nevermind's page

grrtigger wrote:

David Fryer wrote:

Just remembered. Star Trek I, III, and V.

I is pretty cool. It's not the best, but it was the first, so it automatically gets bumped at least one letter grade.

When I watch it now, it actually feels more like an episode of TOS than any of the other movies. Now, whether a 2-hour episode of TOS is good or bad, I still think the plot and dialogue was more like the series than the later (better as movies) films.

Any Star Trek movie is a mental apocalypse, visuals, plot and acting to scar the mind for decades to com... then again I am to Star Trek, what anti-matter is to matter... we cannot exist in close proximity^^

Really terrible stuff, I feel ashamed of having seen and still enjoyed...

"Mission Impossible II" ( gotta like Tom Cruise in "Ninja" mode, even though it is.... TOM CRUISE *cough*)

"Batman IV" - The Joel Schumacher one.... crucify me, but it's the best of the initial series of four....

"Kull the Conqueror" - bad, worse, Kull ! Still I feel an evil glee watching this... this..... "omega movie" ?

"I am Legend" - bad throughout, but at least Will Smith gets taken out, messily even, so it cannot be thoroughly bad, right ?

"Tremors" - a wonderful series of very very cheesy horror movies. Best with a bottle of spirits and a huge sideorder of Nachos !

Another few reason

- Have a strom front loom off-shore, forecasting a severe blow of the next few days, which any mariner worth his salt would want to weather ina safe cove rather than off-shore in a flimsy pre-renaissance carrack or caravel. Or do the reverse, have them seriously becalmed just off-shore of the cove for a number of days, making them haul the ships to shore simply for the reliefprovided by the shore-side shadow....

- Fresh provisions, going ashore to hunt some local wildlife and collect forage should be uppermost in everybody's mind - ship provisions tend to get rather bland and boring after a week or two, and fresh supplies will be a welcome change.

- as for "stores" - no captain or mariner would set out on a deep-water journey of unknown length without an ample supply of fresh water as a safety. As pointed out, noone knows what might happen to the PCs. This is simply common sense, and simply because the characters have the ability to overcome the problem, it does not mean everyone actually might rely on it.

- speaking for our own campaign, we had 30 people aboard the ship, and since we took the tropical heat into account, we actually went wih 1.5 - 2 gallons/crew each day, to account for excessive heat (our GM really ramped up the temperatures, causing some considerable problems for the fighter types baking in their armour )

as for forcing them into an encounter - the art of GMing is not to have them actually realize they are being forced to do something. Heroic roleplaying (aka DnD) thrives of conflicts and dangerous situations to be overcome with the full knowledge of the danger looming. And the only way the players would actually know of the danger is by having read the plotline^^

PC: Pyrix, Wizard (ex-cohort) 6, paragnostic apostle 4, SeaMage* 2 (class from dragonlance setting )
Adventure: "The Lightless Depths"
Location of Glory: Gallivant Cove
Summary: so you wannabe a tuff turtle, ?

After sailing to Gallivant Cove the group was pretty much split over what to do about Emrak's strong-arming tactics, and actually handed over Lavinia's treasure, because "we are not going to fight that island sized thingie".... cowards all !

The sun-elf mage was pretty miffed about this, and after finishing business down in Golismorga and teleporting everyone else back to Farshore returned to the "Serenity" (ex-Sea Wyvern ) still anchored in Gallivant Cove. Some triangulation on Emrak using Circle Dance ensued, a position for his probable lair was calculated and preparations for the following day were made.

The lonely wizard then flew out (the ship being still anhcored inshore) to the general region of the lair (invisible thanks to the ring from Zozilla ), casts Heart of Water, False Life and Resist Energy on herself and proceeds to attract Ol'Emrak with a bad rendition (via Ghost Sound ) of the Olmani Digeridoo. Eardrums were violated, but the turle noticed the lure of doom.

majestically, Emrak surfaced, pretty angry at the interuption of whatever he was doing down in the depths and gets challenged by a (major Image) Ghaele floating above, demanding his immediate withdrawal from the area "or else", since he had outstayed his welcome by the Olmani gods...
Sligtly megalomanicly inclined Emrak refused and snorts a steamcloud at the illusionary Ghaele (which was outside range of his scent-ability)... hostilities commenced !
In return, he gets struck by a double (split Ray feat) Enervation, handily maximized via Sudden Maximize. Before he even gets to act again, he gets hit with a ray of dizziness, and with its tiny brain working furiously smartly attempts to dive away, calling for his ally, a subjugated Kraken (which started swimming up from his lair ).

The wizard follows him underwater (flight plus heart of water = no problem) and hits him with another double Enervation for five more negative levels... Emrak, by now really angry and a bit lame in the flipper, turns, snorts a steam cloud and.... has the damage absorbed by Flase Life and Resist Energy (30 points vs. fire) eben though poor Pyrix has no chance to actually make the high DC save. In return though he gets hit by yet another Enervation, taking him to 17 negative levels... A terrible suspicion is creeping up on him as his life drains away. But wait - now his trusty Kraken surges up, forcing the perky elf to turn invisible (ring) and to dive off sideways, becoming rather hard to spot in the murky depths but the immediate threat seems to be gone... if only he can reach is cavernous lair ! Determinedly Emrak weakly paddles towards his lair (facing a 3 turn reload of his steamy breath ) while his pet puts down a covering inky cloud and covers the retreat... Two rounds pass as Emrak paddles towards the beckoning safety of his lair at a slovenly 30'/round.... while Pyrix moved into firing position once again, and then, with a "smoky confinement" spell (melee touch for delivery)at the ready dove in invisibly and sucked the enraged Emrak into a bottle-sized prison (hard to save vs a DC 25 Fort spell if you have a -17 modifier to your roll... even if you are one monstrous turle ).
The last thing he hears is a soft chuckle - after all, she had given her solemn promise not to hurt the "poor-dragon-turtle" (the keyword here being "turtle" since at least one co-player is extra-ordinarily fond of these )...

Inevitably the Kraken pounced the now visible wizard with its long reach tentacle right away and while he pulled her into a grapple, she escaped immediately via Dimension Hop, sped off, turned invisible once more, and pumped her remaining other 4 Enervations into the poor maritime nasty with "cast-and-flit-away" tactics helped by another timely Ray of Dizziness and her pearls of power. The Kraken was eventually turned (with a -13 modifier to its Fort Save of DC 24) into a salt statue with a timely "Flesh to Salt", and left to "melt" at the bottom of the Bay.After two minutes, everything was very silent in the depths of Galivant Bay again....

Final Score
Wizard vs. Turtle 2:0

Not a single point of damage was actually dealt to either of the two high CR monsters (CR 12 fo the Kraken and CR 15+ for Emrak) - the WWF would certainly approve the lack or premeditated cruelty.

Of course, envious groans, lame comments and rather verbose lamentations by the other players accompanied a feisty grin on part of the wizard's player. The lamentations stopped though, when the turtle's treasure was divided up, and solemn oaths were sworn (ingame and outgame) that the turtle would not be killed (outright).....

Using him as an advance "drop-troop" over Scuttlecove (which we are bound to sail too, as our GM alludes ) is still an option... calculations as for the impact damage done by a gargantuan sized Dragon Turtle dropped into the anchorage of the piraty hive of Scum and villainy from 6000'+ up are just too attractive^^

Amella (huh ? she was Amelia to us...) stayed one of the blander NPCs, mostly due to the fact that we actually had competent characters to captain the ship on our own, and only used her as a backup "master".
So the blame was ours to bear (and our GM actually was quite deft in setting up a hopeless situation with the reefs so we couldn't really protest too much about bing driven onto the rocks )....

Throughout the rest of the STAP (up to Tides) she was kept mostly in the backrow to baby-sit NPCs like Tavey and Avner.

She is no "out of game" since she is crewing a captured ex-pirate carrack which serves as a supply-ship for Farshore.
Basically one of the least impressive minor sidekicks so far - but pretty interesting how group dynamics push different characters to the fore in different campaigns.

well, both versions have occured in camapigns I played in or GMed.

As mentioned in another thread, our warblade in STAP got severly interested in Lavinia due to her "damsel-in-distress" situation, which appealed to his sensibilities and noble attitude. Things were slow to develop, and suddenly got complicated when the GM dropped in an old "love interest" of the character as a cohort.
This really challenged the character, and ultimately one of the NPCs went into suggestive seduction mode, and the player character got forced to make "resistance" checks to maintain his calm - which he proceeded to fail gloriously with actual natural "1"s. A moment of weakness, if you like. Things might have ended there, but the player decided to have his character react thoroughly to the changed situation.

Roleplaying-wise things got more interesting that way, even though the actual impetus resulted from him being forced to roll a die. The player was cussing at times and really going through some difficult moments about the whole issue, but ultimately it added depth and texture to the PC and NPCs involved. It became one of the more memorable sub-plots of the AP.
And everyone else had some good-natured laughs at his expense....

So, was it forced and hence despicable ? Yes, but it was mature player, and the only thing "forced" on him was complication, not an entire facet of his mind. He took it forward from the initial scene, and in the end everyone profitted, much as in many, less "emotionally-complex" scenes and non-combat challenges to a character. And I find it inherently wrong and lazy on part of the GM to have all interaction and complications originate exclusively from the PCs

I don't really consider "Holy Storm" all that broken, at least not with things like "Bolt of Glory" around. To my mind, it is too slow, and too limited in damage unless combined with, say the "Bane Magic" feat keyed to Outsiders.

As for the "Spell Compendium" dread *yawn*, people do actually realize that most of those spells are from the splat books they use anyway (just fine-tuned to reflect their actual power and balance ) , right ? In my book, what is fair for the villains is fair for the players. And having had the less than fun experience of running into the baboon mob done according to the totally broken rules in DMG II for "mobs", I don't really consider the balance of power too much in favour of the players in the STAP.
Besides the wacky "advanced beasts" with nigh-impossible to beat saves, or the rumour of a monster with DC 34 will-save on an "at will" power somewhere in the later parts of the STAP...

hmm, I would sincerly recommend swapping stuff and changing things throughout the adventure, taking away his unfair advantage. Which I have been doing for years anyway, in order to tailor adventures more to my tastes and the groups capabilities - but it has proven highly effective as a deterrent for those players employing "advanced intelligence" besides.
I had this problem in another group I GMed the SCAP for, where I had been doing minor reconfigurations of the first few adventures ( and added a few sidetreks of my own, in which two players' "skill" in reacting to encounters suddenly dropped to a bare shadow of their previous abilities ), but changed "Test of the Smoking Eye" thoroughly, because the orginal versions didn't cut it for me.
Said player died thrice (!) , always in situations where going by the original script a recognisable scene seemed to take place, which actually wasn't the case (and he could have told, if he had looked carefully ) ... the player actually suicided himself by going for "glory points" in each and every one of these scenes, by taking courses of action which would have worked splendidly in the original installment.

At his third death one of our mates spoke up, and reprimanded him for "acting as if he knew what was about to happen, because it sucked having to compensate for his foolishness". It was obvious to all what was actually being said, and an embarassed silence ensued.
The peer-pressure really worked out wonderfully though - while I guess, having confronted him about it face to face would not have worked, since who would admit to cheating unless confronted by incontrovertible proof ? The only thing that it would have done, is having sent him into a defensive, destructive mode of denial and resentment at having been caught and "called" on it. Spoiling the fun for everyone.

Just my 2 cents

And yes, I am a player in the STAP, but while I have the mags, and of course having been unable not to wonder about some of the cover artwork (like the gargantuan croc ) , I have tried hard to let that metagame knowledge not affect ingame decisions. My character certainly bears the scars of having run flat into some stuff I would have avoided if I had known about it. Like the "mirror of opposition" effect in the demon-temple on the Isle.... Now that wasn't fun for anyone except our GM !

Good tips, guys! One character is a Vow of Poverty Druid, so protect the weak (or annoying) is a very viable tactic!

Having played through that part of the camapign with a pretty powerful (at that time) group of five, plus two capable cohorts, and still having had our collective behinds (almost) handed to us once or twice I can only add the following as a commentary from a player's perspective

The ooze is vile, and very, very dangerous to a party which does not immediately identify it, or knows about tactics against it. If you are miserly on the information, and perhaps ambiguous about what the characters actually see (our GM nastily only mentioned some drifting flotsam bumping into the ship's side, which made the semi-aquatic character jump straight overboard to investigate.... ), things will be pretty deadly/challenging.

The same goes for the Hydra - which struck when we were busy hauling barrels to the waterfall and shuttling them back and forth from ship to coast. Everybody was split up, the mage of course did not have his scroll collection at hand, and we had a very hard time to even gather the group for concentrated action. If you add badly glimpsed attacks to this (say, have a head attack a small craft from below, knocking it over or dragging it under, without people even seeing what dragged them into the water....), things will get nasty.

In general, do not usually mention what monster people are fcing by its precise name, but have them make knowledge skill rolls (and then hand a slip of paer to the relevant player/s) to even have an accurate idea of what they are facing. The less they know, the more of a tactical advantage you have... say if you play the hydra in a shark-like fashion (striking from underneath the surface ), chances are your players will take quite a while to realize what they are actually battling, and perhaps make less educated decisions.

Encounters we found far too easy were the pirates (we almost were in tears from laughing at their dozen of men challenging our two dozen crew, colonists plus battle-seasoned characters.... ), the sargasso-men and the bunch of aquatic gargoyle's on the way to Renku Island. Beef those up, if you want these scenes to be more than comedic interludes.

No idea how the social scenes on Renkru Island actually "tick", but we had the nasty feeling, that if we made a socially inept step, we would be facing a few dozen angry cannibals/natives (we never found out where that priest had disappeared to, but we had our suspicions ), espcially if they don't keep Avner on a tight leash (we certainly did ).

The masher-eel encounter close to the final scenes was nasty, but more due to the fact that we explained to the GM just how severly such a storm would affect the ship and any movement aboard (imagine fighting on a twisting rollercoaster, in rain, without safety belts...), with wet, slippery and constantly rolling decks, water bursting into the hold occupying some of our characters and the general situation demandig at least one hand to be used for grabbing onto something (making shields and/or two weapon combat impossible, not to mention two-hand weaponry ) . I have to plead quilty on this, being a bit obsessed about ships, storms and generally things nautical, and I got constant kicks from my co-players for pointing out just how hard things would be....

hmm they were incestuous ? Or at least from his side ?

Never would have guessed, but it certainly explains his grandstanding in the final moments of ToD.

Not sure I wanted to know about him turning up later, especially after having thoroughly disintegrated his remains.

PC: Sha'rell, fey'ri Beguiler 8th (don't ask)
Adventure: ToD - final battle
Location of Glory: the blooddrenched quays of Farshore
Summary: "blinded by the Light".....

After having had everything and the kitchen sink thrown at us at once (which really stretched our resources ), two characters not dying only by timely "close wounds" and "delay death" from an NPC cleric, spell slots clicking emptily, big "Vanthus Vanderbooren, Evil Mastermind at large" swoops from the skies and challenges his sister (cutscene, so he got to deliver his speech before we got to act...).
Lavinia stands defiant, if not half as eloquent, when in front of Vanthus the fey'ri Beguiler swoops from above, casting "Color Spray" at him (basically the only thing left to her after 20 rounds of non-stop combat...).
Our GM grinned and mockingly quibbed "is that all you've got ?", then glanced at V's stat block and looks pale (obviously Vanthus wasn't up to par with regard to his Will save ).
A second later, and among GM'ly curses, Vanthus drops from the sky, quite stunned, impacting on the rocks just off the waterline after falling 60' and loosing his armament in the process..... The "Enervation" hitting him next thing only made the GM curse some more ( I guess the -4 to all saves and actions didn't really help the will-save ), and from then to Vanthus' end two rounds later, the poor guy stayed quite stunned, lolling in the shallow water while our barbarian/bard ripped him to shreds with her greatspear.

Unfortunately, he still got to trigger his shadow pearl in another cutscene, but our much-abused beguiler, who had suffered silently from "target-is-immune-syndrome" ever since SWW, finally had her moment in the spotlight - especially after the GM afterwards confessed that Vanthus was a CR 14 BBEG (*ouch*)

oh, and we still got rid of the "ticking" shadow pearl before it blasted away Farshore, since the wizard got exceedingly lucky on her dispel check (natural "20" on the only dispel left ). She was by then down to 4 HP from the acidic fumes though, and we have no ideas what would have happened if that orb had exploded.... lucky her !

we had the romance (tri-)angle going for a while, with our bard/warblade (who had a irrepressible streak of chivalry ) romancing Lavinia, basically acting as her man-on-site in many situations and being unflappably in her camp, even when it was to the party's detriment (he being the only good character around throughtout the first installments ).
Very courtly, strong and supportive... "old school". And it provided strong motivation to stick to Lavinias side throughout the first two adventures, which wasn't a bad thing with our morally flexible group.
Things started to take-off slowly when they were invited to a ball Sasserine's Lord Mayor was having (prior to SWW'S embarkation ), but things never developed farther than hand-holding and a kiss or two, since the GM had the wizard cohort fall for him mightily, and witout much qualms.
Poor sod fell hard (she was an old flame of his from a decade ago, and obviously things reignited massively ), and Lavinia picked the short straw. There were a few fun social scenes at Tamoachan and Renkru Island, with the character trying to maintain a working relationship with Lavinia, while being madly in love (or lust at least) with the cohort....
After the group and cohorts arrived at Farshore in the aftermath o the shipwreck, things resolved themselves and have since calmed down

Lavinia has since turned into a bit of an ice-queen, even after the warblade retired from the campaign but a loyal friendship with the group persists (if not with the wizard cohort who also has a bit of a short fuse ) .

Overall it was a fun thing while it lasted, but having wrapped up ToD just last session, the future is bright and shiny ahead.

We had some minor "affairs", with the female Beguiler seducing ( no idea about the degre of success ) the Lord Mayor of Sasserine, and some onboard hormonally charged flings involving Lirith.

Oh, and our werebaboon ranger may possibly be in love with his Gorilla animal companion. Don't ask for details, since we don't either ....

count my vote as yours. Without even resorting to exotic settings, strange McGuffins or high-level extravagancas this is still the most innovative, mind-warping and imagination-catching entry in the entire Superstar contest....

This is - frankly speaking - on a level with some of the best stuff paizo has thrown at us for the last few years (and beats most of the weaker stuff, and there has been some of that, with both hands tied on its back ) , and my only wish for this would be to give it more space than a mere 32 pages to run amok in !

*wicked grin*
*sneaks off to paint an army of dwarvin valkyries*

well, the "undead" type renders a monster immune to all necromantic effects except those specifically described as doing so from the sage's FAQ, but I am a bit lost for the precise issue ). Besides ability penalty being simply a weaker (non-stacking, capped by the limit of a minum of 1 in an ability score and a shorter duration to boot ) variant of true ability damage.

Incidentally, this would lead to the low-level necromantic rays (enfeeblement, clumsiness and stupidity ) becoming even better than they already are, since it would turn them into almost the only magical debuffs capable of affecting undead.

Just saying

as an aside, pretty bad massacre, although I have the nagging feeling the players helped quite a bit through being not very prepared (like bringing some oil, fighting with a narrow front etc. ). And, well, having no 'tank'

PC: Pyrix, Sunelf wizard/paragnostic Apostle 6/1 (Cohort)
Adventure: Tides of Dread
Location of Glory: Tar Pits
Summary: Headache vs T-Tex

With the first round of combat going very much against the group - Warblade and ranger receiving massive hits and dealing out virtually no damage as well as the ranger ending up in the jaws of the T-rex, the bard bolstering up, the beguiler failing to slow and the rogue running for cover/sniping position - a TPK or at the least an ignominous flight looked likely.

Then the mage fired off a "mindfrost" (by virtue of the "Alacritious Cogitation" Feat from complete Mage ) and rolls for damage.
The fights ends instantly , when a measly 7 points of cold damage, but 4 points of intelligence damage (max damage) are dealt (and our GM fails to save with a natural "1") turning the T-Rex into so many tons of predator with a frozen peach-sized brain, Int of "0". Everybody slowly starts to breath again.

The group still needed three more rounds to bring the Int 0 T-Rex to its knees.... and that was without it actually fighting back :(

Oh, and some ungrateful souls complained about having been saved by a cohort....

yeah... he probably does. Enjoy !

In fact, I think seeing this got me started on the deckplans -- which has probably burned up waaaay too much of my time :)

definitely NOT too much time - I for one am deeply thankful, and IF we capture another ship within the course of the campaign (as a faithful purchase of Dungeon I am well aware of the fact that we will in all liklihood be sailing some more places later in our campaign - even if I skirt around the actual issues as long as we haven't played them ), I will try to "press" that layout into use, instead of the "Sea Wyvern" map.

Good idea about the foamboard - might try that myself, since I am the miniature buff hereabouts

as for the "navigation deck" - that is a feature of the hanseatic cogs as well, providing some shelter in adverse weather. IIRC, they mounted the tiller close to the beams above, conserving headspace that way.

As for the master's cabin - a very true issue (we actually had that mishap in the campaign, with the stern windows stove in by swell and the chroniclers precious notes swept into oblivion ), but it can be countered by battening down the rear windows with wooden shields in stormy conditions.

A last detail if you should be updating the maps - try to precisely locate the pumps's position on deck, that might become a very relevant detail (it was for us ) on Masher's Reef

Teleport isn't that great, however, as there aren't any cities in 1-hop range, and its unlikely the PCs have been to the areas in between before. What they need is Greater Teleport. But that's impossible at that level... unless you have planar binding.

HTbM Spoilers:** spoiler omitted **

well Renkrue island and the ruins of Tamoachan come to mind as "stopovers". IF the characters visited them, and the GM can be persuaded as to the degree of accurate memory.

There used to be a thread about travel back and forth on this forum in summer - including some thoughts on Shadow Walk, Wind Walk and some borderline-demented transport via air-elemental express or dragon ( I think the poster boosted the dragon to three times the usual airspeed through buffs and ruls options ). "Express Dragon Mail" took about 2-3 days and was possible at level 12 for a small sized character, IIRC.

I echo Pygon's points above.

Access to the "teleport" spell would only provide access to a city (aka Sasserine ) if some previous planning has occured, since the straight-line distance "Sasserine - Farshore" is way in access of 1200 miles on my map. At 100miles/level maximum range, that would put off teleporting home for at until at least level 13.

Or teleporting into half-remembered places the group visited on the trip south to the Isle and risk mishaps from erroneous memories. "Seen once" or "seen casually" should be the appropriate categories for use of the teleport table - hence a 11% or 24% chance of arriving "off-target"

This would be one of the reason why our mage is doing careful drawings of all the quaint locations the characters visited, to jog later recollection. I am pretty strict about "teleporting" to places only passed through once or twice, and so is every GM I know. YMMV.

no idea frankly, but I gues cityscape might have information about prices of housing based on district and social strata (call it an eductaed guess, am away from the books atm )

But, allow me the question, WHY would you want to puchase a house in Sasserine ?

Tatterdemalion wrote:

...The rudder itself is overhead in the captain's cabin...

I meant tiller. It's a beam about eight feet in length giving a relatively large lever arm to aid in moving the rudder; additional mechanical advantage is gained with the block & tackle setup.

The rudder, of course, is outside the ship -- partly within the semicircular notch at the stern (main & cargo decks).

That part of the construction is basically the only thing that I would consider... un-nautical.

....but that is absolutely a minor quibble. Not to mention that in worlds with possibly magical wood and trees (too many "Locke Lamora" books of late ) structural problems might just be not that much of a problem as in our world.

As for the "seat of ease", the hanseatic cogs - featuring an aft-castel/superstructure actually extending out and over the aft hull-sides, featured a partitioned-off "gallery" with a seating arrangement not unlike that of a medieval castle. While I haven't seen the problem adressed in non-fiction literature, it is featured on bothe historic rebuilds of hanseatic cogs I have been on.
that unnamed chamber on the starboard part of the navigation deck may just serve fine for something like that.

Sea Wyvern deckplans

BTW updated some detail and added labels.

Incredibly nice - too bad our poor "Sea Wyvern" already

Consider your deckplans "stolen" as a definite compliment to your skill and nautical understanding !
And, recommendation to the Paizo Staff : Please, hire Tatterdemalion as a freelancer the next time you need a realistic map of a ship. As far as I can tell, this carrack might actually have sailed and worked properly.

Realizing that our group would be stuck on an Isle deep within the southern ocean for quite some while we got us a cohort wizard through the leadership feat (we were lacking in the arcane department anyway - and the GM let us do the groundwork for it, sicne the characters weren't quite up to level 6 yet. ) who was going to (actually is by now) taking the item creation feats, mostly "wondrous Items" and "arms and armour".
Since we play with a variant rule allowing the xp cost of item to come from another willing being (usually the character the item gets made for ) this has provided us with some means for getting custom made stuff in Farshore without the wizard going bonkers hemoragging XP.
And yes, we invested quite a bit of money in that wizard's spellbook, so we had a good selection of spells required for item creation later on.

We also debated taking out a loan, with the Sea Wyvern as a security (it is worth app. 10k after all ), but ultimately decided against it. This might provide players with a sizable account of cash to buy stuff with early on. Same goes for a loan from one of the merchant houses or the associations.

Then again, we rarely deal with "magic shops" ingame, since they truly hurt the "suspension of disbelief", handling it through a different system of acquisition.

But IMHO, having to "deal" with the stuff at hand - rather than the stuff one would tactically buy from "magics-R-us" - is one of the joys of the game. YMMV

well, to push this thread to epic proportion, let me just add some observations.

First off, I never the AoW AP , - your mileage may/will vary. Its setup and and adventure ideas (especially th excessive tomb-crawling) were never to my taste. Never felt tempted to GM it, even less to have played in it. Wouln't even recommend it to another GM. So I find it sort of entertaining taht somone actually considers it a pinnacle fof fine D&D adventure. Sure has me smiling in bemusement.

The SCAP on the other hand I loved - dungeons and rather rail-roading parts (like "Test of the Smoking Eye") as much as "free-and-roaming-wild" stuff like the red dragon's attack on Cauldron.
While we never finished it, It wasn't because the adventures weren't enjoyable and nicely unconventional at times.

I am currently playing in the STAP (far enough ahead that this thread contained more or less no spoilers ), and, from my PoV as a player with an enthusiatstc, if not overly gifted GM (sorry if you are reading this ).
None of the snags and "awkward moments" Haldegast'S guys seemed to experience has occured to us. Neither did we feel railroaded throughout the SWW - there is hardly another route to pick, and our GM made up some pretty pressing reason to visit most of the pre-set "encounter areas" (he wasn't very skillful at hiding their pre-made nature once we were heavily involved in them ). We always debated avoiding them, but curiosity, sense of duty or sheer bloodymindedness always won out.

Plus, we do take the (unwritten) duty of players serious, which is to CONTRIBUTE to a good story, by creating athmosphere, having our characters act without meta-gaming knowledge and actually setting and controlling the pace, not waiting with baited breath that the GM throws "something" at us to react to. And taking "unfair" developments in stride - you don't complain in RL about fate or other people outsmarting you, right ? Because - the characters don't know there is something like a "script"..

I also agree that, the Isle of Dread is one huge "outside dungeon" - it always was, even in the 80ies original version. If H's mind just cannot adapt to the concept of a "dungeon" without stonewalls --> his loss.

But complaining that it doesn't have elaborate passages, mazes and pre-written ruin complexes to stalk SWAT-like through (the fun of which frankly eludes me, but tastes may differ ), because one's mind is just unable to handle a non-standard arranegement is sort of like beating up the playwright, because one is too... well, "cognitivly challenged" to understand a play ? Strikes me as a dumb way of shifting blame....
HIS GM picked the STAP to play with the group, he is running it (and shoddily, by the sounds of it, too), and now PAIZO is to blame because they don't enjoy it ? Just how did Paizo and nefarious JJ force them to play it ? And who told them that Paizo was conceiving the STAP so that tehy would be happy (everybody else be scrXXXXed ) ?

From where I stand, I can only conclude, that H's GM obviously is a) uninterested in adding to the depth of the STAP to slake his players' hunger, and rather spurious and ill-prepared when it comes to explain unexpeted turns (like the lack of weapons... strangely enough, THAT didn't occur for us.
And B) his group has a markedly different style and expectations from almost any group of adult players I know. that is certainly their privilege, but I somehow think Paizo is doing something right, when the vast majority of players like stuff written this way.

nice map - although it looks a bit "too massive", with too little coastline and oceans (for now).
Might just lead to interesting weather patterns (like central Asia).

Same goes for "the players start in the west".... lets see if the BBEG live in the North and East - like in far too many settings... *yawn*

Question about the Gazeteer though - will it list some areas which are "free for development" by individual GMs (like the locations in Pathfinder #1 and #2 ?) ? ALso, will it list areas that are basically uninhabited wastes (so we don't have realms popping up out of nowhere in previously blank/deserted spots on the map

All that nagging being done - keep up the good work !

WTF are that STONE GIANT NINJAS in the background artwork ?

oh,the possibilities....... *chuckle*

I have been playing in Anthony's group for approximately 18 years so I have an insight into his Dm style the Exalted Monk character is a new addition to our game night so with that in mind.

I'll be playing this AP utilising a Psychic Warrior (Expanded Psionics Handbook, which causes another set of problems for the DM, mainly Psionic creatures!!) alongside the aforementioned Exalted Monk.

While I think that you really shouldn't be on this thread ( given that there are likely to be some spoilers here )... well neither should I, but I would like to chime in from a STAP-player's position.

I am currently playing in the STAP, and my character was initially based around the "exalted" feat "Kiss of the Nymph" ( basically a matter of background detail, though of course, it is a nice feat - mea culpa ). Our GM okayed it, with the condition that it might have to be replaced IF interaction with the group suffered.
He also warned me that it might be a problematic choice later in the STAP (and mind, "Kiss of the Nymph" is far easier to uphold than say one of the exalted "Vows" ).
And, last but not least, our group goes in for some mutual heavy roleplaying and NPC interaction above and beyond the usual plot
elements.

Well, in actual play, the "exalted" feat proved to be very limiting and problematic with the activities and measures requied throughout the STAP first four installments, to say the least - and I only had to be noble and "fair" in according to the tenets of the Light Fey court. A "vow" goes much farther and requires even more dedication to "pure good" than "kiss of the Nymph" (YMMV).
It took the fun out of a lot of things, and it certainly cramped the other players' style, so in effect I agreed with the GM to switch it for another feat, reducing the roleplaying aspect to a matter of upbringing and expectations after the first two chapters.

I can only recommend not taking it, _especially_ if one is an active participant in the role-playing scens. And that is only for the first installments - from what I do glean above, I am pretty sure, its gets more and more bothersome later in the STAP.

Simply make the "Book of Exalted Deeds" off-limits for the purposes of the STAP. It is your game, don't let it be taken out of yourhands by your players. And it DOES impact on the fun of this Adventure path - which siimpy does not seem all that accomodating to goody-goodshoes characters.

So I don't know if anyone else recently had this happen, though I remember there was another thread about it. My pcs don't trust Lavinia at all so far and are sure she has to be in the know on the contents of the ship. It's going to be interesting...left off where the pcs were consulting about what to do having dealt with the ship.

It occured to me listening to the in character conversation that it is almost inevitable that there might be suspicion. Have others dealt with that, and was it resolved by her talking further of her circumstances following the retrieval of the ring?

yeah, we did (actually the GM preempted any suspicions on our part ) - Gather information rolls about the "Nixie" resulted in us hearing about strange "loading and unloading" at nighttime, and some speculation about the ship being used as a "smuggler's drop/warehouse" by someone not of the Vanderboren's family.

Alternatively, let them find a list aboard (or on the main goon) naming "Vanderboren employees" like the Jade Ravens, Cora etc not to be let aboard "under any circumstances"... should be a nice hint that Lavinia is not involved either.

Then again for us it certainly helped, that the warblade developed an immediate crush on Lavinia, and really started to become protective about her reputation etc...

You can work on the former, but not on the later

seconded... *smurf* ?

vikingson wrote:

The crew having names and identifying trademarks really meant that the players flinched at every crewmember lost, because these guys had become "faces"... pulled out by me (as the GM) every now and then with a trademark reply or scene, then fading in the background again.

I named the crew and Avner's two attendants. It does make a difference. Players in my game take the time to mention npcs by name even taking time to talk to such npcs.

Absolutely makes a differnece. Actually our group did it themselves,. because it seemed (and proved to be) so much more fun to breath some life into the guys (and gals). Also made us far more motivated to protect them in the Hydra fight (although we lost two rowers there ) and later during the shipwreck itself.

Of course, recommended only if you are in for the roleplaying not the hacking =)

Just make the art available as posters or prints through the normal shop - no need for a calendar 'per se'. Makes publishing them so much easier - it could even be done in installments.

And yes, the WAR covers for the first AP are really awesome (especially number #3 !) but I wouldn't need all of them, just one or two. Only so much wall space, you know ?

As for the interior art..... ahem, that of "the Skinsaw Murders" was appropriately freaky (and only appropriate in that particularcontext ) , but I definitely wouldn't spend a single cent, if a piece of that appeared in a calendar.... and me having to stare at it for full month.

'nuff said

damnation,we were far too nice to her.....

First time around - after capturing her via suggestion - we let her go (!), handing her over to her parents in order not to incur her clan's wrath. Heavy pressure by Lavinia (aka GM ) was involved, since we originally had planned to hand her over to Sasserine's judicial system.

Next time around, after a rather incompetent poisonning attempt of the crew's porridge aboard the "Wyvern" (the ever-hungry halfling noted an odd smell about the concotion, leading to a ship wide search ), she jumped overboard in an attempt to escape/suicide, and was actually rescued from drowning by us..... an impromptu ship-board court was sabotaged by the GM through the NPC bard, who acted as the devil's advocat (gotta get rid of her, too, one of these days ) and basically made everyone agree to a plead-guilty verdict.
We then marooned her of the coast of Chult, with a single cutlass and a week's supply of water.

Guess we are going to see her again *sigh*

I would view that as the price of extreme moral flexibility (the spoiler as well as the vile damage)...

An extreme complication though (especially the met shield question) , price or no price.

Most players want the cool powers, but none wants to truly roleplay evil, e.g. social ostracism in polite society, doing truly unspeakable things, being shunned, and lo' and behold, "good" groups gunning for you, trying to foil your plots.

oh well...

hmm, hit me the second I read his name and title.....

there may just be the added problem that evil/neutral parties usually face enormous problems getting rid of "vile" damage.... which I somehow see the servants of Demogorogon etc. inflicting.

And that might really complicate the finale of the campaign.

well, although "free stuff" is nice and usually welcome - if PAIZO has time on their hands, I somehow would like it better if they used i to kep the creative juices flowing that gave us Sandpoint etc. rather than add Web Enhancements.
I can never seem to shrug the feeling with many companies that the WEs actually are the content that did not get ready on shedule or didn't make the cut (of whatever).

just my 2 cents

Character : Da Pimp

...
Catalyst : Misunderstanding the protective benefits of the token going into a room with a thousand Destruction DC 20 traps

Somehow I cannot shrug the feeling of an excessively cruel overkill..... a DC 20 Save or die (very permanently !) trap for 4th level characters ? OUCH !

Well, ToD IS a welcome change of tack from the (at times excessive) railroading of SWW. Fun as some of the instances in that were, it really felt like a daisy chain of encounters one could not avoid, whatever the preparations one made... and we really prepared hard and well for some of them, and still stuff happened

Different thing with ToD (ot about the savioury flavour though )

.....

He was credited with being the only gnome who's breath could repel swarms and slay cockroaches around here, may his (tiny) bones rest easily in Golismorga.
.................

ouch.... that rings so true, urol being only "the master of the creeping beard" with us yet, but obviously only the GM's sense of the grotesque is the limit for him. Strange fungi have been sighted living in his whiskers, and the elven cohort claims that diminiutive monkeys can be seen living in the deeper reaches of the facial fur. He also claims to be allergic to seawater and therefore even the Hula-girls of Renku island refused to garland him with a flowery necklace.

Since he has the the "danger sense" of an addled mine-sniffing dog, I don't expect him to be around much longer though , since we are approaching the "Isle" ( he chickened out on us with the Sargasso, which looked like a fine opportunity to commit suicide ).... and the arcane trickster has already "dozed" him once and put inside a sacrophagus (in Tamoachan) which he then closed to get rid of him.

Unfortunately, we are overall too honourable overall to follow through on that... =( But he is less popular even that Avner - which is quite an achievment, and bodes ill for his future.

"Kommt Zeit kommt Rat, kommt Attentat !", as the German saying goes

Oh, and I love this diary, since you guys are (in this publication) just about three sessions behind our group... Don't play too swiftly , or this will become too "spoilery" to read.

Problem with the low level standby spells at higher levels is that even those with nominally "weak" Save modifiers have by level 12 racked up save modifiers of app. +10 or better... before helpful buffs (my own warblade, level 7 has atm, through feats picked and only one multiclassing saves of F+8, Rf+11 and W+8, with a 32 point buy as teh base.... now, at level 12 they will be much higher..) - which means saves against Slow etc will only be failed like one third of the time under the best of circumstance.

That is, unless the villain isn't upped by some absurd stats (like the 34 charisma on the Death Knight St. Kargoth in Dungeon #150 - just to up his HP by some hundreds.... jeeez, that is just so.. <no comment> no use for the stat in his former existence, and no real reason why he should have it in undeath... but he needed some extra toughness so someone picked up the barel of parmesan ).
As a result,the villain will have to resort to save-less magics or even better resort to terrain modifications like walls, environmental changes ( fogs of all kinds come to mind) or other effects that affect the characters independetly of a roll under the players' control.

beyond that, I subscribe to the theory that a villain should by all means not react to the characters' actions , but make THEM react to his, seizing and keeping the iniative from the outset of the battle.
And ram it down their throats - after all, he/she/it did not become chief-menace-of-the-universe by being inefficent and easily beaten...

I think the black pudding only eats the characters weapons and armour except on a natural 1 on the reflex save. The armour if your PC got hit or grappled and the weapon is your PC struck the pudding.

belief is nice, but the MM-I states that "the pudding's acidic touch deals 21 points of acid damage per round to wooden and metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for one full round to deal this damage"

Now, anyone killed (and getting absorbed by the ooze) or even immersed because of being grappled in the ooze "is in full contact" with the ooze, hmmm ?
There is not even a reflex save allowed according to the text in the MM.

As for clothing and armour (and weaponry employed ) - would you in all honesty go and differentiate between gauntlets (articles of clothing) or a hat (another article of clothing ) or bracers (hmm, jewellery or armour or clothing ?) on one hand and a ring or bracelet or a headband on the other hand ?

Of course, this is D&D 3.5, where even the unconscious and fully paralyzed have reflex saves.... if one cares to suppress common sense and let arbitary rules replace reality, that is

Yes, anything on the grappled/struck target gets affected and needs to save. Although one might consider layering saves ( say armour needs to be destroyed before the amulet underneath it needs save, rings after covering gloves... )

That's precisely why that pudding is so freaking deadly to encounter - probable loss of a character ( if it happens to be a less than solid arcane caster.... 50+ HP isn't going to last all that long, especially, since the grapple is likely going to be a AoO, and if initiative is then lost.... one puddle of dissolved caster coming up ! ).

With the added problem of the poisonous athmosphere... .

Bit of personal experience - if the pudding happens to digest the arcane caster first, and you don't have some backup elemental firepower (druid or a cleric with some elemental magic loaded ), you are.... buggered sideways ?
Because even bludgeoning weapons (effective) will need to save on every strike... not to mention, the pudding's own attacks.

We lost two thirds of a party to a black pudding that the (hare-brained ?) GM had decided to enehance by advancement and a fiendish template... after the first split.... well the survivors were those that ran first. 'nuff said.

I have to agree - min-maxed characters are usually the first to fall and fail. Why ? Because their players for one consider themselves nigh invincible ( or at least on the cutting edge of the game). And hence do cocksure things without consideration that tend to backfire, in serious ways. Many can min-max ( IMHO a sign of insecurity ), especially if posting on the boards for advice, but that doesn't save your butt. Playing wisely and successfully is something else though. And to quote Qin-Gon "there isalways a bigger fish" aka a min-maxed NPC =)

@carborundum
Nice situation, although, IMHO you let them off with only a minor beating. Let's just hope they learn, or BWG might really be a death trap....

great.. moments.... (from a GMs perspective )

Player gets shot by a sniper while climbing onto the top of a barn (Siege situation, Sniper is hidden in some rocks hundreds of feet away, nighttime, but the player is in illuminated area). Looses 50% HP from first two arrows, jumps down ladder, swearing....
Waits two (2 !) rounds, then climbs up again, peering over the edge of the roof... Then climbs fully onto the roof again... shouts "he seems to be gone" ... and gets hit with another couple of arrows (same sniper), looses the other 50% of his HP and slides off the roof, killing him.

Player breaking up a peaceful protest and vigil by a religious sect (who are actually on their side and their supporteres, numbering around a hundred worshippers) in front of their house.... The sectrians want to see (!) and show their respects to the recently deceased body of their religious leader, one of the PCs (!), who had just been killed in a public duel.
One player mumbles "we don't need those guys right now".... Other player's character walks outside and breaks up the vigil with a set of fireballs right into their midst, with several dozen victims and a massive panic..... and looks really surprised that they a) resent that and b) that the town authorities come and arrest him for the massacre.... the campaign was practically finished after that

Ah, did I mention the players were on a mission that their employers had insisted required "great discretion and circumspect action" ? *sigh*
(if you wonder, these were/are veteran players in their late twenities, early thirties.... )

Oh, and there was the "clever player" who's bard/rogue waltzed into the famously paranoid and tyrannical king's court and introduced himself as "McSween, contract killer for hire and here to end Your foul reign !"... no kidding. He looked slightly askance at getting really beaten up and interrogated really quickly by really quite a lot of guards who clearly didn't have any sense of humour.

well, for one, congrats on Sandpoint, it is awesome. Detail, inspiring NPCs, Plot hooks, the works..... Now I only have to add an eighth day to the week so I have time to run that camapign as well.....

And a heartfelt "WTF ?" to the post about specific sexual orientations conflicting with being "good"-aligned

I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to view and judge a person as "good" or "evil" by their actions and motives for those, not their sexual orientation, if any....
In all honesty, would you have found it alright and "fitting" if said NPCs had been "evil" , would that have satisfied any deep-seated feelings and fears on the subject ? I sincerely hope you actually don't.

So,please either invest in some tolerance if you feel insulted by the adventure's NPCs yourself or some spine if you don't, but honestly fear what anybody else might be insulted about.

It's not only about 'Freedom of Speech', I think the term we are actually looking for is "Zivilcourage", but like "Angst " that is very hard to translate from German. It means "courage in the face of oppressive action"....

sorry for openly speaking my mind but it keeps me from smashing the keyboard, in a violent dstructive way... which I frown upon.

/back to the original sheduled program and the OP

Gotta say, I love those ears.

Truly madly and without reservation. Now, bring the hate, bring the napalm ! =)

Whatever you do, keep the duality aspect of the original Demo

To facciliate this, how about a "janus" approach - one roughly humanoid being, but with two faces/front aspects, both believeing themself to be the dominant half ? Make them contrast as much as you like, say, have one half be a self-mutilating flayed freakshow ?

Or something akin to a half-golem (MM-II ) or a metamorphosis interrupted- left side some insectily nightmare, right side some being of deadly, unforgiving beauty... and then have indiviual parts switch sides. Do this perhaps in random patterns like the insectile arm/limbs jutting from the humanoid shoulder or a perfectly shaped eye staring out at you from a praying mantis' head ... and everything placed differently on the next encounter/foreshadowing ?

Of course, there will always be the trusty "voluminous robe" standby... from out of which and underneath the brim too many tentacles poke out and swish about menacingly.... and let the shadows of the cowl be filled by whatever a player/character imagines and fears most (take a look at Heroes of Horror Phantasmal Slayer and its phantasmal facade ability for inspiration). Add some non-optical trademarks like a vile stench or buzzing sensation on the onlookers skin, or ven underneath the skin, lile insect-larvae burying through the flesh and you will have soemthing that will hopefully creep out the players even if they only dream of it. Nothing more unsettling than waking up with a taste or smell from your dream still lingering in the room....

Oh, and for descriptive text.... channeling Lovecraft never hurts. "Blasphemous" etc are wonderful adjectives

Definitely sounds like a bad idea. Given the expected opposition ( strong individual mobs as opposed to groups of small and weaker ones ) in the later parts, the elemental is only so much toast (e.g. an ablative shield ) , and lacking the "massive punch" spells like "Reverse Gravity", "Sphere of Destruction" or will weaken the character himself for little gain.

Plus, water elementals being pretty slow on land will tie the group down.

That said, there will of course be some utility value from the elemental and never let powermongering stand in the way of roleplaying.

But if said sorcerer is the main and/or sole arcane caster of the group, this may turn frustrating for the entire group.

Geysir's might fit the semi volcanic aspect pretty well - best placed underwater (in shaloow, caustic pools )

Leech Swarms.... yummy ! (Stormwrack)

Piranha Swarms... and thinking it over, perhaps check Libirs Mortis and make them undead piranha swarms ? Everhungry, everchurning chompin' munchin' bitin' turning !

Rotten Wood - treetrunks, catwalks, galleries, Support beams, you name it

Colonies of worker ants and termites trying to digest the unliving characters and everybody else's equipment if given the opportunity.

Dire Vultures...... With a swamp and apperantly abundant wildlife, there will be carcasses (and things trying to eat them or carry them off for undisturbed feeding )

Purple worms squirming through the muck at the bottom of the swamp (or the lowest level of a temple ). Why tunnel through rock if you tunnel through softer stuff ?

Have stuff grow on the characters ( Fungi ? Lichen ? some strange glowing moss ?), especially the ones composed of dead and rotting matter. Perhaps have some flies etc. lay eggs there too ?

And the two classic monsters for swampland settings :

Hydras and Froghemoths !

"Pushkin" and "Tolstoi" if you go down the literary road once more ?

"Hugin" and "Munin" ( Odin's Ravens ) ? ok, their colour schemes don't fit

"Chaos" and "Mayhem" .... if you feel prophetic ?

"Punch" and "Judy" ?

"this" and "that" (for redundancy...)

"Mi" an "Uh"... ok, too much "Rush Hour 3" I guess

some legalistic friends named theirs ( first on, then the other ) "hearsay" and "rumours".... perhaps "Chit" and "Chat" works in the same vein ?

The one my family had was named "Monster", which proved to be aptly fitting... Personally I would use that one again.