

Anyway, take it with a grain of salt. Or maybe several hundred. Could be interesting, if true.

29 can easily (and often does in Hollywood) play early 20s, which is the age it sounds like Gunn is going for. An actor who's actually 22 is generally playing teenagers still.