I've been moving some things to storage recently in preparation for an upcoming trip, and I unearthed my old 2nd edtion Ravenloft module: Bleak House. I believe that this was one of the more acclaimed modules of that setting back in its day, and I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in playing it PbP if I convert it to the Pathfinder rules.
Now, I haven't been able to find where I stashed the first book of the set yet (there are 3), but I know I have it somewhere. I'm going to be looking for it over the next couple of days, so I'd like to gauge any interest in the game as search. If enough people seem interested but I am unable to locate the rest of the module, I'll still be willing to run a homebrewed Ravenloft arc - I've got several in mind.
Two things bear noting. This would be my first pbp game. I have a feeling I'd function rather well as a PbP GM, as a lot of tabletop games already use mapless combat, and I tend to function at thrice my normal level when opperating with the written word. Also, since playing via forums means less thinking on your feat, I could keep any game that does evolve more open-ended.
However, as mentioned, I've not GMed PbP before, so there are a few things I may need help on, or least need the players to bear with me. I'm uncertain on standard PbP protocol for GMs, such as what rolls the players are privy to and when and how to award experience (do I give it out in the game thread or the OOC thread?) Little things like that might slow things down a bit in the beginning, but I'm sure I'll sort it out before too long!
Secondly, in a Ravenloft game (especially Bleak House!) the party is pretty much going to need a cleric, or at least someone with access to the "restoration" spell line. The module subjects the PCs to conditions that have the potential to flat out ruin a character if they don't have a way to treat it. I'll scale things back a little if we can't find one, but ultimately when I run these games, I tend to take the gloves off. Ability damage and semi-permanent conditions are common-place. This is not to penalize or permanently cripple the PCs, but emphasize the grittines of the setting, and to encourage them to come up with creative way to circumvent these limitations until such a time as they can be repaired. Just letting you know in advance.
So, a little long-winded there, but that's about it. Who's for it?
Those old Ravenloft modules were always tremendous, as I recall. I'd love to get into a slot for the game. I usually play arcane casters, and would probably want to do something in that general area. I've also been toying around with the idea of a paladin/sorcerer/dragon disciple as well.
Long story short, I'd be interested.
Alright, cool. Currently, everything from the core rulebook and APG is fair game except for the summoner and the alchemist. I focus on RP and interesting encounters over hard numbers, so I don't mind the alleged power of the summoner too much, but it seems like eidelons would be a nightmare to deal with on these boards. The alchemist I love, and I feel that they actually fit perfectly into the Ravenloft setting, however, if we ARE running Bleak House, well... Without saying too much, I'll just say that a character that's that reliant on their materials won't work. By the same token, wizards might want spell mastery and any spellcaster should take eschew materials. You'll have to be clever here. Carefully built engines of destruction may find themselves dismantled.
However, if I'm unable to locate that first portion of the module and we go for a home-brewed Ravenloft arc (and I assure you, it will be good. I've designed numerous ones, and my players have always been pleased by the feel) then the alchemist will be fair game.
My general preference is for sorcerers, so relying on spellbooks, etc., isn't generally an issue for me. Depending on the other characters, I would either run a straight sorcerer or the Pal/Sor/DD.
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Don't know if you guys have been paying attention to the threads, but the rogue has taken quite a bashing from numerous posters. I would like to prove them wrong.
I don't have any experience in Ravenloft games. Since they're from 2nd edition, are they generally trap heavy? There are a few rogue builds in the APG that took out trap finding (such as the thug, for example), would you recommend that choice?
I also have extensive experience playing PBP. I can offer you some advice, if you would have them.
Rogues are an iconoclastic Ravenloft class, filling a plethora of roles from thief to monster hunter. The parts of this module I HAVE found aren't exactly overflowing with traps, but I believe the first chapter might favor cautionary PCs.
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This sounds like a cool setting. I'd like to throw my hat in the ring. I am thinking a Cleric or an Oracle.
I'll have to check out the Bleak House background before I submit a background concept though. I've never played in the setting.
Just curious...what level does Bleak House start at? Would this be a point buy or rolling for stats?
I love a dark setting. My suggestion: A local yokel. The brawny farmer's boy from down the road. A no-nonsense tough guy who is more clever than he lets on. With a big scythe.
I believe that Bleak House begins at 5th level, but I've been looking for the first book most of the day and no luck so far. In any case, I'll have to check to see how a conversion of the enemies turns out before determining what an appropriate PC level is.
As far as background goes, all that's required of your characters is that they have some reasoon to be on a boat. Bleak House begins with the PCs already at sea.
I really hope I can find the first half of this module (it really is the best part), but I feel compelled to ask those who have already posted if they are still going to be interested in the setting if I have to resort to a homebrewed game. In this case, I usually like to start at 1st level for several reasons. It really helps drive hope the hostility of the world when I can challenge the PCs with groups of wild animals, for one thing. Ravenloft is repleate with minor horrors that higher level PCs overshadow and never get a chance to experience. Also, I think it's always fun to see characters develop both from a role-playing and mechanical sense. However, I could bump things up to 3rd level if people would prefer.
Again, if the first half of the module does not turn up, there are still plenty of ideas I have. In Ravenloft, there are ultimately 2 types of campaigns that could be run. One is set in the western Core (the Core is the largest landmass in the setting, and the extent of the world as most people know it). This is where the more advanced civilizations lie, with large cosmopolitan cities and a bit of politics. Here you'd likely be facing human opponents, though they may in the end be working at the behest of more supernatural, insidious entities. Regional politics are likely come into play in such a game, and it gives PCs and ample chance to explore the more advanced levels of technology in the game which can be drawn from cultures as late as the early Georgian era. It makes for an interesting departure from the traditional medieval setting, but PCs generally have to tread very carefully. People are extremely guarded all accross the setting, and if characters don't behave themselves they may quickly alienate the "polite society" around them.
The other option would be set in the central core, which is more in lines with a traditional D&D setting. This area is usually heavily forested and the people are extremely superstitious, often struggling to survive from day to day. Monsters are more common out here, and are likely to be your chief opponents. Though undead are probably more common in Ravenloft, I don't like to use them any more often, except perhaps as random encounters, because using skeletons and zombies to try and drive home the dark nature of a world has become a little tired. In such a setting, I'd expect to see classic monsters given dark twists and made truly monstrous.
I'd be fine with homebrewed, if that is your choice, martin...
I would probably be interested. I have a big bad half-orc barbarian that would love to do some bashing. My other favored class would be ranger. Let me know if either of these would fit in. I would play either a homebrew or a canned product. I like the openess of a homebrew. So many more options.
Oh, right, I forgot about starting details. Whatever the starting level ends up being, you'll be using at least 20 point buy. I've been thinking about ways to circumvent the drop in power that comes along with a low-magic setting (magic items are a little harder to come by in Ravenloft), and I'm toying with the notion of using a 25 point buy to give the characters a little extra umph.
This is my most likely solution, though. You are not going to find magic items for sale in stores, and most people aren't going to buy them from you. Potions, low level scrolls are going to about all you'll find, and blacksmiths at large cities might have +1 and +2 items in stock, but never with special abilities. Items will be placed as loot as normal, but probably given a little extra flavor to make them stand out (I almost always give magic items a unique spin anyways. Any item with a special ability is unlikely to function exactly as written. Expect a few unique items as well). If you want a specific item, don't worry, you're not out of luck, you just have to do a little extra work. This is usually going to entail tracking down a spellcaster that can create the item for you, and they probably won't have it on hand. They'll generally create the item for market price, now that it doesn't costs xp (it only costs them half the market price, so the other half is how they profit). You will, however, have to wait for it to be completed.
I would probably be interested. I have a big bad half-orc barbarian that would love to do some bashing. My other favored class would be ranger. Let me know if either of these would fit in. I would play either a homebrew or a canned product. I like the openess of a homebrew. So many more options.
A barbarian could be a great asset in Bleak House due to their reliance on their rage over their equipment. You can pick up a stick and do some damage.
In central Core game, they'd also fit in fine. Western Core I wouldn't disallow it by any means, but you'll want a solid backstory to explain your presence there.
The one thing that wouldn't work is a half-orc, but let me explain why before you get too upset. There are no orcs in Ravenloft, so naturally, half-orcs are also absent. However, there is a PC race called the Caliban that is statistically identical. These are humans that were exposed to a curse or some type of foul magic while still in the womb - often the corrupting influence of a nearby hag. They generally grow larger than normal humans and often develop minor to sever deformities. Not usually accepted in polite society, and still regarded with suspicion (at best) in more rural areas, they often live on the fringes of civilization, some of them becoming bitter hermits.
Quick question. Do Caliban have darkvision? If not, probably will just run a human.
Alright, there seem to be enough interested players to at least start covering the basics. I'll start giving a rundown of the game as best I can. Unfortunately, nearly everything I know about the world as a whole comes from Sword and Sorcery's 3rd ed. Most of what you'll be seeing was produced by them, but I've taken numerous liberties in order to better adapt it to the PF system and power level, and to address some issues that were a little clunky in 3E setting. rendition of the world, which they never actually finished detailing. Rest assured, there is more than enough content to draw from, just letting you know that there is sparse knowledge of few of the outlying areas (mostly around the Nocturnal Sea in the East.
I'll start with the most detailed map I was able to find of the Core. This should give players unfamiliar with the setting a general idea of the geography of the world.
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/PortraitHall/Fos_netbook_gallery/FoS_map s_gallery/Core-after_GC-higher_resolution.png
First of all, the world is not called Ravenloft. Refering to such a place will usually get you blank stares. Most people simply refer to the world as the Core.
You may notice the gray border around the Core. This is a good time to go over one of the most distinct features of Ravenloft: the Mists. Often refered to a the Misty Border, the Mists surround the Core and its seas entirely, and only fools venture into them. They present a powerful avenue of travel, but they are far from reliable, and nightmarish monstrosities lurk within them. When one enters the mists, provided they do not fall to the horrors within them, they may wander for days before emerging somewhere entirely different. Without some means to traverse these fogs, though, you have no control over where you will come out.
There are smaller pockets of land held within the mists, a few of which are known to the residents of the Core. Those that are known are connected to the Core by "mistways," specific portions of the Misty Border that, when entered, will usually deposit you in the same location every time, though they do stray on occasion.
The Mists can also rise up at anywhere and at any time in the mainland, but these incidents are somewhat rare and very localized. A number of strange effects can be attributed to this phenomenon, such as doors to secret rooms appearing and disappearing at certain times of a month, a structure containing more space than should be physically possible, or someone getting losts for days in tiny grove of trees.
Quick question. Do Caliban have darkvision? If not, probably will just run a human.
Yes. Aside from "orc blood," they get all the traits as half-orcs as they are listed in the core rulebook. You may also take any of the racial substitutions in the APG.
If you've still got space, I'd be happy to join in whether you play Bleak House or a homebrewed campaign. Maybe a cleric of Ezra or an inquisitor?
Cleric of Ezra would be great! Tomorrow I'm going to give a brief rundown of the deities and the major regions of the Core for those unfamiliar with them. Due to the number of domains that have to be covered and the relatively low number of gods in Ravenloft, the Church of Ezra is likely going to be split into four distinct relgions - the four sects from the Ravenloft core rulebook.
I believe that places us at 6 players, doesn't it? Provided everyone retains interest, I think that ought to be suitable for the time being.
I was slightly disappointed when I realised this thread wasn't going to be about a Charles Dickens play-by-post game. I read Bleak House just this summer. :-)
Actually, before I start giving an in-depth run down of a campaign world that Paizo doesn't have the rights to, I should probably ask: How detailed am I allowed to get on these forums?
I'm not sure what the official stance is, but the unofficial Mistfinder conversion has been posted up here without problem and I've been playing in a long running Planescape pbp, so I don't think there's any issue with putting material up as long as you aren't copying and pasting the whole thing.
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I am enjoying the details that you have provided. A knowledgeable DM is a always a good thing.
I am going to stay with the Rogue. Looking over the APG archtypes, it is very tempting to do both scout and swashbuckler, but that would remove quite a number of typical rogue abilities and I am not sure I am comfortable with that. I'll have to think about it some more.
I am located on the Eastern Time Zone and can post at least once/day, more if there is combat. In which core does Bleak House take place?
Also, the map doesn't seem to work for me. Anyone else have that problem?
I am enjoying the details that you have provided. A knowledgeable DM is a always a good thing.
I am going to stay with the Rogue. Looking over the APG archtypes, it is very tempting to do both scout and swashbuckler, but that would remove quite a number of typical rogue abilities and I am not sure I am comfortable with that. I'll have to think about it some more.
I am located on the Eastern Time Zone and can post at least once/day, more if there is combat. In which core does Bleak House take place?
Also, the map doesn't seem to work for me. Anyone else have that problem?
I'll see if I can find a better map. As far as Bleak House, characters are going to begin play on the Sea of Sorrows of the coast of Dementlieu. If I recall correctly, they are either en route to or embarking from Port a Lucine.
And I hate to swat this down, but even though I'm allowing the class variants from the APG, I only want one variant class taken per character, thus you could take swashbuckler or scout, but not both.
Yo, martinaj.
Well, I wasn't really up for a regular Pathfinder horror-themed campaign, but ... if it's Ravenloft, that's quite something else.
If you still have a slot left, I'd be happy to join in.
Oh, by the way, James Keegan -- you mentioned a Plancescape game. That's one of my favorite settings! Any chance you folks might have a slot open, or a waiting list in case a vacancy opens up? :)
Hmm. It's been awhile since I read the second edition stuff, but in case I can still get in, how well did Paladins go over in Ravenloft again? With such horror and evil, trying to remain steadfast and play off of the darkness and challenges to the pretty strict morality could be pretty interesting.
Von Doom will be the last player for the time being.
Now, for those familiar with the setting, or who may have heard of some of the mechanics, here are a few of the "special" rules for the setting.
Dark Powers Checks: I rarely use these for PCs, but it happens occasionally. Extremly heinous acts of evil may draw the attention of otherworldly forces, which may see fit to grant you a small boon - though this always is accompanied by a minor curse as well. If you continue on this path, you may find your dark gifts becoming stonger, but your curse grows in severity as well. Don't get too exciting, becuase the gift - and the curse - are always tailored to the individual. Many curses can have minimal mechanical penalty but cripple a specific character. Be forwarned also that if a character fails around six of these, something... special happens, and they become and NPC. I have my own guidelines on what constitutes a Dark Powers Check. They will not be coming into play often, especially for the PCs (you aren't going to be rewarded/cursed for picking someones pocket, which had like a 1-2% chance in previous editions).
Fear and Horror Saves: Another classic of Ravenloft, I hope you aren't too dissapointed by the fact that I no longer use these. I feel they force action on a character, and I prefer to leave that to the players. I find that good descriptions and good roleplaying make these uncecessary.
Madness Saves: These are alive and well. The world of Ravenloft contains things that simply breaks the minds of lesser men. I'm adapting the rules for insanity from the Pathfinder GMG, because it fits so perfectly, but I'll be ramping up the DCs when appropriate. Players may be called upon to make a madness save under the usuall circumstances - such as being the target of an "insanity" spell, but it can also happen when your character experiences an event that is truly world shattering to them, or if they attempt to make contact with an alien mind (don't cast detect thoughts on a plant - or a crazy person, for that matter).
Curses of Vengeance - In my opinion, one of the coolest things about this setting. Anyone can lay curse, even a 1st level commoner, but it has to be justified. This does not function exactly as the Bestow Curse spell. It bestows very specific penalties on the target based on the way in which they have wronged the, umm... cursee. These curses also cannot be broken by normal means - a remove curse spell only grants a 1 day reprieve. Each curse has an escape clause - a method by which the target can lift the curse, usually (but not always) by making some grand gestures of changing their ways. Wording is very important with these. PCs may attempt such a curse themselves, but it's very unlikely to succeed, as they are meant to function as a last resort, and player characters usually have other means to dispense justice.
Planar Travel: This is pretty restricted in the Ravenloft setting. For those of you who don't know why, I think I'd rather leave it up to your characters to find out. Suffice it to say that this seems entirely normal to people living here. From "material plane" that comprises Ravenloft, PCs can only reach the Ethereal Plane and the Plane of Shadow, and they are still tied to Ravenloft then - they cannot use these planes as a jumping off point to travel elsewhere. The spell Astral Projection does not exist. Plane Shift and similar spells function normally, but only grant access to the Ethereal Plane and the Plane of Shadow. There are countless cosmologies that have been theorized over and many speculations on what the afterlife might be like, but no one knows for sure. Most serious scholars scoff at such speculation (many are staunch atheists). The ethereal and the plane of shadow are the only other planes that are confirmed to exist by the denizens of Ravenloft. Here is a relevant feat I'm adding to the game.
Mad Scholar
Prerequisite: Knowledge (Planes) 10 ranks.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Knowledge (Planes) and Knowledge (Arcana) checks. Futhermore, you are becoming familiar with the true nature of Ravenloft and can make Knowledge (Planes) checks to determine lore that is unknown to most beings.
Conjuration: Summoning spells function normally (there is huge speculation on where they come from), but any more substantial conjuration has a few extra consequences, as creatures "called" to Ravenloft find themselves unable to return to their home plane, and will be naturally enraged to discover this.
Teleportation: With access to the Astral Plane being impossible, teleportation in Ravenloft uses the Ethereal Plane for its movement. This has a minimal impact on the functionality of spells and abilities, but it means that teleportation can be blocked by ethereal barriers that sometimes exist cotermineously to the material plane.
Divination: Notoriously unreliable in Ravenloft. While most spells are technically unchanged, you will almost always be given half-truths and potentially misleading information. The higher level the spell you cast (and thus the more information it could reveal) the more you'll likely have to decipher. The major exception to this is alignment detection spells and abilities. Whatever force holds sway over Ravenloft, it seems to want the mortal races to discover the nature of good and evil for itself. Alignment detection - traditionally - has not functioned in ravenloft, though I'm relaxing this restriction a little. Such spells will only detect creatures that are inherently tied to an alignment, namely, creatures that possess the relevant subtype. This restriction also has a hidden advantage - if you detect evil on a normal human and they register, you know they're probably possessed.
So I know I've mentioned this before, but I'd like to recap so players aren't taken by surprise and start rage-quitting. I have a different GM philosophy in games like this. My job is never to kill the PCs, but in Ravenloft, I feel like the characters ought to be struggling for their victories, and the world should present itself in such a way that no creature is written off as "no real threat." You can expect me to be pouring through the rulebooks to find all those dirty little tricks that many players (at least mine) don't often expect from a GM. Poison, disease, and spells such as blindess/deafness are likely to appear far more often than lightning bolts and fireballs. I seek to make the characters really feel the effects of their encounters - it's rarely going to be as simple channeling energy and casting two cure light wounds.
It's your call, DM. I for one don't expect happy fun times in Ravenloft. My experience with that setting is that everything is bleak, desolate, and any victories are hard gained...
Good news. I just found the rest of the module at the bottom of a box in my basement. I'm going to start doing quick conversions to determine what the CRs of key monsters and NPCs will be, and I ought to have starting info up for you guys in half and hour to an hour.
Awesome news...excited to begin. So I guess all we need are starting level and confirmation we are doing 25 point buy and I can start building the sorcerer.
Alright, starting level is 8th, 20 point buy. Starting wealth is 33,000 gold, but no single item can be worth more than 11,000 (if it's a weapon or something and the price of it being masterwork or something pushes it beyond that threshold, that's alright). Core races are allowed (half-orcs are called Calibans), as are all core classes. The cavalier, the witch, the oracle, and the inquisitor are also allowed. You may use the base class variants from the APG as well, but only one per character. Non-evil alignments (but a neutral character can certainly walk the line).
The "common" language is Mordentish. It's considered the language of literature throughout the Core and often spoken in high society. Other notable languages in the area are Lamordian, a highly technical language that allows for exacting detail on matters of science and engineering. Balok is a throaty language filled with hard consonants that originated in the central Core, but has come into use throughout the world as a trade language. Finally, Darkonese fills a similar function further north. It has not spread too far beyond the borders of Darkon, but the vastness of that land cements its importance in the Core.
Your characters, whatever their reasons may be, are aboard a ship known as The Blue Dolphin, which is bound for the cosmopolitan Port-a-Lucine, widely regarded as one of the most culturally advanced cities in the Core. You embarked from the middling town of Mordentshire and have been at sea for three days, scheduled to arrive in another six.
Alright, the OOC post is up and can be found here. I'm going to start working on converting the first third or so (I'm going to do the rest once I get a better feel for how you guys are progressing), and we ought to have the ICC stuff by the middle of this week.
Bronze Draconic Sorcerer on the way. It will probably be tomorrow evening before I commit it to the computer, though.
Grunthor will be ready by tomorrow.