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DM Talomyr's Kingmaker Re-Recruitment part 2

Best of luck to everyone :)
DM Talomyr's Kingmaker Re-Recruitment part 2

Must be a really close decision :).
DM Talomyr's Kingmaker Re-Recruitment part 2

Marble might be a bit of a country girl, but she's built to be one of the best batman/support wizard(s), with her selection spells, ability to craft magic items, precise shot for ranged touch attacks, and most importantly crafting skills for building structures!

Don't you fret about Magic Items and Kingdom building getting pricey, Marble is here to help claim the Stolen Lands!

Mechanics:
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Backstory and Description
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Ingenuity has always been the cornerstone of Marble Beth's life, the Jublimick family having been renown craftsman throughout the ages. Whilst Marble's branch of the family is better known for their moonshine, Marble had a keen mind for architecture, and a thirst to learn magic. Even saving up her allowance to obtain cantrip scrolls, and practicing her spells on her favorite rabbit Cinnabun. Her parents saved up to send Marble to the Pitaxian Academy, there she acquired knowledge about the arcane, history, and a variety of other studies. However, engineering and architecture were always at the forefront of her studies.

Hearing news of the expedition to reclaim the Stolen Lands, and help establish a new nation, Marble gathered her things, bid farewell to her friends at the Academy, and ventured to Oleg's Trading Post. With the glimmer of adventure and opportunity sparkling in her eye.

Marble stands at a might 3'2" for a gnome, and comes weighing in at a spry 35 pounds. Though her hair is frequently covered by her favorite widebrimmed straw hat, it's a verdant moss green, and her skin has a copper-like hue from her time in the sun. For clothing she tends to wear whatever is most comfortable, preferably something with a lot of pockets. As she loves to have access to her various tools.

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Character Sheet
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Marble Beth Jublimick
Female gnome Wizard 4
NG Small humanoid (gnome)
Init +6; Senses Lowlight Vision; Perception +0

Racial Favored Class Bonus:
Add + 1/2 to the number of uses per day of arcane school powers. This increase only applies to arcane school powers available at 1st level and normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard’s Intelligence modifier.
Secluded Grimoire, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/secluded-grimoire

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Defense
--------------------
AC 13 (Base) 17 (Mage Armor), 13 touch , flat-footed 10 (Base) 14 (Mage Armor)
hp 28 (4d6 + 3 (Con))
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +4
Defensive Abilities
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Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft
Masterwork Longbow Attack + 6, Damage 1d6, Crit x3 Range 100ft Type Piercing
(Proficient because of Master Tinker)
Masterwork Longsword Attack +2, Damage 1d6-1, Crit 19-20x2 Type Slashing
(Proficient because of Master Tinker)

Special Attacks
Spell Save DC: 10 + 5 + Spell Level + (if Illusion +1)
Range Touch Attack Spells: d20 + (Dex) 2 + 2 + 1 (small) + (if point-blank +1)
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 18 (+2 = 20), Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +2; CMB 0; CMD 12

Class Abilities:
Arcane Bond: Hare, "Cinnabun" +4 Init

Arcane School: Arcane Crafter
An Arcane crafter is one of the builders of the arcane world, assembling magic items with facility, skill, and power. He is intimately familiar with the craft and practice of imbuing items with arcane power, and works with precision even early in his career to help create some of the most powerful magic items.

Associated School: Universalist.

Replacement Power: The following school power replaces the hand of the apprentice power of the universalist school.
Metacharge (Ex)
As an Arcane crafter, you gain a bonus feat at 3rd level, which must be an item creation feat or metamagic feat. You must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums. When using metamagic feats to create magic items, your skill and understanding of the principles involved in the item’s creation give you a +2 bonus on the skill check made to create the item.

Metamagic Mastery (Su)
At 8th level, you can apply any one metamagic feat that you know to a spell you are about to cast. This does not alter the level of the spell or the casting time. You can use this ability once per day at 8th level and one additional time per day for every two wizard levels you possess beyond 8th. Any time you use this ability to apply a metamagic feat that increases the spell level by more than 1, you must use an additional daily usage for each level above 1 that the feat adds to the spell. Even though this ability does not modify the spell’s actual level, you cannot use this ability to cast a spell whose modified spell level would be above the level of the highest-level spell that you are capable of casting.

Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo-a rcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/universalist/

Prepared Spells
Cantrips
Prestidigitation, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/prestidigitation
Light, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/light
Detect Magic, Reference, https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-magic
Read Magic, https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/read-magic

1st Level
Mage Armor, Color Spray, Mount, Ray of Enfeeblement, Silent Image

2nd Level
Hideous Laughter, Invisibility, Rope Trick

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Feats
Scribe Scroll, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craft Wondrous Items

Traits
Riverlander, Benefit Your hardy nature grants you a +1 trait bonus on all Fortitude saves.
Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/kingmaker/rostlander/

Hedge Magician, Benefit: Whenever you craft a magic item, you reduce the required gp cost to make the item by 5%.
Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/hedge-magician/

Skills ((Class Base) 2 + (Int) 5 = 7 * (Level) 4 = 28) + 3 from favored class = 31 Total
Appraise: Ranks 1 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 = 9
Spellcraft: Ranks 4 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 = 12
Knowledge (Arcana): Ranks 4 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 = 12
Knowledge (Geography): Ranks 2 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 = 10
Knowledge (History): Ranks 2 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 = 10
Knowledge (Nature): Ranks 2 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 = 10
*Headband of Intellect (3 Ranks) Knowledge (Dungeoneering): Ranks 3 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 = 11
Knowledge (Engineering): Ranks 4 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 + 1 (Master Tinker) + 2 (Obsessive) = 15
Craft (Armor): Ranks 2 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 + 2 (MW Tools) = 12
Craft (Leather): Ranks 2 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 + 2 (MW Tools) = 12
*Headband of Intellect (1 Rank) Craft (Weapons): Ranks 3 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 + 2 (MW Tools) = 13
Craft (Stonemasonry): Ranks 2 + (Int) 5 + (Class Skill) 3 + 2 (MW Tools) = 12
Disable Device: Ranks 0 + 2 (Dex) + 1 (Master Tinker) = 3
Stealth: Ranks 0 + 2 (Dex) + 4 (Size) = 6

Languages Common, Gnome, Sylvan, Dwarven, Elven, Draconic, (*Headband of Intellect) Giant

Combat
Mastwork Longbow (Proficient because of Master Tinker)
Arrows x 120
Masterwork Longsword (Proficient because of Master Tinker)

Other Gear:
Handy Haversack
Bedroll
Soap
Whetstone
Trail Rations x 5
Silk Rope
Spellbook
Ink
Inkpen
Outfit, Explorer's x 3
Wand of Protection from Evil
Artisan Tools Masterwork

Money:
Starting Gold 6000 GP
Mastwork Longbow - (Base Cost 375 GP, Crafted at 1/3 cost 125 Gold)
Masterwork Longsword - (Base Cost 315 GP, Crafted at 1/3 cost 105 Gold) (Proficient because of Master Tinker)
Arrows x 12 (120) - (Base Cost 12 GP, Crafted at 1/3 cost 4 Gold)
Handy Haversack - (1000 Craft Price - 5% from Hedge Magician = 950 - 1 x scroll of secret chest 1125 = 2075)
Bedroll - 1 sp
Soap - 1 cp
Whetstone - 2 cp
Trail Rations x 5 - 2 gp 5 sp
Silk Rope - 10 gp
Spellbook - 15 gp
Ink - 8 gp
Inkpen - 1 sp
Outfit, Explorer's x 3 - 30 gp
Scroll of Levitate - 150 gp
Scroll of Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (x4) - 100 gp
Scroll of Silent Image - 25 gp
Scroll of Resist Energy - 150 gp
Scroll of Mirror Image - 150 gp
Scroll of Rope Trick - 150 gp
Wand of Protection from Evil - 750 gp
Artisan Tools Masterwork - 55 gp
Scroll of Fox's Cunning - 150
Headband of Vast Intelligence +2 - (2000 craft price - 5% from Hedge Magician = 1900)

Remaining
45 Gold
2 Silver
7 Copper

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Special Abilities
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Illusion Resistance: Gnomes gain a +2 racial saving throw bonus against illusion spells and effects.

Keen Senses: Gnomes receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.

Obsessive: Gnomes receive a +2 racial bonus on a Craft or Profession skill of their choice.

Utilitarian Magic: Some gnomes develop practical magic to assist them with their obsessive projects. These gnomes add 1 to the DC of any saving throws against transmutation spells they cast. If their Intelligence score is 11 or higher, they also gain the following spell-like abilities 1/day—mage hand, open/close, prestidigitation, and unseen servant. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the gnome’s Intelligence modifier. This racial trait replaces gnome magic.

Master Tinker Gnomes experiment with all manner of mechanical devices. Gnomes with this racial trait gain a +1 bonus on Disable Device and Knowledge (engineering) checks. They are treated as proficient with any weapon they have personally crafted. This racial trait replaces defensive training and hatred.

Fey Fortitude: Gnomes with this racial trait are infused with a connection to life. They gain a +2 racial bonus on saves to resist death effects. This replaces weapon familiarity.

Low-Light Vision: Gnomes can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.

Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/gnome/
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Spellbook
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Cantrips (Level 0)
All Reference:https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard?/#TOC-Cantri ps

Level 1
Mage Armor, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mage-armor
Identify, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/identify
Color Spray, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/color-spray
Enlarge Person, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enlarge-person
Ray of Enfeeblement, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/ray-of-enfeeblement
Mount, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mount
Alarm, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/alarm
Comprehend Languages, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/comprehend-languages
Charm Person, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/charm-person
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law,
References: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/protection-from-evil/ , https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/protection-from-good/ , https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/protection-from-chaos/ , https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/protection-from-law/
Silent Image, https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/silent-image

Level 2
Invisibility, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/invisibility
Hideous Laughter, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hideous-laughter
Levitate, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/levitate
Resist Energy, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/resist-energy
Mirror Image, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mirror-image
Rope Trick, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/rope-trick
Fox's Cunning, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fox-s-cunning
Mirror Image, Reference: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fox-s-cunning
Blur, https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blur
DM Talomyr's Kingmaker Re-Recruitment part 2

If it sent two of the same PM, I'm not really sure why.
Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
Lady Melo wrote:

Suggestions like these confuse me, they are still attempting to make a game that matches their idea of the Pathfinder fiction, not just any new game from scratch.

Also classes do serve a purpose, a character can be just as defined by what they can't get as what they can get. As well as how a collection of features can possess an in world identity.

Now yes you could make the same effect with a classless system, whose options include forced penalties on some selections, feature lock outs, and many roleplaying requirements for various selections, but then ultimately why?

PF1 already suffers from seriously scaring peeps away (some of my group simply can't handle it, where as some members embrace it and build complex monsters, this in turn pushes the other people away farther).

A completely open system would push them farther away from PF1e feel and most likely reach a greater alienating level of complexity (like trying to play exalted with people new to RPGs).

However a solid simply core (I still feel a little too simple, they need to pad out level 1 on most classes), that they can continue to add complexity on top of would have a much broader appeal.

Let me just say, I don't give a hoot about Pathfinder's fiction. Honestly, after 5E came out I stopped caring about Pathfinder almost altogether. So feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt.

I don't think a modular system need require penalties, that or blocking a character from accessing various features. In fact, your comment about classes, "can be just as defined by what they can't get as what they can get", says that classes do literally the same thing.

As for an In World Identity, why not let the character and player make their own? Rather than, "I'm Grishnak Half-orc barbarian number 5945490904905492342341, I smack things with great axe." Instead, let Grishnak pick the rage ability, but what if he wants to fight like a monk? Give him martial arts feats, and you've got a berserking monk of badassitude.

I think a streamlined open system, would be far easier than this sort of.. Half modular half old school mix that is currently going on. Cause the minute sidebooks start rolling out, these are just going to get out of hand quick.
Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
velwein wrote:
Overly complicated, while I've played my fair share of rpgs. New players might look at all these options and be overwhelmed. There is so much to choose from, that and when you add supplements?

Actually, one of the goals is to simplify these options in some way. Take a look at P1 now. Not only does it have an abundance of options that can be overwhelming to new players there are more silos for those options.

Personally, I have found that newer players have no problem with the current range of silos and find it much easier to navigate them than the current mix of feats, racial traits, talents, powers, spell-like abilities, traits (and the various sub-categories of those), exploits, evolutions, mysteries, and so on.

Of course, my observations, while broad, are anecdotal, and hence the reason why we are doing this playtest. Thank you very much for the feedback. It is appreciated.

I'll take a gander at P1, and review it.

I agree, current Pathfinder is just... blah. Which is sad, cause it has the ratfolk race, and I'm rather a big fan of the little dudes. Wish 5E had them, but oh well.

Sure thing.
Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
Rysky wrote:
velwein wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
While this is a playtest and we are evaluating everything, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we will not be removing classes from the game.

Sadly, what looks good on paper isn't always in practice. That and you might not see x + y = infinite combo until it's too late. That or if you're making new feats later, you've got to go back, run through every possible combination of other feats and make sure they play nice.

Ideally, I agree, it'd be awesome

That applies to... any and every system ever.

I actually replied to the wrong guy with that one, I meant to reply to Moro. :(

Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
velwein wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
While this is a playtest and we are evaluating everything, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we will not be removing classes from the game.

Sadly, what looks good on paper isn't always in practice. That and you might not see x + y = infinite combo until it's too late. That or if you're making new feats later, you've got to go back, run through every possible combination of other feats and make sure they play nice.

Ideally, I agree, it'd be awesome

Killin' me bro... Killin' me.

Joking aside.. Then based off of what I've seen so far...

What I like,
The action economy is awesome.
Spell casting is wonderful as well.

Issues,
Feat bloat, out the gate we've got feats for races, classes, and etc. While neat in terms of customization, it's going to cause you guys no end of problems down the road. Since throwing classes out isn't possible, you could reduce the classes, making various ones subtypes or feats for an overarching class. However, I'm going to go out on a limb, and say we're just going to stick with what's there. So, I guess just ride the tidal wave of feats. Cause it's bound to get gnarly anyway.

Overly complicated, while I've played my fair share of rpgs. New players might look at all these options and be overwhelmed. There is so much to choose from, that and when you add supplements?

Getting Pathfinder players to buy it, people went with Pathfinder cause it catered to, "I don't want to change editions." That and 4th ed was a neat concept, but ended up being poorly executed. In my opinion, 4th ed would have done better, if it hadn't been called Dungeons and Dragons. However, that's a debate for another time. I'm worried your own fan base won't be willing to transition.
Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
While this is a playtest and we are evaluating everything, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we will not be removing classes from the game.

Sadly, what looks good on paper isn't always in practice. That and you might not see x + y = infinite combo until it's too late. That or if you're making new feats later, you've got to go back, run through every possible combination of other feats and make sure they play nice.

Ideally, I agree, it'd be awesome
Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
1 person marked this as a favorite.
BluLion wrote:
I'm a bit torn in regards to classes. I like the feel of classes, and they help with building a functioning character, but at the same time, I feel that a classless system will make building a specific concept easier.

I think as Waterslethe recommended, where the original classes are presented in already made kits, with a clear progression lined out, would make that easy for new players to run with.

Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
Zedth wrote:

That is a neat idea but it might be more challenging that its worth. It would inevitably lead to people picking the "best" feats and leaving the lesser powered ones on a shelf. Having classes helps separate these feats into categories that make better thematic sense for each particular chassis, to help flesh out that person's role in the party. It would be fairly difficult to balance the hundreds of feats to make most/all of them appealing enough to actually get used.

I'm not saying it can't be done - it can, as Volkard said, the Hero System uses a system where you can build ANY kind of superhero character you can imagine. But at some point it wouldn't even resemble the fantasy tropes we've come to love and expect, the fantasy paradigms that grew out of D&D.

Ah, I mean true can use a system like Hero or Gurps. However, from my perspective, Pathfinder 2.0 is sort of a bad hybrid of those systems and D&D. I understand wanting to stick to roots from where Pathfinder came, but at the same time, Pathfinder has already gone off into left field. Sometimes embracing change is exactly what is needed.

As for the "best", I mean, you'll have that with their current system anyway. Each class and race will have the perfect mix to form something broken, it's more about trying to keep it balanced, and presenting each option as something fun to use. Rather than focusing on what min-maxing munchkins will do.
Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
CraziFuzzy wrote:
though I see no reason to have 'branches', just well managed prerequisites.

Branches are just an easy way to show prereq's :)

Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Use the Hero System.

Goal achieved.

Did I miss the Hero System in their pdf? Which page?

Pathfinder 2 - Remove classes entirely
4 people marked this as a favorite.

Reviewing the new modular approach to 2nd ed Pathfinder, I believe classes are counter-intuitive to this approach.

Instead, I believe the player should be able to pick the features they want. That and I would use this to streamline the feats found in the game, make three main branches, spells, combat, skills, and then continue to separate them from there. Rather than this massive bloat of feats right out of the gate, which is only going to get worse with side books.