How does Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain's Weapon Training work?

I'm not sure how this ability works and I've found different interpretations regarding it. So first, let's look at the ability.

Weapon Training (Ex): At 5th level, a Molthuni arsenal chaplain gains weapon training as per the fighter class feature, but the benefits of this weapon training apply only to the his sacred weapons (weapons with which the warpriest has taken Weapon Focus). This ability replaces channel energy.

I can see two main interpretations of this:

Interpretation 2: "Your sacred weapons are their own weapon group", meaning that all of your sacred weapons benefit from this ability, regardless of what fighter weapon group they are in. This interpretation is more frontloaded, giving you a potentially wider list of useful weapons in your artifical group, but would mean that you don't get further weapon groups that could be used for advanced weapon training.
Focused Quote: the benefits of this weapon training apply only to the his sacred weapons

Not very helpful but I agree it is unclear. Given the amount the warpriest is giving up for this ability I Would go for option 1 so the player can gain advanced weapon training , but I have no idea what the RAW is.

I find it troublesome that you are never explicitly told to treat your sacred weapons as a weapon group, but somehow this seems to be the more popular interpretation.

Based on the ruling on it for PFS I assume it works in manner 1. But there has been a lot of back and forth I'll see what I can dig up.

Looking at it again , I think that option 1 is defeinetly right, you could tale Weapon training (hammers) even if your only weapon focus was Longsword this would be stupid as you could not then gain any benefit from the weapon training, but I think legal.

So I think the way a chaplain would take this is Weapon training(the group which includes his sacred weapon) and then take advanced weapon training with the later advances , unless he chooses to take a 2nd weapon group which corresponds with a 2nd weapon focus

Here was John's post basicly saying they stopped it because unless your taking extra weapon focus feats they have a spare group at level 9 to just blow on AWT.

Kevin Willis wrote:

So the Molthune Arsenal Chaplain warpriest can't take the Advances Weapon Training feats.

What about the Myrmidarch magus and the Sohei monk? Both of those archetypes get Weapon Training as a class feature.

Both of those archetypes qualify. The Molthuni arsenal champion does not simply because it is a false choice; they only get weapon training for weapons for which they have Weapon Focus, so should such a warpriest not take further Weapon Focus feats, they effectively have a "spare" weapon group that's not applying to anything starting at level 9. Using that to purchase an advanced weapon training trick is basically free--or would be.

Edit: Got scooped by the above quote.

The text from the PFS document looks like it could support either interpretation.

The Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain does not qualify for the Advanced Weapon Training on pages 18-19

So, this text could be because 1 is true, but PFS felt it was too powerful to allow. Although strangely, the myrmidarch and sohei can still benefit from it. Or, this text could just be an affirmation that 2 is true and you can't qualify because you never get further groups of weapons.

So, John's quote seems to support interpretation 1, but he thinks this is too powerful. It seems he didn't consider the possibility of a warpriest with multiple sacred weapons from different fighter weapon groups.

That's why I linked Johns quote. Sohei and Myrmidarch actually get training with every weapon they have training for but since MAC only gets it with weapons they have WP Focus with PFS considered it a false choice since no one is probably spending a feat and a class ability just for one more weapon with training.

That sounds unfortunate for some sword and board warpriest who wanted to have weapon training with both his sword and shield.

But I guess that's just a limitation of PFS.

Actually, I'm thinking of it wrong. The warpriest can still have weapon training in both, picking up the second group as normal at 9. He just can't benefit from advanced weapon training in either.

I always interpreted it as "gets weapon training bonus but only with sacred weapons (or weapons he has weapon focus in)" but also that he qualifies to spend a feat on the Advanced Weapon Training feat, but not that he can trade anything in (he doesn't get anything to trade) for AWT like a regular fighter could.

I always interpreted it as "gets weapon training bonus but only with sacred weapons (or weapons he has weapon focus in)" but also that he qualifies to spend a feat on the Advanced Weapon Training feat, but not that he can trade anything in (he doesn't get anything to trade) for AWT like a regular fighter could.

But that's PFS only based on Johns quote. In a home game at 9th you can choose a group and take another weapon focus or you can choose an AWT just like anyone else.

Melkiador Well he can but he has to either pick it as a feat or wait till his next WT to swap it out.

I'm pretty sure the feat is also on page 19, though. So unless there's another quote I'm not aware of, I don't know if you can take the feat either.

Claxon wrote:

I always interpreted it as "gets weapon training bonus but only with sacred weapons (or weapons he has weapon focus in)" but also that he qualifies to spend a feat on the Advanced Weapon Training feat, but not that he can trade anything in (he doesn't get anything to trade) for AWT like a regular fighter could.

But that's PFS only based on Johns quote. In a home game at 9th you can choose a group and take another weapon focus or you can choose an AWT just like anyone else.

Melkiador Well he can but he has to either pick it as a feat or wait till his next WT to swap it out.

That was my interpretation before (at least before I had seen) John's quote, as far as I'm aware.

See this thread where I asked about it.

I know John said they were looking into that I'll look for that quote as well.

I'm just catching up on this thread and recalled clarifying this point before, so I'm glad that Kevin found that post. Looking back at it, I believe I understand the issue that folks are bringing up: that the arsenal champion should be able to take the Advanced Weapon Training feat, even if they aren't able to gain advanced weapon training options by nature of gaining additional warpriest levels. Am I following the concern correctly?

Depending on the resolution, KingofAnything may be right that it's better moved to the Campaign Clarifications document.

Best I can find right off hand but they are aware of the disconnect.

It works like option 1, which is the same as the Two Handed fighter archetype. Pick your groups, but only certain weapons in the group work for the training.
The issue is, that MOST WP wouldn't have more than 1 sacred weapon, thus the second+ groups are likely to go to groups that you'll never bother use (not like the fighter really does any different, they were biting at the bit to trade away other groups for ANYTHING else)
So rather than being a false choice like the fighter it's a clear choice for the WP and thus it is banned in PFS.

Technically he qualifies for the feat and for the free swaps, BUT in PFS currently both are banned, they might open up the feat, they need to decide balance wise and who has the toys wise if they want to.

The issue is, that MOST WP wouldn't have more than 1 sacred weapon

Actually, I suspect that most warpriests would have 2 sacred weapons, because you get one from weapon focus and one from your deity's favored weapon, and most of the favored weapons aren't very good. But it is true that most warpriests would only ever focus on one of their two sacred weapons, unless they are a sword and shield fighter or a switch-hitter.