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Sczarni

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nice thx for pointing these out.

one more thing: where does this rule appear in the ap?

Dryad Knotwood wrote:
...treat Pure-Blooded Azlanti as CR+1 higher than other NPCs...

Sczarni

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stickler for stats integrity here...

blood simulacrum of sorshen ability scores inconsistency that i cannot seem to validate:

- 25-pt buy base stats*: 7, 13, 13, 18, 10, 17
- 4th level: (+1 int) 7, 13, 13, 19, 10, 17
- 8th level: (+1 cha) 7, 13, 13, 19, 10, 18
- dance of seven veil: (+2 int, cha) 7, 13, 13, 21, 10, 20
- human enchanter is cr 9

question -- according to book's stat block, how is she getting?
- additional +2 to str
- additional +4 to dex and con
- additional +1* to cr to make her cr 11

what am i missing?

(did stats forget to include something like a belt of physical perfection +4, but that would make her str at 11?)

* from "exceptional stats" special ability

Sczarni

thx for interesting tactics scenario. some good points. maybe i underestimated the fly. but even with dr/15 and fh 10, party’s damage output can still get his go down pretty quick.

here are a few things that nerfs him:
- there is a chance of failure when he cast any spell. if he doesn’t succeed in getting a wall up, the ranged pc will take him down. and if he fails an offensive spell, he’s just wasting actions.
- if he fails at casting a spell, it’s written that he would spend next round not casting another spell.
- he can only get a free grab if he hits with slam attack — his slam attack is +5... that’s nothing. he would have 10%-15% to hit any pc with a +5 melee.

as i see it, he might get a couple of offensive spell in, but most of the time would fly around or ineffectively make melee attacks. once he’s on the ground, he would be susceptible to getting grounded (there is a solid grapple-build pc as well as spells to do this) and be at the mercy of the melee pcs gang-up.

i don’t want to run an encounter where he’s in the air all the time, evading attacks until he runs out of spells (his motivation is wrath, insane, and raging to kill party, expends action to fly in and engage in melee whenever spell fails). i also don’t like to run npcs that do things outside of they’re prescribed morale write-up, doing other tactics that i think would be good, but not necessarily tactics npc should take.

Sczarni

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so i used hero lab (3rd party character creation app) to build out zerrund, just to double-check because it seemed wonky.

a few questions:

- spells: each spell level (1-4), there is an extra spell-per-day stat'd out for him, which would seem consistent per level, but i can't see how. he has 6/5/5/4 (plus an additional specialized spell per level) stat'd out, but in hero lab, it shows he should only have 5/4/4/3 (plus an additional specialized spell per level).

- enlarge spell metamagic feat: he has 3 enlarged magic missile and 1 enlarged charm person -- this makes no sense what enlarge spell does; it's not as if he would cast these at targets with 100% range increase (esp. magic missile) for these spells... the party is going to be right there in the room?

- why does he have an enchantment spell when he is an evoker and his theme is wrath?

- why waste a feat, stat'd him with intensified spell when none of the spells have intensified?

- now the kicker: "without his arcane bond, zerrund must succeed at a concentration check (DC = 20 + the spell’s level) when he casts a spell to avoid losing the spell as he casts it" -- **then** "if he fails to cast a spell in this way, his rage compels him to make a slam attack [slam +5 (1d4+1 plus grab)?!!!] against a foe on the next round rather than cast a spell." -- wtf lol

it seems the writer attempted to nerf him because he "suffers from an overwhelming sense of wrath that hampers his judgment" -- ok, i'll give you that, but this is just a poor, poor, useless build for the sake of depowering the guy.

i know with the current party, he won't stand a chance to to anything at all before getting utterly obliterated -- at best -- after 2 rounds.

Sczarni

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i am gm for this game and those were the circumstances:

the brawler (ironically) acrobatics into the room quite easily, then with unwavering confidence, flurried with a ghost-touched weapon, beating up each shade for 2 rounds. the shades then realized she was a huge threat, so both creatures spent the following round focusing full-round attacks (2d6 neg energy x2 each) -- 4 consecutive successful touch attacks.

i just couldn't see how it was going to be as a cake walk out of that room (as @quixote described the pc's condition quite well).

good feedback, all. thx

my other thought (counter-argument to myself) was the pcs are meant to be heroic, and each build has something special about it. it's these special focused and trained abilities that would allow the pc to shine in certain circumstances -- be it making a knockout blow, or disabling that crazy-high dc trap, or making that near-impossible concentration check, or escaping certain death through the skin of their teeth with a slim chance of acrobatics maneuver.

as much as i agree with a lot of the "beaten up" condition of the pc, i also think pcs can be extra-ordinary and carry out super-natural abilities.

it's just a matter of ruling something fair as well as "realistic."

Sczarni

thx @lordkailas -- "...allow the character to take a 1 on their acrobatics check, to represent them putting minimal effort into it. If this is high enough to avoid an AoO then they are able to do so."

that's a good option.

Sczarni

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scenario --

room and occupants:
wwww
wfad
wfxw
wwww

w - wall
f - foe (variant shade with high touch attack x 2)
a - ally
d - ally + door (to east)

x is pc with disabled condition (0 hp) who could take a single move action or "non-strenuous" standard action without losing 1 hp at end of turn.

action / ruling:
gm ruled a move action using acrobatics to leave room (i.e. attempting to successfully tumble out of room and not provoke from foes) and considered such move action to be on par with a "strenuous" standard action, as it would be a movement with lots of efforts and coordination; this is why (in this normal case) acrobatics movement reduces speed to half.

due to this "strenuous" movement, the pc hp would be reduced to -1 hp once movement ended one square east of door.

counter-argument: such movement would not drop pc to -1 hp because the pc's build is such that acrobatics skill is very high, ensuring a successful tumbling, even with an addition +2 cmd increase for 2 foes. it could be argued that it is possible to make such movement (per raw) because the pc spent much resources to gain high acrobatics skills for exactly such scenario.

thoughts?

Sczarni

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reviving an old message here X-D

couldn't find quickly rules for how easy / hard to contact with poison when handling a weapon that has poison applied.

interested in:
- chance of contact (i.e. % roll?)
- save (same as poison, would be best guess)

i was told only a measly 5% of contact it (e.g. a pc inadvertently picks up an assassin's blade and it makes contact on herself or an ally).

i was thinking pc would easily contact poison if not aware -- as pc grabs that cool weapon after dispatching foe.

but it ended up having only 5% of contact, and fort dc 12 (sad rofl) -- poison use sucks on a average adventure then / element of surprise.

is there actual rules written somewhere, or is so not worth it that they didn't write anything for it?

thx

Sczarni

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so for flavor and adventure path continuity, i created an npc to help party by doling out necessary info tidbits if the right questions were posed.

the ap is return of the runelord, so naturally i chose the runesage archetype. but at the same time, i had this background idea that this ratfolk wizard felt marginalized by his peers because he didn't do magic the "proper way"... he exploited it and took shortcuts: archetype exploiter wizard (and so he left the academy, drawn by the spike of rune magic / creatures slowly oozing from the town that the pcs are currently based).

i use hero lab. according to people there who interpreted these classes (and i trust they know the rules well), the combo of these classes kinda broke things, more so for the runesage.

for those who've never used hero lab, essentially, all the rules for the runesage went out the window; mechanically in the app, all the options for this archetype was overrode and disabled. i think this happened because a line from the exploiter wizard's class rule basically disqualified everything for the runesage:

[first sentence of this flavor text]

Contrary to traditional wizardly study, an exploiter wizard forgoes the tried and true methods of arcane focus and arcane schools for the exploits favored by an arcanist. Some wizards regard this blatant exploitation of arcane magic as somehow “cheating,” but most exploiters believe this prejudice is close-minded and overly traditional.

"...forgoes the tried and true methods of arcane focus and arcane schools..."

this snippet here, i think, shut down all the prereqs and options for the runesage.

can anybody from paizo creative team comment on this? is one of the archetype not supposed to be available when you choose the other? or if you can choose both, what happens to the rules -- does the exploiter wizard rules override the runesage, nullifying that archetype to the point of moot?

Sczarni

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so this seems to be the most recent post about this rule, so i'm gonna continue with another question:

flurry of blows and natural weapons...

according to rule, natural weapon attacks are not allowed as additional attacks when making flurry of blows:

[last sentence of rule] A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

there is this creature: reborn brother (ghoulish human ex-brother of the seal 1/ex-monk 5 (pathfinder rpg horror adventures 248, pathfinder campaign setting: paths of prestige 14)

in the stats for melee attack:
melee bite +6 (1d6+3 plus paralysis and disease) or flurry of blows +8/+8/+3 (1d8+3), bite +1 (1d6+1 plus paralysis and disease), 2 claws +1 (1d4+1 plus paralysis)

after "or" all the attacks are separated by commas, and per paizo pf convention, comma means "and" when used this way. so, this creature would be able to flurry of blows and bite and claws in a full round action attack.

so, is this a special attack this creature has, or did writer overlooked the flurry of blows rule?

Sczarni

thx!

Sczarni

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i'm unsure how to interpret this ability's rule:

Once per day, you can spend 10 minutes to magically heal an ally up to 5 Hit Points per mystic level.

is it:

a) healing 1 hp per mystic level, and max at mystic level 5 for 5hp? (so mystic 1 heals 1 hp, mystic 2 for 2 hp, etc, maxing at mystic 5 for 5hp?)

or

b) healing 5hp per mystic level with no max mystic level? (so mystic 1 heals 5hp, mystic 2 heals 10hp, etc, to max mystic level 20 for 100hp?)

"up to 5 hit points per mystic level" -- which "up to" sounds like another variable besides the level? the wording of it all confuses me.

Sczarni

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good feedback and ideas!

i’m making a concept multi-class build, projecting it to 10 levels: envoy5 / mystic5.

these 2 classes have a mix of abilities / features that i think play up well with my concept: *very* loosely based on rocket raccoon from marvel’s guardians of the galaxy — have a knack for using computers and creating mechanical devices from piecemealing junk and parts. the added ability is healing but not being a full-time medic. so a chaotic neutral / good gregarious, fast-talking ysoki who bluffs her way out of situations or to get what she wants.

let me know what you think of these highlights — base stats, not accounting for any magic/enhacement/etc items:

- healing: high; social: high; knowledge: high; control: moderate; offense: low; defense: low
- ability scores: 10, 14, 15, 16, 18, 16
- main traits: expertise (1d6+1 to bluff +19, medicine +18, sense motives +17), certainty +2 (1/day)
- medicine abilities: quick quaff, surgeon, medical expert
- healing: channel 4d8 hp per rp (11 rp); healing touch 5 hp (1/day); medical expert 13 hp (assuming 10th level ally); life link 5 hp; inspiring boost 13 sp; mystic cure spell 1d8+wis hp; lesser remove condition spell
- debuff: clever feint (enemy flat-footed to party); force blast spell (enemy knocked prone on failed save)
- buff: supercharge weapon (feat: techno antic dabbler), life bubble spell, spider climb spell
- most knowledges (to identify enemy creatures) +13, certainty +2 (1/day)
- 13 languages
- tech skills: computer and engineering +18

the build *feels* solid on paper, but i haven’t played enough sf to know how it would play out, whether it might be too weak or too diluted/diversified at level 10. i don’t care to build min/max pcs, but maybe there are other mixes of abilities and such that could work even better together which strengthen the concept.

Sczarni

@doctorzorkfield you’re right that the medpatch +10 bonus is nullified when used in conjunction with medical expert feat, which i understood, and was another reason why i think it’s weak and not worth it. the only “benefit” is being able to performing the skill “faster.” perhaps it could be worthwhile if that synergy brought the dc to 20, or allowed the medpatch to keep the +10, or some other benefit [shrug].

as you mentioned, and i’d agree with assessment: it sucks and is useless at lower level. with lower medicine skill bonus, hitting that dc 25 is not easy. i haven’t played enough to know exactly how it would be more useful/worthwhile at higher level. right now, i’m giving the feat a big fat thumb’s down (lol)

Sczarni

@zaric you def have a point. no, it’s not the best way to do it, but i’m trying to weigh the benefits and want to feel convinced it’s worth it.

(not sure why you x2 cost of serums tho: 20 serums = 1000 cr?)

the way i see it though, a medpatch is also a one-time use, like the serum, to provide heal, but require *additional* resources (feat, skills, melkit, etc) to make it effective.

per use, it costs as much as a serum, but serum doesn’t require any other resources besides simply 50 cr. so yea, i’d rather spend credit on other stuff, but the way medpatch is ruled (cost per use) and how it isn’t effective on its own to treat deadly wounds like a serum is kinda weak. even with a medpatch plus medical expert feat, dc is still 25.

besides my still thinking it’s not worth it, i am also imagining a scenario: ally gets wounded during heated combat. healer (my build), healing abillities/powers spent, runs up, using full action (actually can’t run up to ally because it’s a full action, so healer has to already be adjacent), and pulls out medkit *and* medpatch (not even sure if there’s any actions left allowed to pull out all that stuf at this point). attempts a heal a wound (on ally who’s currently, say, in a sword fight!) with 50% chance of success on dc 25 for 5 hp. all in one round (lol). just all seems so silly and hard to feel immersive in role playing.

whereas another more “realistic” scenario: healer runs up next to ally and injects healing serum with a standard action.

either way, expending 50 cr. there is no getting around not expending the medpatch at 50 cr.

Sczarni

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@breithauptclan the +10 not allowed is from feat restriction, not gm’s ruling, and i already know the math for the cost and healing hp variables... not sure if you understood and answered my question.

you think the resources needed (medical expert feat, medicine skill boost, 150+ credits in equipment, and 5 levels of mystic — build in option 1) to maxing a healing of 9 hp is *balanced* with spending no resources except 50-100 cr for possible 2-16 hp (in option 2)?

if in combat and out of heal spells, i am just not seeing how it wouldn’t be better just to load up on a bunch of serums to treat deadly wounds, rather than building/allocating (at this point, useless) feat and (wasting) skill points to achieve such minimal gains. furthermore, the restrictions and high dc to fanagle for treating deadly wounds in option 1 has about 50% to work to gain 5hp, if lucky 9hp at 25%, whereas serum is 100% sure thing despite the variable amount of heal.

Sczarni

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glad i found this thread! (great deduction @shantidas!)

so, i’m building a healer-as-secondary ability and wanted to see how it would look at 5th level, and with all the things mentioned above set up (feat, skill, equipment, etc.). the pc has +4 int bonus and +14 medicine bonus.

here’s the thing: with this build and best case scenario (i.e. result medicine roll exceeded 5 of dc 25 — which would be around, like what, 25% chance?), i can heal a fellow 5th companion a max of 9 hp (1 hp x 5 levels + my pc’s int mod), according to treat deadly wounds rule.

if the above is correct, would someone please convince me why i would want to spend 50 cr on a medpatch (one time use, that won’t allow +10 to med check) + 100 cr on a med kit (dc 25, which is no joke), plus picking up a medical expert feat, and plus boosting my medicine skill, to make sure i have a better chance of hitting dc 30, to heal max 9 hp...

as opposed to...

50 cr on a serum of healing mk1 for 1d8 healing? or maybe 2 for 2d8 for 100 cr?

outside of the feat benefit of taking only a full action yaddy yaddy ruling (doesn’t administering a serum take a standard anyway?), how would the first option outweigh the second so drastically and be deemed better?

i’m a bit new to starfinder so forgive me if i got something wrong, but what am i *missing*?!

Sczarni

doomman47 wrote:
It's a familiar, familiars follow the standard familiar rules of half their masters hp as their hp. This is why I never and I mean never actually make my familiar leave my mind its safe up there were it could be killed while manifested out side it. Don't believe me take a look at the figment familiar its basically what the elemental whispers except always manifested.

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first paragraph for the figment (familiar archetype) rules:

Restriction: Elemental whisper familiars, shaman spirit animals, witch familiars, and familiars that grant spells can’t take the figment archetype, because they are attached to patrons or spirits.

(https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-arc hetypes/figment-familiar-archetype/)

Sczarni

doomman47 wrote:
Just because it goes back to your mind doesn't mean it didn't take the damage and when it takes enough damage to kill it, it still dies so if it takes enough damage to kill it out right you have a dead familiar since even in your mind it still has hit points and when it runs out of those hit points bye bye familiar also it doesn't auto regen its hit points to full each time you summon it so each time you use it to soak a trap it still keeps the damage and either needs to wait to be healed or until it can heal all the damage naturally.

haha that run-on sentence gave me brain tumor ;-)

actually, here, do a quick reading of it:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/utilit y-wild-talents/ (do a page search "elemental whisper")

from your text -- emphasizing hit points -- i don't think you get what it is.

it has no hit points. there is not a mention of hit points. it's the kineticist's imagination, "a fragment of your element," a thought (that magically/supernaturally/whatever manifests physically for any period of time). the description refers to rules for a familiar to use as guideline to create the "familiar," but it is *not* a physical being. when it's manifested, it has stats, but practically for other mechanics except hit points.

it's basically a thought bubble, and those don't have hit points.

it winks out whether it takes one damage or 1 million. it doesn't matter. there is not hit point rules, i.e. "a dead familiar (because it's not)," "kill it", or "takes enough damage," or "healed," or "keeps the damage," or "regen," or "wait to be healed," or "heal all the damage naturally (it's not even natural in a biological form)" -- none of it applies.

it either exists or it does not. nothing in between in terms of measurable/trackable hit points. it does not have hit points in or out of your mind because -- yes -- it's just a thought.

okay, now that i've beaten that dead horse, i think you are still missing the point.

Sczarni

Hoshi Akane wrote:
Am I correct to interpret this as you want suggestions on how to house rule this ability to fix it? If not I don't quite understand the point of this anymore.

well, yea, i would.

so far, the feedback has been people don't think it's a problem so i haven't gotten any suggestions -- ones that would alter the rule for this ability but not make it any more or less, if that makes sense.

i've been thinking about it all day:

since this is a mental ability that manifests physically (the "familiar" attacks, it sets off traps, etc), it would then tax the kineticist in a psychosomatic way if it's overused, especially if it takes damage. so, mechanically, there would have to be a point system to use per day, not unlike grit or arcane pool, or somehow tied to constitution.

simple version: points available for use calculated same manner as other classes that use points per day

moderately complicated: if familiar takes damage, it would blink out as currently ruled (among default rules). however, when it can be "re-imagined" depends on the amount of damage that was inflicted.

if damage amount inflicted was:

- less than or equal kineticist's level (minimum of 1) -- anytime if in encounter as swift action
- an amount of 1/4 or more of kineticist's total health -- 30 minutes
- an amount of 1/2 or more of kineticist's total health -- 2 hours
- an amount equal or beyond kineticist's total health -- after 8 hours rest

this would translate to roughly at-will, 5-7 times per day, 3 times per day, and once per day.

this would discourage kineticist to send familiar anywhere haphazardly, and treat and protect it like the precious and fragile thing that a familiar is. it's shouldn't generally be used like a more robust animal companion.

so, e.g. if 2nd level kineticist with 19 hp, 1 point of inflicted damage on familiar is manageable, can immediately re-imagine into existence; 10 points of damage would take 2 hours minimum to re-imagined; and massive high-damage from falling rock (3d6) trap would psychosomatically shock the kineticist, needs rest to re-imagine.

keep in mind this is rough sketch of solutions, especially the moderate version.

Sczarni

Hoshi Akane wrote:
...the scenario you are bringing up sounds uninteresting for the players and that being able to bypass that is a good thing.

i will assume when you say "scenario," you are referring to my explosive runes example. if that was what you meant, then yes, at higher level, that hallway wouldn't be very interesting nor inventive as a challenge. the intention was more to simply illustrate how a higher cr trap getting nerfed by a (very) low-level ability.

ok, so let's take an actual game situation (one of adventure paths -- not mentioning which, and i'm gonna try not give too much specific descriptions risking becoming spoilers): party is currently at level 2, and this accidental exploit has already spared them potential high damage to hp; they were left unscathed -- didn't even enter the proximity of trap because the "familiar" accidentally entered the area. massive damage meant nothing to it; it blinks out. pc "re-summoned" immediately by just thinking about it -- not even an action.

party will eventually get to very high levels, and part of the many interesting challenges is to overcome a fair amount of symbol of [different effects] spells. i can already see these high cr challenges become irrelevant (or rendered exponentially less effective than they should be) as this "familiar" is exploited.

to address your point: yes, there will be situations where it's just going to the grinds of game mechanics, which possibly isn't fun for *everyone* at the table, but should the gm (even if the encounter might be fun him) just waive it because *somebody* might find it uninteresting? some encounters are dry, and as lower level pcs, you just gotta do the grind. if i wanted to have the excitement of high level gameplay, i could have done that: start the pcs off at mid-level, bypassing the first 3 books.

Hoshi Akane wrote:
As a side note I do not think it is overpowered.

i never used the word "overpowered" (which it really isn't). i think it's broken and needs a little more restrictions for the level that it is. it might have been designed to give the kineticist an opportunity to gain something like a familiar, but i don't think it was foreseen as an exploit. (not sure if this ability is allowed in pfs, but i can definitely imagine rampant exploitation).

Hoshi Akane wrote:
Instead of finding a way to try and 'Balance' it try to drop hints that using that too much may be a bad idea.

i'm not sure "may be a bad idea" warning helps here -- what happens if the player continues to use it because the rules allow him to? the game is rules-based with mechanics to (ideally) level the playing field. simply dropping hints like that is not any different from just heavy-handed saying "because i'm the gm" -- there's no guidelines or consistency in this approach to run a balanced encounter.

Hoshi Akane wrote:
Maybe make it so that... Perhaps the trap effects a large area... Or triggers...

sure, there can be countless imaginative ways to approach this. i'm not running a house-ruled game. i also think house rules often break more than they attempt to fix. i may bring my interpretation and imagination to run the campaign, which is fine for non-encounter, exploratory parts of the game. but ultimately, it's the encounters that count and dictate well-deserved advancement in levels, loot, and wealth for the pcs after a fair fight.

i'm not interested in creating and making many changes to current rules (simply no time to gm and fidget that level of details for me). i am identifying very specific problems and hope to find a fix that doesn't change the fundamental parts of the ability/power/whatever.

Sczarni

The Sideromancer wrote:
If the situation where the familiar is overpowering isn't one anybody wants to spend time resolving, it's arguably worse for the game to remove an option that bypasses it. Personally, make X check or take Y damage is about as uninteresting as it gets, so for me the situation is broken and should be removed, rather than the character ability.

what? that’s saying “we made this class that has ability x that’s (unintentionally) broken; so let’s go back and rewrite all the adventures and remove or rework parts where this ability makes the situation irrelevant.”

Sczarni

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@sideromancer: not sure what you mean ... but let’s say they need to get through hallway to get to next step (which is a moot point; why the hallway is there is not important — substitute it for any similar obstacle/hazard that the party needs to overcome)

@doomman47: don’t mean to sound snippity at your question, but maybe you need to know what the elemental whisper is; when you do, your question will answer itself. (short answer: it’s a low-level ability and winks outs when it takes *any* damage. and that’s exactly what i’m trying to say: it’s a low-level resource — actually not even: costing but a thought — to break a high-level trap).

Sczarni

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here’s a situation where i think it would be broken:

party comes to a hallway, maybe/maybe not detects the whole stretch is full of explosive runes. sends elemental whisper down the hall. it sets off a rune. okay party thinks maybe there are more runes/traps. it’s summoned again and repeats, at-will.

broken.

say party has no rogue (or disable device skill) and has a caster to detect/dispel magic; this takes up resources and has chances of not successfully dispelled. party needs to come up with other solutions. this is more acceptable and balanced for me, where as the elemental whisper exploit is just, well, game-breaking.

Sczarni

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@pad300 -- i think we're talking about the same thing but in different ways.

yes, elemental whisper is very limited, but do you see the loophole with the trap thing tho?

i guess maybe it might be just me seeing it as problematically unbalanced, how traps are too easily and freely bypassed to be allowed at low levels.

like i said, i will have to think about how to close that loophole.

i appreciate the feedback.

Sczarni

pad300 wrote:

No, this is not unbalanced, and there are similar abilities. For example, the Occultist's soulbound puppet - which is more versatile as it allows a full familiar with the associated game playing with familiar archetypes (see for example, protector familiars...).

Further, if this disrupts your game, you might want to start thinking ahead to what happens when/if your kineticist gets Spark of Life.

just read spark of life -- it seems like that requires the use of resources, which i don't have an issue, as long as it does like everything else: spells, abilities, etc. this matters during encounters or situations where the expense of resources matters. it's part of the gaming balance to see how a player makes do with what (s)he has. the familiar thing is practically free.

(i have not completely immersed in playing the class, so i can't comment on that ability at this point. thx for pointing it out tho.)

[addendum]
even the soulbound puppet requires resource expenditure and clearer restrictions.

[more addendum]
the protector familiar is *actually* a familiar and would follow rules for bringing it back after it expires. (pardon me if i'm making an incorrect assumption here: but have you read the description for the kineticist's elemental whisper "familiar?")

Sczarni

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ah, i would agree with you if it were a telekineticist.

this is a phytokineticist -- can shoot stuff, but that expends resources, where as a telekineticist, as you pointed out, would be great at manipulating objects for free and with practically no expense of resources (i.e. limited power uses per day, magic item expending rounds, etc., etc)

my point here is not how it's done. however, there still needs to be:
- perception checks to discover the trap
- (for higher level traps) skill to successfully disarm so as to overcome reset
- ability to disarm magical traps (at higher level to overcome duration of spell, etc)

to name a few obstacles that require the party using resources and/or skills.

whereas the "familiar," there is nothing (or practically negligible) expended: no need to even detect the trap -- just send the thing 30-60 feet ahead, it sets off traps, summon another, rinse and repeat for unlimited amount of times, with no "summoning" duration limitation.

you don't thinks that's broken?

i think what i might want to house rule is find a similar spell and restrict it to uses per day. i just think it's "too good" for especially lower level party to have.

Sczarni

The Sideromancer wrote:
In terms of defeating weight-based traps, you could always use a cantrip for 7.5 kg/level of water. So I'm not sure a disposable familiar is much worse on that front.

i don't think this is a sensible response and doesn't address the issue presented.

in response to your comparison:

- a thing of water is not sentient/intelligent. the "familiar" is with a 7 int; it can be instructed to move around and explore on its own, sending back information

- the water has to be manipulated by someone, i.e. the person has to come into the trap's proximity and possibly setting off an area trap

- it was mentioned that this encounter (where the trap is) was underwater, so your water idea makes not sense

the problem at hand, and you mentioned it exactly, is the disposable "familiar."

Sczarni

my bad for overlooking the wrong forum...

ok thx for pointing out the concentration part, but you still don’t think it’s broken about the trap off-setting part?

that’s like having a rogue disable device ability, here failing at the check but essentially succeeding, with zero repercussions — imagine, say a more lethal pit trap (the trap that was set off was no joke either — falling rocks at +10 for 3d6 at level 2) or at higher level with explosive runes or symbol of whatever spells (i’m obviously ignoring the reset aspect)— but the party not having nor rely on any trap skills, got forewarned, and prob bypassing unscathed?

there’s no cost except for a thought to freely “conjure” it literally any time (not like the limit of spells per day use), repeatedly and limitless during the day.

and precisely as you said: but even if it were a real goat, there’s limitations there — bringing a bunch of goats everywhere, especially underwater, is not doable, or even summoning goats at-will isn’t possible at level 2. the point is, it shouldn’t be that free and simple. which is why i think it’s broken.

Sczarni

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does this familiar-like thing follow familiar death rules for bringing it back?

i keep rereading the rules and everything basically says it smells like a familiar, looks like a familiar, and walks like one (except for a few things), but it’s not a familiar.

but nowhere, that i can interpret, there is raw that if it dies, it would take time to be brought back — like a week and gp for a familiar.

here is the potential problem:
- kineticist can just think it into existence
- if it takes any damage, it blinks out of existence
- when this happen, can kineticist just immediately think it back into existence?

if all the above is true, it’s broken.

one of my players sent it chasing after an enemy into an area. it inadvertently set off a trap. it took damage and blinked out of existence. party is safe and sound. trap is disabled. player immediately “summons” it again. players are ecstatic to have learned this loophole.

am i missing something, or is this a freebie trap off-setter?

Sczarni 2/5

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reading and prepping a season 7 scenario. found some contents mistakes...

is there a link to submitting these errors to paizo?

Sczarni

Kyle Olson wrote:
wyld wrote:
Technotrooper wrote:
As great as its functionality is, this app is basically useless on the iPad until the crash bug is fixed.

any progress update, kyle?

i have a "unable to load file" error -- but it didn't crash this time!

This error occurs when the app fails to open files, either party files or files imported from HeroLab or PCGen. Can you send the files you were trying to load to [email]

sent. thx!

Sczarni

Technotrooper wrote:
As great as its functionality is, this app is basically useless on the iPad until the crash bug is fixed.

any progress update, kyle?

i have a "unable to load file" error -- but it didn't crash this time!

Sczarni

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i need lots of things, but i don't think that's your question.

would you clarify?

Sczarni

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game schedule: bi-weekly nights, every other wednesdays, 19h30 est (gmt-5) - 23h30
next session: 25 feb 2015

current line up:


  • keleshite elf ranger
  • half-elf oracle (spirit guide)
  • kellid half-elf slayer
  • numerian shabti brawler
  • npc android cleric

nitty-gritty stuff:


  • iron gods player's guide is available free on paizo for download; check it out.
  • begins at level 4
  • 20-pt buy
  • level 4 wealth + 3k gp
  • all pathfinder or d20pfsrd material allowed (exceptions mentioned in iron god's players guide)
  • mythic campaign excluded
  • 3rd party material excluded
  • rare races will be reviewed; allowed based on back story and motivation
  • 2 traits (alternate race traits and other traits allowed)
  • androffan allowed
  • evil may be allowed, depending on back story and motivation
  • ethnicity mandatory
  • power-gaming / min-max build not banned but discouraged

shoot me questions if any to wyldat pk1475d otor g

thanks for your interest.

Sczarni 2/5

oh, darn. take that back...

can edit past reports.

still cannot register new reports.

Sczarni 2/5

well, i'll be a monkey's uncle:

just went in to check, and it seems to be fixed! i can do what i need to do.

thanks, paizo.

Sczarni 2/5

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this seems like an appropriate thread for my concern:

i am volunteering to gm for a bunch of teens at local library. they have been assigned pfs numbers; however, some have not gone online and registered at paizo.com.

due to their being early teens, some are restricted to certain online activities (be it being grounded from using internet; not tech savvy enough to go online to register; simply being a teen and things like this doesn't seem important; and among other reasons -- all legitimate and realistic restrictions) that prevents their pfs number being activated.

up until pathfinder core was introduced (and the reporting system was reprogrammed to accommodate it), i was able to report a roster of pcs, whether their pfs numbers were activated or not. now, i can no long do this: the system requires pcs pfs numbers to be "live" to save out and register the reporting. also, i cannot make any edits to previous reporting sessions for the same reason; they are pretty much locked down.

is there a fix or workaround to this in the works? if not, what recommendations/solutions does paizo have for a gm in my situation? i would like to have access to my gm credits as soon as i've done a session.

thanks.

Sczarni

Snapshot wrote:
wyld wrote:
i am trying a direct import of a .por (hero lab) file and it crashes c.m.
There is a problem with the code (Try giving the monster a gender) see if that temporarily fixes it. The Regex does not like the structure slag giant (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 4 129)

exactly the issue. thanks!

Sczarni

Snapshot wrote:
wyld wrote:

hi, kyle.

i have not used combat manager for several versions now. just downloaded and updated to 1.5.9.

i am trying a direct import of a .por (hero lab) file and it crashes c.m.

is there currently issues between the 2 apps that i have missed from not using c.m. for a while? i tried different .por and same result: crash.

here is a sample .por if you want to give it a try.

thanks.

There is a problem with the code (Try giving the monster a gender) see if that temporarily fixes it. The Regex does not like the structure slag giant (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 4 129)

It tries to find a line beginning with Male or Female, if that does not work it grabs a specified line "now incorrect due to format changes" to parse the race and class of the Character [this is where the crash happens]. Combat Manager does not expect a space in the race name, this caused a bad parse. The (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 4 129) is parsed as the class but causes no problem.

thanks, snapshot. will give it a try...

Sczarni

hi, kyle.

i have not used combat manager for several versions now. just downloaded and updated to 1.5.9.

i am trying a direct import of a .por (hero lab) file and it crashes c.m.

is there currently issues between the 2 apps that i have missed from not using c.m. for a while? i tried different .por and same result: crash.

here is a sample .por if you want to give it a try.

thanks.

Sczarni 2/5

John Compton wrote:
The Numerian fluids are inappropriate for organized play because of their variable nature.

i guessed as much.

Sczarni 2/5

Fromper wrote:
Most items aren't listed individually. There are a lot of books that list things like "All items on pages XX to YY, except ..."

yes, i aware of that. thanks. nothing on numeria - land of fallen stars --- yet?

Sczarni 2/5

i found nothing on numerian fluid...

paizo?

Sczarni 2/5

the side effects seems complicated and involved, e.g. possibility of insanity, or immortality, among the random effects. according to hero lab, buying this item does set off the red flag -- "not allowed in pfs organized play."

i wanna build a pc based in the numerian fluid scavenger (numeria - land of fallen stars).

kosher?

Sczarni

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current line up:

Medic/Support 2
Cleric 3
Wizard 2
Paladin 2
Rogue 2 (NPC)

********************
if you are interested, this would be on fantasy grounds* vtt

check out these useful links if you're new to fg and/or have a mac:

********************

this is pfs sanctioned. weekly games to progress pcs from 2 - 7 level (accursed halls completed.) pcs engage in 4 separate mini-modules within the thornkeep module. since thornkeep has a "hole" in level advancement, a separate (but integrative) module, carrion hill, will be added to make the role playing experience seamless. all sessions around 4-hours each.

more info and sign-up
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* important: since i (the gm) do not have an ultimate license to fantasy ground -- which would allows me to host unlimited players -- each player would be required to have at least the lite license in order to login and join the game. fantasy ground is an beautiful, intuitive, feature-rich and, in general, an awesome vtt. it's a completely different beast compared to roll 20. also the fg community is friendly and very helpful. (i'm not associated with the company, but it'd be worth your money :-D)

Sczarni

thx for the insight.

let's be specific: would 200k+ gp for a pc who just leveled to 13-1 seem a lot?

Sczarni

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i am reviewing my players' stat sheets and wanted to know if there is a way to know the max gp at any praticular level.

assuming playing pathfinder society and it is normal advancement: +1 level per 3 scenarios (or 1 module) played, getting 1xp per scenario (or 3 for module). i am using at the pf wealth table as a guideline -- would there be any case where a pc can gain considerably more gp per session than what is prescribed in the chronicles? or is there a definite max?

if not a specific amount of gp per level, then is there a range (e.g. a pc may happen to play consistently out-of-tier)?

i hope what i'm asking makes sense... thx

Sczarni

hi, there, kyle.

just checking on the status of a specific development:

i had written in about c.m. importing hero lab files, and how it does not correctly bring certain things, or not importing certain data at all. is this a complicated fix and is it still in the works?

my original post:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l9md&page=32?Combat-Manager-application#15 82

thx.

Sczarni

okay, great. i thought i was not finding the stuff i needed, or i simply didn't do something correctly. (phew. lol)

i imagine it must be complex to code all this, so i applaud you for it. it's work in progress, i know, and users are continually providing questions and feedback, as we should :-)

i downloaded the desktop version too... happy happy joy joy (ren & stimpy reference). love it all!

i'll shoot over the .por file that has the "bundled" npcs that imported.

thanks!

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