sasukekorlo's page

1. The reason this whole discussion is silly is because Paizo wanted to limit the game system from being abused and so limited shields to defensive items vs. offensive items that could be enchanted as weapons and thus be both defense and offensively used and overly powerful dual wielding shields taking dual wielding feats meant for things like knives, swords, axes, etc.., Was most likely an attempt to counter pf1 shenanigans.

2. They should have just given dual wielding shields and sword and board users its own specific line of feats/talents and stated specifically the shield cannot be used for other feats/skills/powers which were meant for crafted weapons (vs crafted defensive items which *can be used as a weapon). Literally just label them all “Shield offensive ability” to eliminate confusion.

3. Shields can and were used to attack so factually they are weapons. The silliness comes in with boss and spikes. Its like me stating the swords handle isnt a weapon, but rather the blade is the weapon since its attached to the sword and what you perform is a blade swing. Talk about confusing people. You can, indeed, attack someone with a shield and knock them silly, or kill them, without a boss or spike. Removing actual realism to fit the mechanics of a fantasy game where players should actually be able to do more, not less, causes these debates.

4. Shields should have their own attack category depending on size/material. Obviously a metal shield is going to hurt much worse then a wooden one or a buckler. Tower shields are too big/cumbersome Id just state unless you are a giant you cant attack with one.

Yesterday I had a player (ranger) that decided to throw his Warhammer to the enemy (10ft).

He said that he don't suffer any range penality becouse hunter pray mark ignores first range increment penalty.

¿How should this work RAW?

¿What's the dice damage of the weapon? ¿Can he add his STR to damage? ¿What's the proficinecy?

Thanks!

1. Improvised weapon rules result in a hefty -2 attack penalty, which is more like -4 in pf1 (as an example). This general approach to hitting or missing plus not critting easily applies to the added difficulty of throwing a weapon not crafted for throwing and its resulting complete miss or lucky hit (-2 covers this).

2. Can you throw a non ranged weapon? I can, cant you? If you disagree I will gladly have you stand 5 feet away as I throw, quite heftily, any “non ranged” weapon at you. If I can do it in real life why are we discussing this about fantasy games where characters can perform heroic moves? I might even be nice and give you 10 feet, but Id probably still kill you.

3. Does strength apply? Yes, it does. It also, ironically, does in real life too. Go figure!

4. The thrown weapon now uses dex to hit vs. str for melee attacks. This might have been overlooked as another negative to choosing this method, and can be quite a big negative compounded with the hefty -2 already added on.

5. Crafted weapons already have assigned “use” difficulty. I.e. simple, martial, etc.. As such, players cannot decide its actually a improvised weapon with simple weapon proficiency. We are simply applying the improvised weapon rules that make sense when a weapon is thrown that has no range to it. This did not negate the fact it was crafted in such a way that to utilize it correctly you need greater skill (proficiency) to gain its higher damage dice plus traits. The proficiency stays the same and that same character trying to use a complex weapon to just throw it will have compounding negatives added to the generic -2.

6. This all is solved by simply making a general rule that weapons with no range thrown take a hefty -2 to hit penalty and as a GM I would consider the aerodynamics, weight, and ease of throwing when telling my player the distance thrown. The added negatives already account for the difficulty. I myself can whip a longsword easily 30 feet or more, but of course hitting a target 5’ away is much easier then 10’, and thus I would state its distance is 5’ increments. A shield can be tossed much like a frisbee with greater accuracy, as could a hammer, so maybe 10’ increments.

RAW vs RAI who cares? Be logical and apply logical rulings. The game is for fun so make the actual possible, possible in a fantasy world but with sound rulings.