warbaby2's page

It is indicated in the racial write-up that androids run a wide spectrum of 'how organic they are'.

Everything from 'nearly all artificial' to 'mostly meat-bag with a few artificial parts'.

So the bigger question is, does it need to be all artificial, or is it okay to have some biological systems in there?

Some robots have internal systems that approach biological as it is?

Well, there is quite a big difference rules and roleplaying appeal wise between a full android/autonomous robot and what's essentially a biodroid/cyborg... problem with robots is, they can be quite overpowered in certain situations because of their construct status.

The thing is a lot of armors don't have helmets. Heck, a lot of them just use magical (or at least magitech) forcefields to get the environment protection. And the magic for that is pretty much woven into the gear, so you'd have to completely strip the gear (which I might add is sometimes straight up their clothes) to deny them.

True, the "all armors have environmental protection built into them" rule seems to be pretty ironclad and oversimplified at the same time... It's apparent that paizo didn't want players to have to deal with hostile environments in general, but make them a tool for the GM to use when they see fit.

I've been playing around with creating a robot/true android race since the CRB hit using the Advanced Races Guide... the three biggest points of contention for me are.
a) Their bodies have to be constructs, which brings with it certain benefits and drawbacks.
b) They have to be true AIs, which makes their minds computers, as far the SF rules are concerned.
c) They have to be very variable/upgradable.
So, combining PF and SF rules, that means:

Type: Construct (true AI)
Size: Variable (based on their build, androids can be small to large)
Speed: Normal 30ft (based on their build, they can have other types of locomotion at the GM's discretion)
Ability Score Modifiers: +4 to INT; +2 to any one Ability score other than CON and CHA; -4 to CHA
Language: Binary and Common
Upgrades: Based on their build/size, true androids can receive a variety of upgrades, from weapons/armor to new body parts.

The rest of the racial trails is still kinda up in the air, but there should be something like "alien mind" in there that reduces Charisma based skills. Also, while their "black box" (the AI itself) is not hackable, their bodies very well could be, so computer upgrades should also play a role.

Has been discussion in my round and kinda related, is there any rule that casting requieres free hands? (would also explain the missing spell failure chance)

Unknown, since - aside from some spells - there are no components noted... I'd say no.

warbaby2 wrote:

MakuTheDark wrote:

In the Core, it does mention they have biological components, thus their need to eat and sleep.

*shrugs* No lungs but they do have a stomach lol

That's because paizo didn't want to make them full constructs for balancing reasons... as far as (scifie literature) definitions go, an android is a (full) robot made to resemble a human. SF androids are actually closer to bio droids, cyborgs or even replicants.

Figured that. I imagine the flavor of the androids in SF/PF being like Robin William's character in Millennium Man when it comes to having organic-like parts but not being organic. Would do replicants but then that would be too organic fer my taste.

True... although, according to the fluff, older SF android models have been mostly biological, which would have made them replicants.

Hm, actually, the Nier Automata androids also come to mind here... they didn't need to eat or sleep either, but they could, and they also did bleed.

In the Core, it does mention they have biological components, thus their need to eat and sleep.

*shrugs* No lungs but they do have a stomach lol

That's because paizo didn't want to make them full constructs for balancing reasons... as far as (scifie literature) definitions go, an android is a (full) robot made to resemble a human. SF androids are actually closer to bio droids, cyborgs or even replicants.

I think that both are necessary. You don't get to fly on a planet without atmosphere.

Not like that, true... "Walk the Void" essentially gives you controlled floating, which could be a life saver when you, for instance, get spaced and have no surfaces in reach to cling to or push off from.

As far as the exact rule wording goes, artificial gravity on the outer hull of a station or ship, or reduced gravity on a moon or asteroid could be a grey area, though...

For my "Xenoverse" setting, I'll go with two types of mecha.

T.M.W.S (Tactical Maneuver Weapon Systems):
- Roughly power armor sized
- 1 pilot
- Wielding heavy/scaled up close combat and ranged weapons
- Remote power supply via energy transfer from a relay (spaceship, station, etc.)

A.M.W.S (Assault Maneuver Weapon Systems):
- Huge and larger ins size
- 1-3 operators
- Wielding low tier space ship weaponry and further scaled up melee weapons
- Autonomous, self replenishing power supply (reactor)

The whole "constructed" trait is... odd... to say the least. Per definition, androids aren't biomechanical constructs, the are very sophisticated robots, so they should really be pure constructs rules wise, which would include total immunity to all toxins and gases (except corrosive ones) as well as mental effects like daze, charm, fear, etc. In turn, they should not be able to naturally heal or be healed by magical/chemical means, but have to be repaired.

That's probably how I will handle them in my game...

In terms of the rules as written, they only a receive +2 bonus against gases, so they still "breathe" those in, in some fashion.

I'm asking this to know when the "Walk the Void" is active, but there may be other abilities that work in "Space".

"You also gain a fly speed of 20 feet while in space." -Walk the Void

So, if I'm on a Space Station, am I "in space"? What if the Space Station is deactivated or without atmosphere?

My guess would be: As soon as you are in a vacuum and in zero gravity... so a vented, out of power space station or derelict ship could count.

Voss wrote:

Don't need one. Casting time for energy ray is a standard action. Magic missile is standard action, see text (and text says: can also be cast as a full action).

Cast a spell, p246 (which is at least a standard action, unless stated otherwise) is a separate standard action from the attack standard action, p244.

The text on 331-2 is largely defining things so you can't finagle the restrictions on invisibility, sanctuary and similar spells.

Starfinder is pretty restrictive, not permissive, on action types.

Casting spells, like most of the things under standard action, don't include the possibility of doing multiples as full actions.

Attack and Full Attack aren't the same action, and have different requirements.

Again, pg 332 explicitly says spells that require attack rolls, deal damage, etc are attacks. They've also omitted the clarification that the attack roll is simply part of casting the spell. (In the Pathfinder CRB this is explicitly laid out around page 185 in the section about touch attacks.) They've gone out of the way to declare that damaging spells are attacks.

True, but I still think that - as far as multiple actual attacks are concerned - they are considered (standard) actions. Besides, while spells that require an attack roll are considered attacks under certain circumstances (ie. triggering reactions to attacks), the Full Attack action specifically only talks about weapons, not all forms of attacks.

I just can't get over the 14d20 for disintegrate. I love it.

True, the number of dice needed per type has risen dramatically with SF... my guys will dig it, they just love rolling. ;)

I could very easily see a vesk referring to all shirren as "prawns" they have that whole district 9 thing going on

If we are quoting movies, I'll go with "trash panda" for multi colored Ysoki... I mean, come on, you know somebody will make a Rocket Raccoon in EVERY group.

warbaby2 wrote:

Or did I miss a rule there... I mean, I get that magic for the classes we have right now hardly gets more powerful than the special abilities of the other classes, and there also seem to be no spell components, so somatic restrictions are out of the window, but still, one seems to be able to even cast in power armor without any drawbacks right now...

The main drawback seems to be the ability to actually use the power armor in the first place. There're a few feats involved, I believe.

True, although, by the time the good PAs become "available", those feats can easily be equired... not that technomancers need many others, since "metamagic" has been rolled into the class.

Cyrad wrote:

You can use jolting surge to make a pretty fun close combat mage.

You can but it may well be a bad idea. You are looking at prioritising str to have any sort of reasonable chance to connect and you still need Int to power your number of spells. You cannot ignore dex as you only have light armour and ignoring con is a path to death in melee.

Basically you become very MAD if you want to do melee as a technomancer.

Higher tier weapons (which - if powered - even can be used as a conduit for the spell) and armor can go a long way there, though...

The easiest method would be to just call magic something else... that's what I'll do in my Xenosaga/gears inspired setting. Any tech, if advanced enough, could just as easily be called magic. I'll call it Ether (aka. Especial Theory of Rudimentary) and link it to the (renamed Mysticism) Meta Sciences skill.

Or did I miss a rule there... I mean, I get that magic for the classes we have right now hardly gets more powerful than the special abilities of the other classes, and there also seem to be no spell components, so somatic restrictions are out of the window, but still, one seems to be able to even cast in power armor without any drawbacks right now...

Also, speaking of power armor. Anyone else a bit underwhelmed with those? They are no mechs, sure, but aside from the "Jarlslayer", with it's nice Str of 29, they seem not really worth it, especially considering the very limited battery life the combat models have.