GM Rednal's Cyclopean Deeps (Inactive)

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The discussion thread, which shall be quite important indeed.


Important Reminder: Magic items! If you can craft them by Taking 10, great, you're good. (Note that crafting Vancian items under the Spheres system is possible, but harder than normal, so you'll need to review the site and take that into account.) Otherwise, tell me how many items you want and what your bonuses are, and I'll roll for you here. XD Or, of course, you can simply have purchased them at full price. That's also possible.


Female Elf Witch (Cartomancer) | CN | Init:+5 | HP7/7 | AC:17 T:17 FF:14 CMD:13 | F:+1 R:+3 W:+2[-1 fear]| Perc:+2, low-light| Spells: 1st: Infernal healing | Active: mage armor(1h) | Slumber (DC 16) | Harrow points: 1

So, I'm a bit confused. Do I need Craft Wonderous Item or Forge Ring to craft normal wonderous items like Monk Robe, Boots of Speed etc? Robes and boots are usually crafted with Forge Ring, but in the Vanican crafting system they are crafted with Craft Wonderous. Also, do I need the correct sphere (usually enchantment) to craft with the sphere system? If one of us get the feat, can the others use it to get extra wealth? I'm also considering just dropping the crafting feat to fit in an extra talent.

I'm pretty sure I want Eyes of the Eagle (or a higher bonus item that does the same), Monk's Robe and Boots of Speed, but I'm kinda unsure about the rest of the items. Items I'm considering are a Lucky Horseshoe, Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone and either Gauntlet of Skilled Maneuver or Giant Fists Gauntlets (but items like these are kinda boring, especially considering we already got ABP). A quicken rod or other way to get quicker spells would be quite nice. Does an extend rod actually work the way I want it to? Most of my spells that I want to extend require you to first cast them then you spend a spell point to activate them (either to stop concentrating with alteration or to start glowing brightly with light). If anyone got suggestion for items that would be much appreciated.

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Enough about items... Let's talk about spheres. We should probably coordinate things so we compliment each other rather than all trying to do the same thing. Currently Aleziella is set up with mostly a focus on Alteration, Mind and Life. She also have some Divination, Light and Protection. Most of her spells are buffs, but she also got some offense and quite a bit of healing.

Both light and protection are great on her, but can also be shared with others. Her divination senses are self only, but I'm thinking to pick up the talent to share senses down the line, though I could be convinced to pick it up right away to buff all of us.

Buffs she offers are as follows:

  • Size increases (or decreases) as well as Trip, Ferocity or Rend
  • Effective size increase (which stack with size increase)
  • Insight bonuses to attack, AC and reflex (Self only unless picking up the talent to share senses)
  • Morale to attack, skills, saves, strength and con
  • Armor and Shield bonus to AC (and NA if choosing the subterranean form with alteration)

Does that conflict with what the rest of you have going on?

I'm going to pick up another Life drawback (Limited Restoration [invigorate]) in order to pick up either Restore Movement or Restore Mind. Unless someone picks up fate sphere and freedom from there I'm thinking Restore Movement would be more useful. Aleziella's in combat healing won't be great (3d8+10), but it might be worth it at crucial points, but she'll be able to heal quite well out of combat as well as remove a number of different status effects (including dispel magic).

As I mentioned previously Aleziella currently got one talent too many. If any of you have a suggestion for what to remove that could help me out. Currently I'm thinking it's between Suggestion (through the Empath drawback), Craft Wonderous Item, Vicious Stomp and Powerful Charms.

Future plans for Aleziella spell-wise mostly include picking up expansions to what she got already. Share senses, group alteration, more condition removal with life and probably another offensive options with mind (probably sleep). Maybe I'll pick up destruction along with the one letting you cast touch attacks as a swift action to apply even more debuffs with her strikes.

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So spellcrafting... I'm not entirely sure how this work. I believe we can have up to our casting stat number of spells that are basically just combinations of other spells, is that correct? In order to combine cross sphere spells we need a feat though. What do you think of the following:

  • Combining Restore and Cure from Life. I know there is a talent that does this already, but I'm strapped for talents already. At the moment I'm thinking that I would rather spend a spellcrafting slot instead of a feat on this. Would this have any limitations compared to casting the spells normally, for example would I still be able to remove the extra conditions or healing get dice added from the other life talents? Since I'm thinking to use this in combat it should be maximum a full round action. How many spell points would it cost?
  • Combining Suggestion and Hostility. The idea here is that the targets (who fail their saves) are first compelled to do a action (for example to go hug a team-mate), which upon completion cause them to fly into a murderous rage. Again I'm wondering about the same thing as above about limitations (Group Charm and Powerful Charm) and cost (action and spell points.
  • Lastly I want to combine Courage and Hostility (the powerful version) to provide both buffs to allies at the same time.

I think those are the most interesting options given the talents I have chosen, but I could have missed some cool options, if so I would be happy to know about it.

----

I have more thoughts on mechanical topics, but now I'm going to focus on fleshing out my character. Hopefully I'll get some headway today.


To craft a Vancian item, you need the feat in that item's description. To craft a Spherecasting item, you go by the rules on the Spheres of Power wiki. (They're under "Magical Items")

Spellcrafting of any kind requires the Spellcrafting feat.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

Hello there! Give me a moment to read all of that. Also we should think about coordinating what our characters know of each other in game as well. We've been adventuring together for a while now after all!


By all means, take the time you want to hammer out your backstories and such. XD We're in no big rush, after all.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

@GM Rendal: Alright! Joshua has a Wand of Destruction with a caster lvl of 10 and 4 talents. He can make it in his sleep though. (DC 20 and his Spellcraft is +19).

Everything else I did not purchase yet because I wasn't sure which lists I could look at. The sphere items makes sense given the magic that's preferred but those are some slim pickings. However you might actively dislike how a lot of the other items work. So which list should I shop from?

And third, I'm pretty certain I know the answer but I gotta ask (pretty sure not since it seems to be designed for the conventional weapons), can Joshua attune to his wand as his weapon?

@Aleziella: Hehe... Funny story... As a Lycanthrope character Joshua already has a wereowl form he'll be taking regularly that gives him good mobility and defense, so Alteration won't be sticking much to him. I did also pick up healing since the small group composition made it more likely it will be necessary but what I picked up was out of combat healing.

My guy can heal any single person that was chosen to full with a single spell point... and four minutes judging by our max HP. I can give someone Fast heal 3 for seven minutes in total. While I might be subjecting him to the Lycanthrope rule of 'his alteration only works on him' it doesn't mention other spheres in that rule, and I'm not taking any bonus for it anyway. I did pick up the Subterranean form too though because that will be awesome but also definitely out of combat most of the time.

What do you think about the Life sphere though? Think I should take a look at another sphere or does two healers make sure that no ones dying in case of emergencies?


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

This second post will be for story stuff!

The most obvious part of his personality is a slightly brash and very direct sort of nature. Despite being a self proclaimed hunter he has no skills with sneaking about. He prefers to track a target down and shoot it. Despite this, though, the group would know he is veeeeery knowledgeable. I don't know if it came as a surprise to your characters but it comes as a surprise to most since he acts more like a barbarian then a learned man.

As for his backstory, Joshua is pretty open about what he is and what he does. He's achieved a level of control over his curse that makes him fairly confident no one will bother him... more then they already would with him being a tiefling. He's bragged more then once about killing his father and slowly hunting down cult member after cult member, usually over drinks or even for drinks as he slowly enthralls his a bar with his stories. Slowly... and with drunk people. Master of the art he is not. About the only thing he's kept to himself is the fact that he had a lover before going on the hunt and that she's dead now. Even when drunk he won't share that.

How do you think they all met, way back when? How do you think our characters will get along? Is it a full 'friendship is magic' sort of thing or a 'well I hate his guts but there's not many people as competent as him' with a dash of begrudging respect?


In Automatic Bonus Progression, Attunement is effectively your enhancement bonuses... and no, that doesn't apply to wands. XD You could, however, attune a dagger as a backup weapon or something, just in case you find yourself in a tight spot.

You're free to shop from the normal list of items, but I do prefer that you focus more on passive effects than spell-in-a-can items.

Another note! You may not want to spend ALL of your money, because gold is a currency that works in many places...


HP: 120/120 | AC: 27 / T: 14 /F:25 | F: +11 R: +8 W: +15; +2 Fear, +4 Grip, +2 specified opp | CMD: 27; 31 disarm,34 sunder | Init: +15 | Perc: +27, darkvision 120 ft., scent

Borus' heaviest Sphere focus is on Mind, with some abilities from Time and Enhancement(restricted to bodies/no items)as well. He's a pretty good "debuffer" against creatures with minds, and can rob senses or slow on top of the mind stuff. He's also a pretty good buffer with haste, powerful inspiration(+2d4+5 to a roll after it's made), touch of luck, and 100 minute ability enhancements.

Healing-wise, Borus can channel, but not selectively, so it'll be most useful in vs undead fights or out of combat when everyone is injured.

I've still got to tweak Borus' statblock a bit.

EDIT: I'd also purchased a CLW wand and one of Enlarge Person, but if you prefer, Rednal I can skip them. (The Enlarge person seems less useful with Aleziella being able to provide similar boons anyway).


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

@Rednal: Aside from a boots of get the frick out of a grapple most of my choices were, I believe, magical items that gave a bonus to skills. That fine for passive effects? And if you prefer him not to have the boots of get out of jail free because short range teleport I can grab something else with that coin.

And I actually can't spend all of the gold anyway! Since I don't really need a weapon or anything my guy has a lot of gold laying around. Hrrrm... As for the other... I'm thinking he'll attune to his fists. Cause he's not afraid to punch no one! Dragons? Yeah, he'll step back and use his wand. But some random guy with a knife? ... Still prefer to use his wand but he'll punch em if he has too!

@Borus: Does touch of luck actually give a luck bonus too? Cause if so it won't stack with my guys Luck ability. I only have a limited use of it a day anyway but it's something I'll need to stay aware of if you drop it on us.


Yeah, skill bonuses are pretty good to have. XD And wands of CLW are fine - that's pretty much a healing staple. In general, I'm not too worried about low-level items.


HP: 120/120 | AC: 27 / T: 14 /F:25 | F: +11 R: +8 W: +15; +2 Fear, +4 Grip, +2 specified opp | CMD: 27; 31 disarm,34 sunder | Init: +15 | Perc: +27, darkvision 120 ft., scent

Touch of Luck lets you roll any d20 rolls twice and keep the best for one round. It is a Domain ability, kind of like the reverse of Pugwampi's Luck. It's a touch and standard action, but I've seen it used to great effect by a cleric or two.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

Alright, Joshua is now much better at a few things. Moved two skill points away from Acrobatics for Linguistics and Escape Artist and shifted my Background Lore skills into Perform Oratory, because knowledge actually covers both of the things I had lore in, and got several passive skill items and a foppish feathered hat of comprehend languages.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

So Borus! What would Joshua know about your character?


HP: 120/120 | AC: 27 / T: 14 /F:25 | F: +11 R: +8 W: +15; +2 Fear, +4 Grip, +2 specified opp | CMD: 27; 31 disarm,34 sunder | Init: +15 | Perc: +27, darkvision 120 ft., scent

Borus is pretty open with his past, at least to those he'd consider friends, so pretty much anything in the background Brutus could share.

He's got a sarcastic streak, but it's mostly play rather than any meanness, unless it involves talk of gods, in which case Borus is on the bitter side. You would get the feeling that a lot of this stems from a carefully guarded broken heart. Borus likes to flirt, but shies away from any serious romance.

You probably spend most mornings wishing Borus had not decided to give up coffee before this trek, but he gets cheerier as the day goes on.

He's a badass with that huge orcish spear/ram thingie.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

I imagine Joshua would get along well with the hating the gods thing, considering how he was cursed by a follower of one who most think of as a more neutral sort. I also imagine he'd delight in drinking caffeinated beverages every morning in front of Borus with a chipper attitude.

Joshua's think is mostly his wand. He draws it fast and lets loose a shot and things tend to die. Everyone in the party would know Joshua is also a Wereowl of a sort. He claims to have 'sealed off' the curse with some magic he found once, but by now the group is probably aware that found is probably an understatement involving lots of research and study. He can shapeshift though! Become a creature with wings and a tougher hide. It mostly looks the same. Even his hat fits on it's head just fine.


Of course, there's only so much use for flying in a big series of caves and tunnels, but there's a few places where... well, you'll see. XD


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

True, true! But if a tunnel is tall enough flying can still be somewhat useful. Not to mention the form in question is just his primary choice. I could pick a different feature of the owl. Depending on what I pick I might make him practice it first. For instance he might practice mixing his subterranean form with his Owl form. I imagine that will take a while though. -nods- Mechanically he can do it now, I mean, but he's never thought to do it in character.


You can do some *weird* stuff with Alteration if you put your mind to it. XD Especially once the handbook comes out...


Female Elf Witch (Cartomancer) | CN | Init:+5 | HP7/7 | AC:17 T:17 FF:14 CMD:13 | F:+1 R:+3 W:+2[-1 fear]| Perc:+2, low-light| Spells: 1st: Infernal healing | Active: mage armor(1h) | Slumber (DC 16) | Harrow points: 1

Today was quite a busy day. I've not been able to finish as much as I want, but I did manage to craft a start of a background for Aleziella. It's nowhere near complete, but it's something.

@Joshua, Borus: Aleziella is a High Priestess of Yidhra. What sort of relationship do you feel is appropriate for our characters given your view of religion?

Aleziella will have natural flight if she's in her own or blank form (though sadly monk bonus speed does not apply to fly speed, so it won't be very fast).

@Borus: Aleziella will only have 24 spells per day, so might not be able to provide enlarge person absolutely all the time. Then again, enlarge probably can't be used all the time either.

@Joshua: Healing 210 HP won't be needed very often. If you only plan to use healing outside of combat then I don't think the second greater healing will be needed (or even the first really). You'll probably be better served to put those talents somewhere else. I haven't really looked over all the spheres, so I don't know what would fit best with what else we got going on. It seems to me like we got plenty of buffs and mind affecting effects, but there are still quite a few untouched spheres to chose from. It seems like we all have a bit of healing.

@Rednal: I'm still wondering if a Rod of Extend would work with alteration sphere spells and encompassing light?

It seems to me like we have no one who are really good at Diplomacy. Joshua got +15, but that's not amazing for our level. Maybe it's an idea to pick up some way to boost that? Though between Suggestion and Enthrall that might not be needed.

@Rednal: How big are the tunnels? For combat purposes Aleziella would often want to be huge, but that's not really practical everywhere. Subterranean form grants a burrow speed (meaning you can burrow 45 ft in 6 seconds and not be flat-footed by doing so). Would being in such a shape mean she can stay partially inside the walls to fight, reducing the problem of size some?


The Extend Spell metamagic can be applied to any appropriate sphere ability.

The tunnels will vary in size. The current tunnel is 10 feet wide. ...Note that the walls are mostly rock, though, so Burrow doesn't work on them.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

@Aleziella: An interesting query. I'd say that he's dealt with far too much prejudice to judge someone harshly, particularly when said person is of good alignment. And he's also a scholar and a bit of a smart ass. He'd probably point out that having a trusted friend who hates her god, and gods in general, would be just counter intuitive enough to fit right in with Yidhra.

As to the spheres you are correct. It is a lot of healing but I did design him in a vacuum. That said, being able to have full health at the start of every combat is useful. I'm thinking I might go Protection though. He's learned a lot about wards and the like in his stime studying his curse so it'd make sense if he had some knowledge of them. I also personally enjoy both the greater barrier ability. It doesn't do any damage but it is very good for crowd control, and I think it's a different kind then other members use so it won't overlap any.

As far as Enthralling or charming I think our friend the half-orc is pretty darn good at that.


HP: 120/120 | AC: 27 / T: 14 /F:25 | F: +11 R: +8 W: +15; +2 Fear, +4 Grip, +2 specified opp | CMD: 27; 31 disarm,34 sunder | Init: +15 | Perc: +27, darkvision 120 ft., scent

Aleziella could just keep saying "She said you'd say that."

That would drive Borus crazy.

Alternatively, she might recognize something in Borus' magic that gives her a clue to its source; which is to say she might be in on the joke.

Borus will be spending time testing her faith and trying to free her from her worship. He means it in a sincere and friendly way, but I could see where she might be aggravated by it as well.

In his viewpoint, clerics/paladins being "cut off" from their powers "by the gods" are just denying that it actually comes from within them and not from an external source. He points to himself as evidence that so-called Divine magic can be done without faith in a higher being or beings.

***************

Yeah, I've got a good grip on Mind-based powers alrighty. I don't think +10 or +15 Diplomacy is too shabby anyway, and even if it were, I can boost it by 2d4+5 with Inspiration if needed.


Nah, that bonus should be fine - and I very specifically do not want you to min-max. XD Diversifying your skills will be more useful anyway.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

So is switching up Joshua's life sphere alright so we've got more diversity there too? For the most part we work out pretty well in regards to complimenting each others skills but I want to make sure that extra step is okay with you.


You can change your chosen Spheres right now, yeah. ^^ We haven't really started yet, and this is a good time to get things sorted out.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

Hrrrm... My changes will free up five magic talents, since I'm also actually going to get rid of Subteranean form. He has no reason to actually have that and it means I can get a talent that might be more appropriate... Or at least fun!

The first three are going into Protection, Greater Barrier and Distant protection. It will let him make up to 70 feet of barrier with 70 hit points. Very nice.

That leaves two though. I was thinking... I have no idea what to spend them on. XD I'm open to suggestions that might fit Joshua while I sift through the spheres and see if there's anything appropriate to take.

Edit: Given the dark nature of Joshua's magical history as well as the many forbidden texts he's studied, perhaps the Death Sphere and the Lingering Necromancy talent? I like the idea of him having an undead mook or two around. They won't be very useful as more then distractions but as a guy who uses a wand, sometimes that's all you need.


HP: 120/120 | AC: 27 / T: 14 /F:25 | F: +11 R: +8 W: +15; +2 Fear, +4 Grip, +2 specified opp | CMD: 27; 31 disarm,34 sunder | Init: +15 | Perc: +27, darkvision 120 ft., scent

GM Rednal,
It's ok if we look at the various new Spheres supplements and change things regarding our talents in the next few days then, right?


@Borus: Of course! ...Note that the material from the supplements (except setting-specific stuff, I think) is on the Wiki (although I totally encourage buying them anyway and helping to support the creators - after all, that helps ensure we get the REST of the content).

@Joshua: The best way to pick Spheres is to start by saying "It would be really cool if I could..." and going from there. XD Basically, what do you WANT Joshua to be capable of?


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

That's basically what I did for his wereowl form! XD Hrrm... It'd be really cool if he had a few butlers that were undead. Some nice solid mooks willing to stand between him and the baddies and take a few lumps and then carry his stuff afterward.

Question! Is the permanent undead advanced talent an option? It'd be nice for saving up spell points for other things... Not that he actually needs to use that many in a given day but as is he'd be spending 2 per just to keep them following along on a given day.


Permanent undead is, sadly, not an option. For various reasons, though, they might be a bad idea anyway. XD This will make more sense as you explore.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

Hrrrm... Well I'm stuck now on the idea of him having a mook of some kind... So it'd be cool if... he had a mook... and the best for that is probably conjuration. I'm guessing that an Undead conjuration would probably have the same bad results, i.e. probably going to be controlled by an enemy monster of some kind or piss one off, so... hrrrm... something questionable in nature that's not undead... Soo... Oooh! An empty suit of armor. Something he found on one of his forbidden knowledge quests and learned how to summon to stand between him and the baddies.

How does that sound, GM?


You could probably Conjure some kind of armored suit, yes. XD That's a fun Sphere.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

It looks like! I feel bad for this armored suit character too. It won't deserve being a mook.


Pick your Spheres right and it'll be an Elite Mook. ^^


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

He's mostly done now. Realized about halfway through he needed Shadow Companion just to get dark vision. So now he's more of a semi ethereal suit of armor. Spent two talents (dropping plant from alteration) to give him Boon Companion and Lingering, so he'll stick around on the cheap. Three of his feats went into Armor proficiencies (along with 16k for an adamantine full plate set) and the last feat got him the Archon Chain.

It actually works out since Shadow Companion means he takes half damage from corporeal attacks.

Basically once a turn when standing next to an ally he can redirect an attack to him. The attack has to beat his AC (not that hard, it's only a 26 which could be better at level 10) but he'll then take the hit. Only thanks to shadow companion, he takes half. And then another -3 because I spent a crap ton on his armor for the theme. XD


Of course, it'll also *deal* half damage to corporeal stuff... XD But that's not necessarily bad if it's mainly meant to be a tank.


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

Yeah. Yeah... Well he wasn't really meant to do much damage anyway. I don't have the talents to pour into making him a monster melee combatant and we don't really need one of those, already having three monsters of the combat damage. This guy is basically just a shadowy metal wall of damage stopping. Not to mention he's going to have a 17 strength. Plenty enough strength to carry Joshua's camping gear and loot. Perfect mook material.

Added a cool picture of what I basically imagine 'Tim' to look like. And then Joshua's wand for good measure because I had pictures of other things so why not.


Female Elf Witch (Cartomancer) | CN | Init:+5 | HP7/7 | AC:17 T:17 FF:14 CMD:13 | F:+1 R:+3 W:+2[-1 fear]| Perc:+2, low-light| Spells: 1st: Infernal healing | Active: mage armor(1h) | Slumber (DC 16) | Harrow points: 1

I must admit, I didn't look much at the conjuration sphere. It's not what I imagine for this character. I think it should work well, certainly something different than what the rest of us are doing. Isn't there a feat that lets you taunt with diplomacy or intimidate? Won't armor proficiencies automatically advance, saving you two feats? There are a bunch of maneuvers that help with protecting allies I believe. If you pick Martial Training you could use some of those. Not sure if the companion will have high enough modifiers to make a difference in that regard though.

About maxing skills vs diversifying: Some skills, for example acrobatics go against scaling characteristics of enemies, like CMD. They'll be much more useful if maxed, than with only a couple points. Skills is unfortunately an area where my character is weak. Hard to do absolutely everything.

I'm thinking to buff up IC shortly... I'm strongly considering going for large size, it'll increase my damage and reach quite a bit. I should be able to attack above the rest of you with the increased size. Though what exactly I do depends on the answer to the next question I guess.

Burrow not working makes me wonder if I should swap out the subterranean form for earth elemental. That'll be able to go through rock, right?

Can I use natural attacks together with unchained flurry (at a -5 as usual). I can't find a limitation on it, but I mighty be looking the wrong place.


1) Antagonize lets you upset enemies, although it's not *quite* the same thing as Taunting them.

2) Armor proficiencies don't automatically advance unless a class or ability specifically allows it.

3) Yes, Earth Elemental can let you go through rock, since it gives you Earth Glide (note that you can't apply that as a trait, you have to actually spend a spell point and transform).

4) Flurry of Blows does not naturally permit you to use natural attacks with it. However, the Feral Combat Training feat will let you add one natural attack to the list of weapons you can use (i.e. your Unarmed Strike and weapons with the Monk quality).


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

Didn't think of maneuvers! Not sure what I'll do when he gets another feat but it turns out Archon Justice actually has another ability! When he does block an attack, and if he does take damage, allies adjacent to that enemy can take AoO's. So he does help with the damage department a bit. In a very strange 'I'll hold his sword in my gut' way.


Female Elf Witch (Cartomancer) | CN | Init:+5 | HP7/7 | AC:17 T:17 FF:14 CMD:13 | F:+1 R:+3 W:+2[-1 fear]| Perc:+2, low-light| Spells: 1st: Infernal healing | Active: mage armor(1h) | Slumber (DC 16) | Harrow points: 1

I'll swap to earth elemental then.

I'll take the drawback to remove suggestion since I can't use spellcraft it together with hostility without the feat and Borus got it as well. That should bring my feats/talents in line.

So, I've looked at crafting magic items. The way I understand craft wonderous item, you need the base sphere, but not the actual talents in order to create an item. Is that correct? I'm a bit unsure how to calculate complexity and what is possible though. What would the following cost (obviously dependent on number of uses per day):

1) A wonderous item that casts detect magic. What would it cost if I wanted it to do relatively fast?

2) A wonderous item creating a binding light in a cone as per the Bound Light and Illuminate talents. I imagine a holy symbol would be cool for this. What would the DC be and/or what would it cost to increase it? Do wonderous items use your casting stat and caster level? This item would allow Aleziella to have some form of crowd control versus mind immune enemies. Could I create this at caster level 1 or does it have to be higher? 4 complexity sounds little (1 base +2 for Bond Light and 1 for Illuminate) as the cost would be 4*200=800 per use per day. So for 4000 I could get 5 uses per day (to pick a number). Could it be possible to make this as a swift action (increasing the complexity by 2 perhaps)?

3) I believe there is no talent for looking through doors and other solid objects, but it wouldn't be too weird to have an item that did that, it's not really more powerful than the talents already there, but it might be quite useful for exploring dungeons or tunnels. I guess I have the same question for other senses like termorsense and blindsight.

@All: An idea just struck me. I could pick the lovesick drawback for Aleziella, but with the twist that it would count both Joshua and Borus. Would that be something you all would be comfortable with? I'm thinking that Aleziella would be pretty much unable to chose which to purse. You did mention some other relationships though...


Wandslinger/Bard 10 | HP: 110/110 | AC: 28 [30] / T: 21 / 21 [23]: [7 / DR: Silver], Resist: 5 Cold, Elec, Fire | Fort: +10, Ref: +16, Will: +12 | M. Atk: +9, R. Touch: +18 | CMB: +9, CMD: 25 | Init: +8, Perception: +28 (+31 vs traps), See In Darkness | Luck 12/12 day, Spell Points 11/12 day, Grit 2/2 day | Feathered Hat of Foppishness | Tin Man | Wand

There is a pair of gloves that let you look through up to five feet of material. Gloves of Reconnaissance. I thought about getting them honestly but Joshua is a more of a kick down the door sort of guy once he's sure there aren't traps.


@Aleziella: Technically, the only things you EVER need is the feat and a good Spellcraft score. And materials. XD You can add in talents you don't have by adding 5 to the difficulty to create the item.

1) This would be crafted as a Rod, I think, if you want it at-will. The cost would be 9000 GP to craft it (1000 x Complexity 1 because that's the basic power x Caster Level 9). This would still have the full ten-minute casting time. To do it fast, you'd need to apply the Fast Divination talent twice, raising its complexity to 3, so the price would be 27,000 GP, and you'd still have to spend a Spell Point to do it fast.

2) Yes, I think the base Complexity there would be 4. Note that you cannot have a Caster Level for the item that's lower than its complexity... and if the Caster Level is low, the Save DCs are going to be pretty low, too, so enemies can easily escape from them. So for that item, its crafting price would be 400 x 4 (Complexity) x 4 (Caster Level) x 5 (Uses/Day), and a base price of 32,000 GP (twice that on the open market). I don't think it allows for reducing the casting time unless there's an applicable talent, and here, there isn't.

3) As far as I know, there are no talents to let you bypass the normal restrictions on Divinations. Note that Senses are not limited by materials the way Divinations are.


Female Elf Witch (Cartomancer) | CN | Init:+5 | HP7/7 | AC:17 T:17 FF:14 CMD:13 | F:+1 R:+3 W:+2[-1 fear]| Perc:+2, low-light| Spells: 1st: Infernal healing | Active: mage armor(1h) | Slumber (DC 16) | Harrow points: 1

Bound Light entangles without a save, so it would still be useful without a higher level (though the chance of staggering would be low). Though reading the talent more closely, it's actually just the target that is bound, not anyone in the light (as with for example blinding light, but that requires a DC), so I guess this doesn't actually work the way I want it to... The DCs from any item is going to be incredibly low regardless since you'll never get to add casting stat to it.

400 is the price for buying a wonderous item, it's only 200 (times level, times complexity, times uses) for crafting.

I did mean to make a linited use detect magic item. Craft rod requires level 11 anyway, so I can't get it. Is there any reason it has to be 9th level, or can I make it level 1?

That I can make stuff from other spheres makes things more complicated... I don't really know what most spheres do. Of course I can chose to not look at them, but now I kinda want to... Probably something from warp at least.

The rules state that you can do unique changes to items. I figured lowering action cost standard -> move -> swift was sorta similar to increasing duration or range. Of course any unique changes is up to the DM, so if you don't like this then it's not possible.

I did mean to make a sense that give x-Ray vision. I guess I'll stick to the defined senses.

About Gloves of Reconnaissance, the pre-errata version was awesome. The post errata version is probably too expensive for what it does. I might get it regardless. It would be nice if I could buy the pre-errata version instead.


Anything that improves action economy is VERY powerful. The best way to create such an effect is to apply the Quicken Spell metamagic to the item, and price it accordingly. (You're not really supposed to allow such a change another way when there's an existing method for doing it. XD)

Gloves of Reconnaissance are post-errata. Honestly, the original ones probably were too cheap for that sort of effect, and they're still a pretty decent tool if you think you're in front of a major foe, especially since you can be more generous with your wealth now that you don't need the Big 6.


Also, let me know when you think you're ready to get started, and we can *really* get this going. We're still waiting on you, I think, Alezi.


Female Elf Witch (Cartomancer) | CN | Init:+5 | HP7/7 | AC:17 T:17 FF:14 CMD:13 | F:+1 R:+3 W:+2[-1 fear]| Perc:+2, low-light| Spells: 1st: Infernal healing | Active: mage armor(1h) | Slumber (DC 16) | Harrow points: 1

Yeah I know. I'm sorry for dragging. This weekend was rough. I had expected to have a lot more free time than I ended up having.

I've pretty figured out what items I want:

Sure items:
Boots of Speed (6000 GP Crafted, DC 25, CL 10 + 1 component)
Monk’s Robe (6000 GP Crafted, DC 25, CL 10 + 1 component)
Lucky Horseshoe (3400 GP Crafted, DC 24, CL 9 + 1 component)
Spellguard’s Bracers (2500 GP Crafted, DC 24, CL 4 + 2 components)
Eyes of the Eagle (1250 GP, crafted, DC 18, CL 3 + 1 component)
Gloves of Reconnaissance (1000 GP Crafted, DC 18 , CL 3 + 1 component)
12000+12000+6800+5000+2500+2000=40300 GP

That accounts for 40 300/77 500. I'm thinking I either want an item that confers a miss chance or a emergency teleport item, though sadly I can't afford both. What do you think of the following item?:
Penrose painting wrote:

Penrose painting (A painting of a set of impossible stairs with equally impossible people. It’s activated by a simple prayer to Yadhira once per day and once activated the people starts moving within the picture. The features of the user seem to distort and blur, appearing to shift randomly several feet from side to side at the blink of an eye. It confers the effect of the After Image talent at CL 9 for 9 hours once activated (35% miss chance). Complexity is 9 (1 base + 2 after time + 2*3 increases in duration), cost 16200 GP (9 complex * 200 * 9 CL), DC 24, CL 9 + 1 component (time sphere))

I was wondering about the Lovesick drawback, but none of you answered if you thought it was a good idea. I guess I should go with something else. Is Naive ok?

I'm still writing on my backstory. Hopefully I'll be able to get a good chunk today to finish it up. I had expected to get more free time over the weekend and have it finished already, but sadly that was not the case.

Would a huge earth elemental be able to attack from within the wall in this kind of area btw?


I think my followers should learn to spell my name. o wo

Also, you forgot the cardinal rule of pricing items - check existing items first, which is doubly true because existing items are still available in this game. The Minor Cloak of Displacement has a weaker effect and a higher price, which is a sure-fire sign that using the table for a custom item is inappropriate. It's not quite as good as the major cloak (which has a stronger effect but a relatively short daily duration), so a more appropriate price would be 74,000 GP. That's splitting the difference between the Major and Minor Cloaks of Displacement, and then doubled because the item is apparently slotless (which is a cost common to both Vancian and Sphere crafting - slots are an intentional limit, and avoiding them is pricey).

A Huge Earth Elemental could attack from within the wall, but not without exposing itself, and your personal transformation does not grant you tremorsense, so you'd take some major penalties on your accuracy. Also, you have to end your turn either inside the wall or outside of it - no "popping your head out" to improve accuracy. XD Some people have tried that, but that's not how the abilities work. (Also, note that many of the creatures here live underground and are used to dealing with things that can hide in the walls. I wouldn't rely too heavily on that strategy if I were you.)

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