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Mathmuse wrote:

Leaving your feat partially undefined with "(from 1 to 3, depending on GM's choice)" would lead to discomfort for both player and GM. Pick a number. Failed Student has a tougher prerequisite than Arcane Talent, so it should be stronger than Arcane Talent. On the other hand, it would be strange for it to grant more cantrips than Extra Cantrips or Orisons, so you should limit it to two cantrips at most.

Another big question is if a class, such as Alchemist, Bloodrager, Paladin, or Ranger does not have any 0-level spells in their spell list, then from which list is the 0-level spells selected? I created a Bloodrager archetype that gave it cantrips, and since bloodrager is a barbarian/sorcerer hybrid, I used the sorcerer/wizard list. Yet the Bloodrager playtest had been with magus spells, so perhaps the magus list would have been more appropriate.

If the class is an archetype that loses cantrips from a class that ordinary has cantrips, do the cantrips come from the original list?


Failed Student
You were inducted into a Magical Academy, Tradition, or Apprenticeship at a young age, but turned out to have little talent for the rote lessons and memorization. You did manage to remember a few of the simpler tricks though.
Caster Level of 1+, Does not normally have access to level-0 spells
When you select this feat, choose Arcane or Divine.
For Arcane, spells are drawn from Wizard/Sorcerer Spell lists.
For Divine, Spells are drawn from Cleric/Druid Spell lists
Select 2 Cantrips or Orisons (level-0 spells), you may cast these spells using your Caster Class's mechanics. (For Instance, a Warlock would cast them as Invocations, using his Charisma score as his casting ability score.) This Feat can only be taken once.

I'm attempting to homebrew a feat to grant usable Cantrips for a character concept that it makes sense to have them, but doesn't.

For Context: I'm building a Variant, Demon-free Warlock that is a representation of an internal well of Arcane energy. Part of his backstory is that he was taken in as an apprentice by an Elven Wizard, but couldn't handle the more esoteric complexities of the craft, since everything for him is instinctual and just calling up effects from the aether. He uses this, with a few exceptions, to shoot magic lasers.

This is what I came up with:
Failed Student

You were inducted into a Magical Academy, Tradition, or Apprenticeship at a young age, but turned out to have little talent for the rote lessons and memorization. You did manage to remember a few of the simpler tricks though.


Caster Level of 1+, Does not normally have access to level-0 spells


Select (from 1 to 3, depending on GM's choice) Cantrips or Orisons (level-0 spells), you may cast these spells using your Caster Class's mechanics. (For Instance, a Warlock would cast them as Invocations, using his Charisma score as his casting ability score.) This Feat can only be taken once.

Is this too much?

KenderKin wrote:
zero_traveler wrote:

The Class I'm using, a Homebrew Warlock:


The character sheet in question:

Thanks. I'm used to my usual board automatically converting Urls.

The Build right now is a Party-face Warlock that specializes in infuriating and demoralizing opponents. He started picking up languages so he could be relatively sure he could insult anyone and be understood.

One of my Feats, "Mortalbane" is not GM-friendly, and I've decided to change it instead of pushing the issue. The GM's already been really hands off and positive about character building, so I don't want to push on something they actively said they didn't like.

That being said, I'm having a hard time finding appropriate feats that aren't just more combat optimizers. Are there any suggestions on good Role-playing Feat abilities that might fit into this general concept?

The Class I'm using, a Homebrew Warlock:

The character sheet in question:

So, I made this homebrew up for a 3.5 campaign, because I wanted to try being a blasty CHA-style smartass, and I tried to keep it down to decent levels. The main thrust of it was basically melding Warlock and Dragonfire Adept to fix the worst crunch parts of Warlock while retaining most of the general concept.

It was originally 3.5 set, but I put it through the conversion process recently for a Pathfinder game that is hopefully starting soon.

Would appreciate concerns, questions, thoughts, tweaks, and friendly criticism.

Crystalline Warlock (Warlock Variant)

Hit Die: d8 (as Dragonfire Adept)

Skill points: 4 + Int (as Dragonfire Adept)

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Linguistics, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.
(As Dragonfire Adept, Perception skills combined into one)

Class Table.

Eldritch Blast: (As Warlock) At Will, make a Ranged touch attack. On a successful attack roll, deal your Eldritch Blast Damage, which begins at 1d6, and gains an additional die of damage every odd level. You may attach one (1) Eldritch Essence Invocation and one (1) Blast Shape Invocation. These modify your Eldritch Blast with additional qualities.

Invocation: (As Warlock) with Exceptions: The Warlock may choose any of the Extant "Spell-Like Abilities" that are classed as "Invocations". This includes Invocations from the Eldritch Theurge, the Dragonfire Adept, the Eldritch Disciple's "Gift of the Divine Patron", and any other class that grants warlock-style "Invocations" (These are all subject to GM Fiat/Veto)

Detect Magic (As Warlock) Detect Magic as the spell, as an At Will ability.

Arcane Crystallization: (Reskinned "Scales" ability from Dragonfire Adept) At 2nd level, and every four levels after, the Magical energies permeating the Warlock's body begin to crystallize on the surface of his skin, hardening into clear, colorful crystals that resemble stained glass. This grants a Natural Armor bonus of +1 at 2nd level, up to +5 at 18th level

Damage Reduction: (As Warlock) At 3rd Level, and every fourth level after, The Warlock gains Damage Reduction. This is a DR 1/Cold Iron at 3rd level , to DR 5/Cold Iron at 19th level

Deceive Item: (As Warlock) At 4th level, the Warlock's connection to Arcane energies allows him to use Magic Items with ease, even in stressful situations. The Warlock may always Take 10 on a Use Magic Device check.

Arcane Resistance: (Replaces Energy resistance) At 8th, 13th, and 18th level, The Warlock begins to shrug off pure arcane energies that target him. He gains Energy resistance 1/2/3 against any untyped or Force Damage from an Arcane source.

Imbue Item: (As Warlock) A warlock of 12th level or higher can use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make an item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat). He can substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells) in place of a required spell he doesn't know or can't cast. If the check succeeds, the warlock can create the item as if he had cast the required spell. If it fails, he cannot complete the item. He does not expend the XP or gp costs for making the item; his progress is simply arrested. He cannot retry this Use Magic Device check for that spell until he gains a new level.

Arcane Ascension: At 20th level, the Warlock's magical energies burst from his body, burning away the last vestiges of his physical form, and leaving his body with the crystalline skin that has been growing since Crystallization began. He no longer Ages, and gains the Outsider type. He may choose to resume the appearance of his former body, with the crystals gone, but he will have a permanent, crystalline, stained glass sheen to his skin. If slain, he appears on a relevant plane aligned to his own alignment, banished from the plane he was slain on, and can return in a burst of arcane energies after a Year and a Day. If he has friends or followers that are willing to perform a 24 hour ritual to revive him, he can return immediately once the Ritual is complete.

The Crystalline Warlock is a being that was born due to an upwelling of magical power. Perhaps he was born near the site of a great magework or ritual, or perhaps he was exposed to a large number of magical creatures as a child.

No matter what the specifics of their creation, the Crystalline Warlock is a creature whose entire being is suffused with magic. Through learning to command these wild, powerful flows of magic in their body, they discover a great control over magic, being able to command magical effects directly from the aether. The first and easiest method all learn is to gather arcane energies from their body and launch it as a blast of raw power, known as an Eldritch Blast. From this base, they learn to command effects directly, by invoking the very magic in the air around them. These "Invocations" stem from the limitless well of arcane energy the warlock represents, and can emulate a variety of effects.

There is no way to predict which person has the potential to become a Warlock, therefore they come from a wide variety of peoples and races. Theoretically, any of the more magically inclined races would be more likely to be born as the nexus of energies that a Warlock represents, but any race could give rise to these individuals. The "Holy Child" of a temple, the magical Savant of a rural village, or the 'God' of a mountain could all be normal mortals who discovered (or were discovered to have) their own arcane wellspring bubbling to the surface.

As they begin to unlock their power, regular use of their abilities causes their wellspring to strengthen, more and more of the arcane energies filling their bodies. As it becomes too much to hold, the energies begin to seep from their skin and crystallize, leaving them covered in small crystals that resemble stained glass. The more their abilities grow, the more their skin hardens and crystallizes. Eventually, the crystals have grown in such number as they become almost like armor, or a second skin, and the arcane energies trapped within the crystals grant their own benefits over time.

Visual examples:

Example 1: Kite (.Hack)
Note the energy around the hand, gathering for an Arcane blast. (Yes, I know it's his Twilight Bracelet. It's just a visual)

Example 2: Miriam (Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night) The original inspiration for the "Crystallization process"

I've recently been trying out a new Character concept for me.

A Blacksmith Fighter that specializes in Sundering, Perception, and Linguistics (for Runes)

His dream is to one day make a Legendary Weapon.

Getting onto my point, What I've thought of is to ask my GMs if, after spending an amount of time examining an opponent's weapon/armor, (anywhere from the quick and easy fighting them a certain amount of time to the hard and dirty, Burn a round doing nothing but studying the weapon/armor) He makes a Craft: Weapon/Armor roll, and if he does well he goes "Oh hey, I know exactly how to break that." and gets a skill appropriate bonus to his next Sunder roll.

What things do you use skills for that aren't necessarily in the book as such?

williamoak wrote:
zero_traveler wrote:

Have a "Party Level" that goes up the more adventures you spend together. So that it actually seems like the party is becoming a closer knit group.

Ilike your thinking. I think it fits well with the nothion that levels should only be gained at important plot points.

Haha, the point of the Party level being to Grant said teamwork feats to the whole party.

Claus here has been adventuring with Smythe for YEARS now, and just knows instinctively to pull his buddy out of the way of that incoming arrow.

Likewise, Smythe seems to know just when to duck so as not to be cut in two by Claus' Whirlwind attack.

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The Elusive Trout wrote:
I think every party should get teamwork feats so that they have an incentive to keep their fellows alive.

I personally think Teamwork feats should be on a system where they are given to the party as a whole, rather than making people burn Feat slots for something that they have no guarantee other characters in the party will have, thus making them useless.

Have a "Party Level" that goes up the more adventures you spend together. So that it actually seems like the party is becoming a closer knit group.

I love the soulknife for being a Non-caster Psionic. It is the only reason I have psionics books.

On the subject of Archetypes in general, I would say that some of them need a LOT of work.

My example for this is the Archer Archetype for Fighters.

I like archer fighters, so I thought the Archer Archetype was a pretty good choice for me, but when I built it it didn't seem right.

So I went into HeroLab and I built up two 20th lvl fighters, one going straight fighter, the other using the Archer Archetype.

First of all, you lose the Armor Training. You lose multiple weapon trainings (understandable at least, as you are supposed to be focusing on the bow...) you lose the Fear save buffs.

You get "Skill shots" which I can only remember one of them actually being worth it. And that just barely.

Second, there are abilities that you can get as a baseline fighter WAAAAAAY earlier than you get them from the Archetype. The "Safe Shot" Feat tree can be started as low as lvl 9-10 (not sure on this, but it's EARLY) but the Archetype doesn't give you an equivalent ability until you get to LVL 20.

Even comparing them side by side on just straight attack bonus, you get more out of a Straight fighter than using the archetype.

So far, out of all the classes, I've only found one archetype that was actually worth it, and that's the fighter's "Two-Handed Fighter" Archetype. It does great things for you if you want to swing around a "Great" weapon. and makes you very Smashy Smashy.

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Jiggy wrote:
Bobson wrote:
What difficulty would you assign to a reduce personed halfling (Tiny) picking up a Titan's hammer (colossal-sized 2H weapon) and smashing something with it?
DC 50 strength check to pick it up, and failure results in hurting yourself, to the tune of 1d4 STR and DEX damage plus another 1d4 for every 5 by which you fail. ;)

But imagine if he manages the roll!

"Hey, John. Tell me if I'm going crazy."

"What are you on about, now?"

"I just saw a halfling run by carrying a Titan's hammer, chasing an orc. Little blighter was laughing."

<both men think for a moment, then pour out their respective ale mugs.>

"I think I'ma lay off the ale for a while."

"Good idea."


On another note: I find it amazing how almost everyone is completely focused on finding ways to make this NOT work, and how few people are trying to help. D&D IS still for HAVING FUN, right?

Having Played a soulknife Elocater, I can tell you it's GREAT FUN.

Although, using a two handed mindblade, and the elocater's base powers, it took me a while to realize I had created Kagato from Tenchi Muyo.

It was VERY effective.

As someone mentioned above, the opponents he used it against, it was a fight ender.

So, maybe have the ultimate capper for the talent tree allow you to outright drop an enemy that you had been fighting.

well, deflecting it back towards them would of course be another feat, or maybe a crit only thing, (Beat the roll by 20+, etc)

What I meant by choosing the direction would be like, to either side or diagonal in the same general direction.


using the example above, your character is attacked from the right, deflects, succeeds on the roll, and gets to choose the deflect direction.

Now with just what I'm talking about, he could choose 3, 4, 6, or 7 as his direction, 8 and 2 are really more there for random deflection, and obviously 1 would be another feat, or a critical success.

What if instead of a Flat "Every Spell effect can be sundered" have something more along the lines of being able to bat obvious attack spells out of the air. You can't do anything about static or self effects, but effects that produce a projectile or other kind of obvious attack are fair game.

Like Frost Bolt, As the Bolt comes flying in, they get a deflect roll to knock it aside.

Now something with an area effect, theres not much you can do about that.

For an example, let's use Fireball. It takes line of effect, shoots a bead sized ball of fire to a target point, and then explodes. At the explodes part, there's not much you can do, but...

If you are in the line of effect to the fireballs target, you could try and knock it off course as it goes by. With a successful roll, you get to choose the direction it deflects in, but if you just barely make the roll, it deflects randomly. If you fail, the deflect Fails and it continues on past you, in other words you missed. On a 1, or otherwise Crit fail, you hit, but instead of deflecting, the fireball detonates instantly, using you as the new target point.

If the deflect works, you take the distance to the original target point from the deflecter, and have the Fireball detonate that distance past him, in the direction he chose to deflect it in. In the case of a random deflection, take a d8, have 1 be the direction it came from and go clockwise up to 8, then roll the d8. the attack flies in that direction.

Just putting it out there, if anyone remembers Onimusha.

How much adaptation do you think it would take to do Onimusha in Pathfinder?

Given the Oni, The Gauntlet, Onimushas themselves, Nobunaga, the different demon types (zombies at least? some actual Pathfinder demons in there...) And can't forget the magic swords...

They had an added on base class (might have been a PrC) that did this.


A caster that instead of using a spell book or divine power, had a pool of Truenames, An entire language that equated to the cosmic words of power that make up the universe, that they could draw from and combine to create different spell effects.

IF I remember correctly, they had to know the right words and phrasing for a given spell effect, and had to make a DC just to speak the language, since it's something even dragons in D&D have trouble speaking.

Perhaps a Monk that specializes in heavier monk weapons, Such as a ball and chain, or those large metal-shod clubs you see sometimes. I forget the names.

Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame had some killer puppeteers like that in that shadow city. Neat idea, maybe combine it with that blue magic/chakra alternative magic system with the essences and stuff.

Magic of Incarnum

What about a Swordsman who learns to pull inherent Magical abilities out of a given weapon.

Unlike a SpellSword, where it's the characters magic and the weapon is a channel, he can take any blade, even a few mundane ones and pull out a magical effect from it.

For instance, your common everyday longsword, he might be able to pull off a keen spell effect, but with something like a +2 Flaming burst Greatsword, he could pull out a spell effect that's similar in most ways to a Fireball spell.

I just like the idea of a weaponmaster-type Fighter, loaded down with weapons of all shapes and sizes.

The website URL is wrong, it's untoldTHEgame, not UntoldTEHgame

I only bring it up because I tried to go to the site with it and it was a webpage not found.

DragonBlood472 wrote:

If anybody comes across this thread soon, I have a few Tibbit questions of my own that I would like some assistance with.

How would a Tibbit spellcaster treat a cat familiar? Partner in crime? Romantic interest? Sidekick? Would it see the situation as a master/slave scenario and avoid it? A kinship or brotherhood? Doting parental figure watching the intelligence of a fellow feline slowly advancing with their own power? I'm just completely in the gray on how a tibbit would treat or act with having a feline familiar, if it would even come up. I would just like some feedback. Thanks >O.O<

You could base it on breed I suppose...

You would have to come up with golarion equivalents, maybe. but base them off real world cat breeds. Some cat breeds are known to be naturally more aggressive and vicious than others.

I'm not sure what to say, other than I like it.

Basing it on the target level, that's a new Idea to me.

Then again, maybe you handle this is the spells themselves and how you get them, but how do you differentiate between a Healer who is good at healing and one who is not?

I have played a Tibbit Soulknife/Soulbow before in 3.5 and it was one of my favorite characters.

The alternate form thing was really just a way for him to ride around on the wizard's shoulder and freak enemies out with how the wizard 'had' two Familiars and one of them could 'Magic Missile' at will. IE: A housecat, however fierce, does not a great combatant make. (references to housecats being able to kill level 1 commoners aside...) My Tibbit in serious encounters was either pelting them from range, (which the housecat form was great for BTW,) or He was going humanoid and stabbing things. In cat form, he was a Housecat. Granted, he was shoulder ornamentation for a mage, and could talk, but still was just a housecat.

As for bringing it in line with Pathfinder, I would say similar to humans and halfbreeds, you get the choice of where to put it, but only allow the +2 in DEX, WIS, INT, or CHA, to go in line with the Tibbits being a naturally smaller race with less power and endurance than the larger and sturdier races.