zarzak's page

I looked up 'thus she spoke' and will check it out. Looks interesting. :D Thanks!

For the feats:
One of my 'normal' feat slots is taken up by Quicken Spell. One of my 'sorcerer feat' slots (since you get three feats from your bloodline by level 20) is Combat Casting. With the Draconic Bloodline, I can instead take Quicken Spell in a sorcerer feat slot, freeing up the normal feat slot for another metamagic.

For Elemental Spell:
You're right - it was a typo. :) Just so I can use it to make chain lightning some other element if I run up against something immune to lightning. Haven't decided which yet, maybe cold or acid.

But ... your magic item suggestions fix everything perfectly! :D The spells I'd be losing are more utility type spells, and are perfect candidates for mnemonic vestments and pages of spell knowledge. That made my choice very easy - thank you so much :D

I'm building a 20th level sorcerer, and am wondering if cross-blooded might actually be worth it.

Before you say 'no way, cross-blooded sucks!' let me lay out the character.

Starting at 20th level, very low wealth (so not many magic items).
Human, with the favored class bonus, so extra spells known.
Arcane Bloodline.
Spell Perfection (Chain Lightning) + magical lineage, magical knack, and associated feats.

Currently I'm short on feat slots, so need metamagic rods of empower spell, admixture spell, and piercing spell. Admixture and Piercing are fine on a metamagic rod, but I'd very much like to have empower spell as a feat instead of on a rod.

Enter the Draconic Bloodline.
I would gain
* +1 damage/die on my chain lightning (I'd be casting at CL 23 if I use intensify spell, so thats +20-+23 damage per cast. In a typical round I'd cast a quickened one and an intensified one, so thats +43 damage per round right there).
* Quicken Spell as a sorcerer feat. I can replace the combat casting I get from the arcane bloodline with it, and free up a feat slot - so I can use empower spell.
* The arcane bloodline's 3rd level bloodline ability is subsumed at 20th level, so is useless for me. I can replace it with the draconic bloodline's 3rd level ability, getting +10 resist lightning and +4 natural armor for free.
I would loose:
* -2 will. Not cool, but not devestating
* 1 spell known at every level. HORRORS, right? But wait! I actually don't care about all the slots (breakdown below, if anyone cares). I only actually care about losing the 3 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9 level spells known.

So! Is is losing 6 spells known (3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9), and a -2 penalty on will, worth all of the bonuses (+4 natural armor, +10 resist lightning, extra metamagic feat, +43 damage in a typical round). I'm stumped. :(

Spells known loss breakdown:
- 0 level: I don't care about this
- 1 level: I don't care about getting Identify from the arcane bloodline, but I do want mage armor from the draconic bloodline (which I would take if I wasn't doing crossblooded). So I'd just use mage amor, not need to know it with a normal slot, and basically suffer no loss here.
- 2 level: I can lose a spell known here without feeling too bad
- 3 level: This hurts
- 4 level: This hurts
- 5 level: This hurts
- 6 level: This hurts
- 7 level: This hurts
- 8 level: Similar to 1st level spells: I don't want the arcane spell, I do want the draconic spell (and so would take it anyways). So basically no change.
- 9 level: This really hurts

The problem is that the current version is only really a big problem at low levels, so a greater version doesn't fix the issue. I honestly don't mind not being able to counter 9th level spells using this ability (and even still you can counter a 9th level spell with the ability if you have the same spell prepared). I mind not being able to counter the relevant spells in appropriate CR encounters when I'm below 15th level.

I agree. The previous counterspell exploit was fine - it cost a respectable number of resources to use, and made countesrpelling viable at lower levels. Currently there is almost zero reason to use the exploit, and counter-spelling remains terrible.

zarzak wrote:

I would also like to see nan option to get eschew materials

The option is already there. It's called taking the feat.

Its not about that - its about flavor.

First, Eschew Materials is rarely worth spending a feat slot on - its just not that useful. How many wizards do you see running around with that feat?

That said: Sorcerers get it for free automatically, wizards have to spend a feat to get it. I think it should be worked into an exploit to provide a mix of the two flavors to the arcanist (they can get it as a class feature, but its not guaranteed).

From a flavor perspective it makes sense, and mechanically its insignificant.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Are there any other exploit ideas that folks would like to see. We've got a few that we are planning to add, but I want to see what you have to say.

I still want to see my Blue Mage idea worked in, if only as an exploit and not a central feature of the class (DC 15 + twice spell level Fortitude save to learn a spell after you get hit with it).

!

I also want to see a blue Mage exploit worked in. Pleaseeeee make it happen!

I would also like to see nan option to get eschew materials

Hmm two things.

1) I still think it would be a good idea to add an exploit or ability that allows the arcanist to learn spells that are cast on him/her. Its completely in theme for what the arcanist does, and would add a new gameplay element.

2) Eschew Materials should be added as a bonus feat option somewhere (perhaps merged into one of the exploits). Sorcerers get it automatically, wizards need to use a feat to get it, so it makes sense that it becomes an optional class feature for an arcanist (at least from a flavor standpoint).

Vivianne Laflamme wrote:

Faeron wrote:

Ahh yes, the horror of having literally years of downtime for magic item creation and (assuming you managed the kingdom correctly for the first 2-3 years) being able to pull ~10,000gp/month salaries for the party. I just hate being loot starved like that. ;-)

To be fair, the first couple modules, before your kingdom's magic item economy kicks in, are pretty loot starved.

LazarX wrote:

Well I don't. The Arcanist does not need a buff, and this would be one. It would also take too much from the Sorcerer who's more inherently innately magical in nature than either of the book casting classes and this feat is part of that flavor for them.

I agree that it's stepping in on the sorcerer's fluff, but eschew materials is so weak and is so rarely helpful in practice that I don't think it's much of a buff to give it to the arcanist.

If it was so weak and worthless. why do you want it? On the other hand it....

1. Means you don't have to worry about a spell component pouch which factors into 2.

2. Makes all sorts of shape-chanaged or handless spellcasting possible.

I think it'd be good from a flavor perspective. Arcanists have a more innate understanding of magic than wizards - from a spell component perspective they should be more like sorcerers.

Otherwise its really pretty weak ...

Does anyone else think arcanists should get eschew materials as a bonus feat?

zarzak wrote:

I've been thinking, and I think a fun exploit or greater exploit would be a blue mage-esque ability (make some sort of roll to learn whatever spell was cast on you). I was originally thinking it would be good for the arcanist's spell learning mechanism, but I think that would be too big of a nerf. But for an exploit its very in flavor with what the arcanist does.

Oh, it'd be hilarious!

Arcanist: Please. Please cast meteor storm on me! I just got spells and I really want to learn how to throw them around. Also, fireball me and ice tomb me and throw everything you have at me! Just hit me with everything you've got buffs and all!
BlackMage: That can be arranged...

:P It would have some humor potential, there is that.

It would be pretty cool ... "ouch, that fireball hurt, but I now I understand it ... "

I've been thinking, and I think a fun exploit or greater exploit would be a blue mage-esque ability (make some sort of roll to learn whatever spell was cast on you). I was originally thinking it would be good for the arcanist's spell learning mechanism, but I think that would be too big of a nerf. But for an exploit its very in flavor with what the arcanist does.

I saw someone post earlier about changing the spellbook to a more blue mage ability for the arcanist ... I like that a lot. It would further differentiate it from the wizard/sorcerer, and provide a new (perhaps more interesting/balanced way) for adding spells beyond what you automatically get each level.

3. Overpowering skill class. I think the real issue I have with the Investigator is that it's too dominate when it comes to skills. As was observed, when you combine the synergy of being an INT dependent class, you're looking at at class that's getting a minimum of 8-12 sp per level. Then you're adding 1d6 benefit for free onto Linguistics, K, and Spellcraft? Really?

Skills are a big part of a lot of classes. But you're empowering one class to effectively blow them away. At higher level's, that dominance becomes even exaggerated as everyone else's benefits progress linearly.

Let's contrasts this with combat. Is there another class which can dominate combat so overwhelming compared to other classes? One character cannot fight every monster in a room. And many monsters contain immunities or are resistant to normal methods of attack e.g. Damage Resistance, Spell Resistance, can't be tripped or grappled, immunity ability damage, etc.

But skills are not resistant to certain type of checks. So while the greatsword wielding Barbarian may find himself helpless against a wraith and unable to attack the five other combatants at the same time, the Investigator can always attempt the skill for anything she's put a rank in and more to the point,...

Eh, I disagree with this. Skills are not *that* powerful. Oh yes, they're handy and useful, but they're not that great. Skills don't keep you alive, and while the investigator can be good at a lot of skills, they're going to equal, say, a wizard, in certain knowledge skills, or whatnot.

Mechanically speaking, a wizard (to keep with the example) can emulate a lot of the skills with spells, *or* just summon a creature with the appropriate skill to use the skill for him. Heck, Greater Heroism (6th level wizard spell/5th level bard spell) gives +4 to all skills plus a lot of other stuff.

I'm not going to get involved in discussing the power level of the class. I do enjoy the mechanics of the spellcasting, and I think the power level can easily be tweaked through spell slots/castable spells per day.

What I dislike (and others have said as well) is the complete lack of flavor, and the whole blood magic concept.

1) Blood Magic sounds very vampiric/bloatmage in flavor, when its really just a watered down sorcerer bloodline. The base flavor is off/terrible.
2) The all day fatigued penalty for using all of your blood magic uses is terrible. It basically means no one will use all of their uses of the ability (unless they are 100% sure its the last encounter of the day), and it might as well read that you have 1 less use than you currently do. Just get rid of that, or make it fatigued for a round or two or something.
3) The +1 CL/+1 DC is much more powerful than most sorcerer bloodlines you'd use ... except maybe some of the arcane bloodlines metamagic manipulation (ironically enough).

I'd totally revise the system - give them (as others have said) the bloodline without the skills/feats/spells - just the base bloodline ability. If you want to keep the +1 CL/+1 DC thing, just make it an entirely separate ability, and reflavor it.

Scribe Scroll bonus feat + wizard bonus feats -> very lackluster

The capstone is lackluster and has no flavor

As is its a cool casting mechanic, and I like it, but there's no reason not to prc out of the class asap.

It definitely needs martial weapon proficiency and a d10 hit die. Maybe full bab as well. Right now it doesn't really feel like a skald, and is sort of lackluster.

I am maybe odd in that I really only care about the Heavens spirit of the Shaman. I love the flavor built in (the thing with the eyes is very cool, and the familiar is great as well).

What I don't like are some of the abilities:

Enveloping Void - flavorful and uniquie, and it feels like a Hex.
Guiding Star - I hate this one. It will never be picked/used in many campaigns, but in the ones it is used in its much more powerful than other Hexes. I'd just switch it out with the 'awesome display' revelation rom the Oracle (which loses a lot of its power due to how MAD the shaman is). That would also feed more into the heaven's shaman being 'controllery'
Heaven's Leap - This is really cool and flavorful, and the power level is appropriate. But it doesn't feel like a Hex.
Lure of the Heavens - This should just outright grant flying at 10th level (or 12th, or 14th, or whatever). Leaving it at a 'x minutes/day' thing makes it very at higher levels
Starburn - A few of the spirits have an ability like this - it looks good to me. An alternative would be reflavoring it as 'Voidburn' or something and having it do cold damage
Stardust - this feels more like a hex than 'Heavens Leap'. Maybe switch the two, modifying power level as appropriate
Void Adaption - Good and flavorful
Phantasmagoric Display - I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, the spell is good and worth it, on the other hand ... doesn't seem very flavorful
Manifest - the saving throws should be based on WIS
Spirit Familiar - love the flavor/power level of this