tomorrow's page

Necromancy can have varying flavors. Lots of classes other then wizards have necromancy flavored archetypes. Plus you have just plain ole spell selection and roleplay flavor.

You can have pain effect masters.
You can have fear effect masters.
You can have nature defilers/druids gone bad.
You can have negative energy specialists.
You can have zombie/skeletal horde masters.
You can have seekers of unlife who specialize in mixing transmutation with necromancy to one day become undead creatures.
You can dessication focused mummy/dry lich style necromancers.
You can have vampire lord types who mix enchantment with necromancy.
You could try to revive the old Uttercold Necromancer theme by mixing in cold and negative energy usage.

Near as I can tell, without accounting for Patron Spells/Bloodline Spells or the use of the Still Spell feat, no somatic component spell list for Witch or Sorcerer seems to be:

Witch
0 - Light
1 – Command
2 – Blindness/Deafness, Steal Voice
3 – Lover’s Vengeance, Screech, Spit Venom, Suggestion, Tongues, Vision of Hell
4 – Communal Tongues, Dimension Door, Lesser Geas
5 – Contact Other Plane, Damnation Stride, Teleport, Truespeak
6 – Geas, Ice Crystal Teleport, Mass Suggestion, Unconscious Agenda
7 – Greater Teleport, Phase Door, Power Word Blind, Teleport Object
8 – Irresistible Dance, Mass Charm Monster, Nine Lives, Power Word Stun
9 – Power Word Kill, Teleport Circle, Wail of the Banshee

Sorcerer/Wizard
0 –Flare, Light, Sotto Voce
1 – Chastise, Feather Fall, Flare Burst, Hold Portal, Liberating Command, Lighten Object, True Strike, Ventriloquism,
2 – Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Bouyancy, Darkness, Knock, Steal Voice
3 – Displacement, Dweomer Retailation, Lover’s Vengeance, Suggestion, Tongues, Vision of Hell
4 – Communal Tongues, Dimension Door, Emergency Force Sphere, Lesser Geas, Shout,
5 – Contact Other Plane, Damnation Stride, Echolocation, Mass Lighten Object, Planar Adaptation, Teleport, Truespeak
6 – Geas, Ice Crystal Teleport, Mass Suggestion, Unconscious Agenda
7 – Greater Teleport, Phase Door, Power Word Blind, Resonating Word, Teleport Object
8 – Irresistible Dance, Mass Charm Monster, Nine Lives, Power Word Stun
9 – Fiery Body, Interplanetary Teleport, Mage’s Disjunction, Power Word Kill, Prismatic Sphere, Teleport Circle, Time Stop, Wail of the Banshee

If that helps anyone with builds. Of course basic utility cantrips are still available for both too, as arcane spell failure just means occasional additional castings before said cantrips work.

It is a ranged attack, even if it didn't have the line saying its treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, the fact that it is an damaging attack made at range requiring an ranged attack roll means its a ranged attack. I have a very hard time seeing how "Hand of the Acolyte" is not a ranged attack.

Does anyone know of any example of a damage attack, made at range, that requires a ranged attack roll that isn't a ranged attack?

Reading these boards always makes me feel like I must game with some of most sadistic DMs ever, because when it comes to combat tactics, the opponents level of expertise is always pretty much limited to the DM's own, pro-rated by the amount of prep and planning they get before encounters. I have actually seen giant spiders seemingly using complex traps, not to mention inexplicably targeting casters first, not using standard attacks versus high AC characters, webbing melee characters so they can't close, deftly avoiding getting flanked by the rogues. Friggin' genius spiders.

I wouldn't put more weight on a low Intelligence than the basic mechanics do. If you have a 7, you have a -2 penalty to raw Intelligence checks and untrained intelligence based skills. The difference between you with a 7 and the "average" guy with a 10 is reflected in say the odds of making untrained Knowledge check (or even a trained one for that matter). The disparity of his intelligence coming up in-game is dependent upon the nature of encounters calling upon intelligence.

As for roleplay, since D&D and Pathfinder divide up mental prowess amongst three stats in an only semi-obvious fashion with only vague parameters its not really possible to lay down hard and fast assessments. Its even unclear trying to use the stats as guidelines for rp'ing because the stats are vague enough in application that the exactly same array could represent vastly different ways to roleplay a character.

If a guy has Int 7 and Cha 18, maybe he never sounds unintelligent at all but when tested (when he actually has to roll Int tests) he is often actually wrong, or maybe he does sound unintelligent but is likeable anyway, or maybe yada-yada-yada. Throw in Wis X and the situation gets even murkier. Does a decent Wis mean said guy is wrong less often because he's better at knowing when not to blindly guess or is clever enough to make statements broad enough that they can't really be totally wrong?

I imagine with some mason hirelings to take it apart piece-by-piece, enough stone to flesh spell applications, and a lot of time on your hands, a human could eat a castle or at least most of a castle.

I agree that there are probably some generalization here, and that there isn't really a one-size fits all answer.

On the one hand, for example, as kmal2t has put it, if you're the one walking away from the table... why has no one come to your defense? That's a valid question. But I don't necessarily think it places fault with the person leaving. There are tons of possible reasons why others might not say anything.

1. Its just a game and no one but the DM and player seem to care.
2. A domineering DM that players just don't like to cross.
3. The quiter is new to the group.
4. The DM is particularly manipulative.
5. The quitter while in the right, isn't very well liked (maybe he/she is smelly or something)
6. The group is in-to-deep into the game and doesn't want to throw the campaign away even if the DM is in the wrong.
7. Groupthink has overtaken the group's decision making and they are, in fact, all dumping on the quitter without even realizing it.

Etc, etc., etc... and of course an equal number of ways it might one-hundred percent be on the player quitting.

The flag and the bearer are two seperate items.

Courageous will increase the bonus its bearer gets.
Flagbearer increases the bonus the flag provides.

So, the flagbearer lets the flag bestow a +2 bonus instead of a +1 bonus...he's enhancing the flag.

The flag then provides him a +2 morale bonus, which his Courageous weapon increases to +5.

The Courageous weapon does nothing to the flag. It enhances the person, not a magic item.

==Aelryinth

The basic flag doesn't provide any bonus at all. It's just a non-magical piece of cloth on a stick.

The Flagbearer feat provides the basic bonus of +1 morale on saves vs. fear and charm effects, +1 morale to attack rolls, and +1 morale to weapon damage rolls to all allies (including yourself) within 30 ft. (who can see the flag).

The Courageous enhancement (presumably on the Flagbearer's longspear) increases morale bonuses the wielder gains from any source by X (X being 1/2 enhancement bonus of the Courageous weapon).

The Banner of Ancient Kings doubles the bonus provided by the Flagbearer feat.

It is strictly an order of operations issue.

If you apply Courageous to the Flagbearer morale bonus first, then the Flagbearer bonus is +8 for the wielder and +2 for everyone else. If you apply the Banner of the Ancient Kings first then the wielder receives +5 and everyone else still receives +2.

If you want to muddy the waters even further, you can throw in Improved Eldritch Heritage (Imperious - Heroic Echos). Heroic Echos also adds a +1 to all morale bonuses for the possessor of the bloodline power (also does it for competence bonuses if your effective sorcerer level is 9 or higher) and as an immediate action (a few times per day), if such a bonus is coming from a source that also provides the bonus to others, you can increase it for them too for a short period. And there is of course also the Rage ability and the Furious enhancement. (It is actually possible for a single character to have all of these without even multi-classing, for example a Evangelist Cleric of Ragathiel with the Destruction/Rage domain/subdomain who takes the Flagbearer feat and the Eldritch Heritage (Imperious) line of feats and picks up a Courageous, Furious Longspear with Banner of the Ancient Kings would have it all around level 12-13 and probably also the Superstition rage power to boot, its a morale bonus too after all.)

In any event, again, its purely an order of operations issue. All of the abilities augment the morale bonus. The fact that Banner double the bonus provided by Flagbearer feat is semantics and likewise not very helpful, as both Courageous and Heroic Echos state that they increase the bonus. The bonus itself is still the bonus provided by the Flagbearer feat and thus subject to doubling.

The question is simply whether the doubling from the Banner of Ancient Kings occurs before or after other increases to the bonus are applied.

I actually asked this question myself a few days ago. The response I recieved was additions first, then multiplications. So seemingly, the bonuses can get pretty nuts.

Of course, with Flagbearer, the bonus can become a penalty if the flag is destroyed or stolen, so a buffed bonus is also a potentially worse Achilles Heel too.