plustwobonus's page

Then again, you're looking for PFS, and I'm not sure if any of that stuff is banned.

I checked that first. Frostbite, Enforcer, and Rime Spell are all PFS legal.

p.s. I should have done this in the first post, but I need to give credit to STR Ranger and Mathwei's Hexcrafter Guide for coming up with this combo. It got me thinking about rolling a non-shocking grasp Magus, which is something I've played but never found terribly interesting.

FYI I posted this question in the Rules Questions forum - I don't want to derail this thread any more.

If you make a new thread I'll FAQ it.

Have at it

Originally asked in this thread but posted here to tag for FAQ.

How does Enforcer treat damage from Spellstrike? Specifically, non-lethal damage from touch spells delivered through the Magus' weapon via Spellstrike.

The origin for this question is the combo of Spellstrike + Frostbite + Enforcer. Frostbite deals 1d6+lvl of non-lethal damage, and Enforcer triggers

"Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon"

"If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell"

so both are clearly part of the same melee attack, but it's not clear whether damage from a spell effect can trigger the Enforcer condition.

I'm undecided whether this works or not, and hesitant to put it in a PFS build without some sort of clarification. Thematically it's quite nice, since you're literally causing your enemies to become "frozen with fear." Mechanically, it gives the Magus another viable option for a workhorse 1st level spell besides Shocking Grasp.

I'm going to toss this question onto this thread, instead of making a new one (let me know if I should)...

Do damage/effects from a touch spell delivered via Spell Strike count as damage with a weapon? Or are the weapon damage and spell damage treated as entirely separate things?

The corner case for this question is the combo of Spell Strike + Frostbite + Enforcer. Frostbite deals 1d6+lvl of non-lethal damage, and Enforcer triggers

"Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon"

"If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell"

so both are clearly part of the same melee attack, but it's not clear whether damage from a spell effect can trigger the Enforcer condition.

I'm undecided whether this works or not, and hesitant to put it in a PFS build without some sort of clarification. Thematically it's quite nice, since you're literally causing your enemies to become "frozen with fear."

Touch attack spells are considered 'weapon like' by the rules.

As I read the PRD, touch attacks are considered "armed" attacks, but there's no mention of them being considered "weapon like". Can you point me towards your source? If there is something in the rules that indicates touch attacks are treated as melee weapons (and not just "armed attacks") then that would solve this issue cleanly.

“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).

Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.

It's a non issue after 2nd lev magus.

Maybe I'm just being dense/paranoid, but I can see an argument that damage from a spell effect delivered through a weapon is not necessarily damage delivered with a weapon. Is this too conservative an interpretation?

Has there been an official FAQ/errata on the interaction between Enforcer and Spellstrike? I'm thinking of rolling a hexblade magus for PFS, but I don't want to chance having a primary part of the build being ruled illegal at the table.

My concern is that the Enforcer feat triggers "Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon", which could be interpreted as either

a) whenever you deal non-lethal damage on an attack with a melee weapon
OR
b) whenever your melee weapon deals non-lethal damage

I have this ominous feeling that a judge will take the latter interpretation, and view the Frostbite damage as damage from a spell and not damage from my scimitar.

Does anyone have experience with the Enforcer + Frostbite + Spellstrike combo in PFS?