|
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
|
One of the Magic domain's granted powers.
Hand of the Acolyte (Su): You can cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
1. Using a supernatural power doesn't trigger an attack of opportunity, but does throwing the melee weapon trigger one? (Or is throwing the weapon part of using the supernatural ability?)
2. If I throw a 2-handed weapon, do I get a 1 1/2 Strength modifier bonus to damage?
1. I would say your not technically throwing it...it flies from your hand and uses your wisdom not your dex...I would go with no AoO
2. I would say no...you normally only add 1xstr on thrown weapons even if using 2 hands
Still not convinced on #1. Especially the part, "This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon,..." And a ranged attack triggers an attack of opportunity.
Hopefully others will chime in on their thoughts.
I think I'd say no. Distracting actions provoke attacks of opportunity.
Using your standard action to make a ranged attack provokes an attack of opportunity. Using Hand of the Acolyte is using your standard action to activate a supernatural ability that results in an attack that is treated like ranged attack with a thrown weapon.The action undertaken, not how the attack is treated dictates whether other not an AoO is provoked.
PRD wrote: Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
If you have a supernatural ability to say, cast ray of frost, casting ray of frost in this way cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, regardless of the fact that normally casting ray of frost would do/require all those things. The same should hold true for Hand of the Acolyte. Even though the attack is treated as a ranged attack from a thrown weapon, the action taken is still using a supernatural ability which does not provoke AoO.
There are cases of an action provoking two AoOs. Casting a spell provokes an AoO, then the spell states you make a ranged attack, which provokess another AoO. This would be the case with held charges except for the rule treating them as 'armed.'
In this case the activation of the ability is SU, so no AoO. The ranged attack is another separate action which would still provoke an AoO.
I say no AoO.
Using a SU that allows you to make an attack which is treated as making a ranged attack, is not making a ranged attack. It's using a SU with an effect that is treated a certain way to resolve. But the action you took was using SU, not making ranged attack.
1) Ranged attacks provoke AoO. You need a feat or ability like Point Blank Master to remove the AoO when making a ranged attack.
2) x1 Str since that's how thrown weapons work. Normally throwing a two handed weapon would take a full round action but in this case it uses the SU's time of standard instead.
Oops, I'm wrong on the supernatural ability thing, given the rule on casting ray spells defensively. Given that, I would say that Hand of the Acolyte would provoke. Sorry for the 360 on this.
PRD wrote:
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn (see FAQ below for more information.)
FAQ/Errata
When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?
Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events. (Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.
Rays aren't SU abilities, they are spells. (generally)
The other difference I see there is that rays ARE a ranged attack, eligible for weapon focus and all the other things that modify ranged attacks.
This is not. This a Su ability that you treat as a ranged attack after you make it when you resolve it's effect.
I guess the obvious way to abuse it is to keep some big honking Storm Giant Weapon in a glove of storing or something.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
It is a ranged attack, even if it didn't have the line saying its treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, the fact that it is an damaging attack made at range requiring an ranged attack roll means its a ranged attack. I have a very hard time seeing how "Hand of the Acolyte" is not a ranged attack.
Does anyone know of any example of a damage attack, made at range, that requires a ranged attack roll that isn't a ranged attack?
tomorrow wrote: It is a ranged attack, even if it didn't have the line saying its treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, the fact that it is an damaging attack made at range requiring an ranged attack roll means its a ranged attack. I have a very hard time seeing how "Hand of the Acolyte" is not a ranged attack.
Does anyone know of any example of a damage attack, made at range, that requires a ranged attack roll that isn't a ranged attack?
Telekinesis and similar effects.
Hand of the Acolyte is like a single target Telekinesis locked into violent thrust used as a SU ability rather than a spell.
Okay, you didn't answer the question.
I'm not reading how hurling items with Violent Thrust doesn't count as making ranged attacks either, other than the fact that the weapons/objects thrown don't originate from you (not sure that defeats them still being ranged attacks, but RAI I could see that implying that AoO due to ranged attacks being made shouldn't apply to violent thrust attacks)... which isn't the case with HotA.
tomorrow wrote: Okay, you didn't answer the question.
I'm not reading how hurling items with Violent Thrust doesn't count as making ranged attacks either, other than the fact that the weapons/objects thrown don't originate from you (not sure that defeats them still being ranged attacks, but RAI I could see that implying that AoO due to ranged attacks being made shouldn't apply to violent thrust attacks)... which isn't the case with HotA.
I did answer the question.
Casting a spell is not making a ranged attack. It or may not result in a ranged attack or ranged attack roll, the details of which may not may not be adjudicated identically to making a ranged attack depending on the circumstances.
Using a supernatural ability is not making a ranged attack. It or may not result in a ranged attack or ranged attack roll, the details of which may not may not be adjudicated identically to making a ranged attack depending on the circumstances.
That answers the question.
Well, that simply appears to not be true, given the example of spells that allow ranged touch attacks.
PRD wrote:
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn (see FAQ below for more information.)
What you're saying implies that only spells that include ranged touch attacks count as making ranged attacks, which I can find nothing at all supporting.
A ray spell allow you to make ranged touch attacks as part of the spell, Telekinesis (violent thrust) allows you to make ranged attacks as part of the spell. If the ranged touch attack made as part of a ray spell counts as a ranged attack that provokes an AoO independent of the casting provocation, then it follows that Telekinesis (violent thrust) would too.
Edit: To be clear, I actually hope what you're saying is correct, as I like HotA (I play a lot of games that don't go higher than lvl 4-6). I'm just not seeing it.
I like recycling, so here is a new question to go with the same topic.
Can you use Hand of the Acolyte with Channel Smite? I'm going to assume 'no' and answer my own question, as the domain power treats your attack with a melee weapon as a ranged thrown attack and Channel Smite asks that I use the feat before I make a melee attack roll. In any case, is there a way around this or is this just a non-starter?
tomorrow wrote: Well, that simply appears to not be true, given the example of spells that allow ranged touch attacks.
PRD wrote:
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn (see FAQ below for more information.)
What you're saying implies that only spells that include ranged touch attacks count as making ranged attacks, which I can find nothing at all supporting.
A ray spell allow you to make ranged touch attacks as part of the spell, Telekinesis (violent thrust) allows you to make ranged attacks as part of the spell. If the ranged touch attack made as part of a ray spell counts as a ranged attack that provokes an AoO independent of the casting provocation, then it follows that Telekinesis (violent thrust) would too.
Edit: To be clear, I actually hope what you're saying is correct, as I like HotA (I play a lot of games that don't go higher than lvl 4-6). I'm just not seeing it.
It isn't a ranged touch attack though, its just a ranged attack that was the result of SU ability. IMO, it is an innate supernatural ability meaning it would not prove an AoO. Even if it was a ranged touch attack the action came from an SU and not a spell.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
