You finally got my point, this is where I wanted to go with the post to begin with, but you only seemed interested in commenting on what I had been saying doesn’t make since to you. The system I just suggested without any AC and all saving throws is exactly like 4x just with opposed attack rolls and saving throws instead of defenses that have to be hit like an AC. I think that this new CBM is going the same direction that 4x had used to get their system but pathfinder just didn’t go to the extreme that 4x had and make everything an AC. The point I planned to make is that I want something different than 4x and I don’t like the CBM system either. I think that the 3x system of opposed roles made since, it just slowed down to game play so match it made it no fun for everyone else. I would like to hear other options that could replace both systems to see if anyone else has a better idea.