orian's page

What is the difference between a group of first levels adventurers exploring caves and slaughtering the tribe of kobolds that live inside, and a group of epic levels adventurers wandering the no man lands of the 666 layers of the Abyss slaughtering demonic red dragons resting there? It’s the same thing, well, for the epic group it means more specials effects, more maths and more time to conclude an encounter. But it’s really boring to do the same thing from level 1 to level 30 & more.

I really don’t like the concept of epic levels of the third edition. I would rather like what we could find in the od&d and ad&d rules. To me epic characters are not Superman, Batman or Thor, but are like Washington or Alexander the Great. Those ones able to federate and lead their community against strong adversary. Those ones able to be examples, paragons for their community.

I think that the current material in the Epic Handbook and Gods & Half-gods can be merged together for those who like to play Superman, Hercules and other Gandalf. And some completely new rules much more like in the old ad&d system for those characters who reach "name level", some rules where the increase of power is no more a linear progression (like today) but a logarithmical progression like in old ad&d. I would like epic rules that look like Birthright rules (without the bloodlines of course).

XP represent a character's experience.

Hum, I think you are wrong.

Levels represent a character's experience. What is the difference for a character with 1 XP's and 999 XP's ? None the character has not increased his capacities yet. But there is a difference between a character being 1st or 2nd level, he gains a increase of power, an increase of experience.

XP are no more no less a player resource, it is not a character resource. Those XP are a retribution from the GM to the players. And with those points, players can buy increases of powers for their characters : levels, magical items, permanent spells, resurections, and others transgressions (permitted) to the rules like wishes and miracles.

XP are a meta-gaming resource. There is no need of XP rules to gain levels, some D20 - OGL games do not use XP at all and characters still gain levels. So, don't be so stingy with your XP spend them, or one day they will disappear because we will notice that they are useless.
. ;)

So to Save your XP pool, keep the XP costs. ;)

As we can read in this tread people that don't want anymore that rule of "XP cost", don't want this rule because... they don't like it, giving no game or meta game explanation to this.

For memory you can not lose a level because of this rule of "XP cost". So what is the real game or meta game problem with this rule ? (Other that I don't like it)

Yes I agree with you, rage points should be a fixed amount each level, may be we could keep the CON bonus at first level, but this bonus should apply only once in the total of rage points of the barbarian.

This amount of rage point by level could be 4.

And what about this total when the barbarian gain the Constitution increase in rage ?

The thing to remember is that PCs are not magic item shops. As with other items, they sell them for half price. This is done to represent that the merchant they are selling the item to has overhead, such as guards, taxes, and his own personal income. Although adventurers do not have such things (generally) this should be balanced by not allowing them to sell for full price. If they start doing this, they have gone from being an adventurer to a business. Removing the XP component does not change this fact.

Yes but what about the NPC spellcasters ? They are not PCs, they are much more numerous than PCs, and are the one that populate and make the economy of the world/regions the PCs cross. They have all their time to craft magic items after all, they are just waiting for the PCs ;)and to sell them in the shop next to their church or academy.

It's not a question of PCs, it's a question of world environnement balance. With your system, magic items are just a kind of super-quality items. Their is no more the feeling that those items are "special", "magic", "unusual".

I don't like this idea that you can by your magic items in a shop, in my campaign there is no such kind of shops (yes, even for potions and scrolls), and it is easy to explain to my players that those shops can't exist because of the XP cost of the magic items. "So you understand, those items are only crafted on command, spellcasters don't spend their XP at random."

I don't really matter that this "limiting componant" is XP or anything else (like crafting points you would gain a limited amount each level), but magic items should not be considered just super-quality items.

P.S.
To all the PRPG team :
Thanks for your work.

Well, XP cost removal is not a good thing, or more exactly the lack of real costing resource in order to make magic items is not a good thing. With the system given in PRPG alpha, crafting magic items costs gp to create and are sold for… the double value of gp, Yes !

So crafting magic items become a very easy way to get rich or to get the funds necessary to craft even costly magic items. As soon as a spell caster can start crafting magic items, there is no way to control is wealth. And why characters would buy magic items if they can have them at no cost for half price ?

We need to keep a real costing resource, a resource that you can not get back by selling the crafted magic item. This can be XP as in D&D3.5, or the need to “destroy” others magic items to make a new one, the need to spend some “crafting” points that you earn a limited amount at each new level, anything that means a real cost for the crafter, more exactly for the player of the crafter.

I used to play magic-users that spend there spare time crafting magic items of all kinds, if crafting items is now just a question of time (I mean with Paizo system, I’m sure that my magic-users will earn 1 000 gp per day). I know that the gp cost of making a magic item became completely useless, it is just a matter of time.

Most players think that the XP removal is a good thing because no one like the sound of these two words together “XP cost”, it sounds like a punishment. But this removal is not a good thing, at all. Think twice.

I think I would better keep that real costing resource : XP than having no real costing resource at all for crafting magic items. I don't want to see my parties becoming just magic items crafters, "because it is safer than adventuring and as lucrative".