jacob friesel's page

All I can say from reading this last several posts is that I play a lot of deficient characters... I'm sure that will be cold comfort for my DMs.

i am a deficient charter....dose that count?

jacob friesel wrote:

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

so a breast plate is +3 ACP but the rules state....
"Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0)."
so it brakes even thus no penalty.

The armor check penalty on breastplate is -4 and costs 200 gp

The armor check penalty on masterwork breastplate is -3 and costs 350 gp
The armor check penalty on mithral breastplate (which is masterwork) is -1 and costs 4200 gp

See Elven Chain and Mithral Full Plate of Speed in the specific armors section for examples of completed stats on mithral armors.

What you need is a little combat trait known as 'Armor Expert' from the Character Trait free download, in order to get your Mithral Breastplate down to an armor check penalty of zero and therefore your non-proficient penalty down to zero.

oh DUH on me..i forgot , yeha im a 10th lvl character with 1 lvl fighter ,6 lvls of rogue and 3 lvl's or order of the bow.

Abraham spalding wrote:

Truthfully pathfinder feels more like 2nd edition to me than 3.5. I know it's an odd statement but that's where it lands for me.

I'm thrilled I'm not the only one to kinda get that feel with the game...

ditto..i played A LOT of 2nd ed and i must say this get back to how i used to feel about the game. PF if the first RPG that i have been EXCITED about in a very long time.

jacob friesel wrote:

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

so a breast plate is +3 ACP but the rules state....
"Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0)."
so it brakes even thus no penalty.

That would be correct if breastplate ACP was -3, but it's actually -4. If you wear a mithril breastplate without proficiency you will still have a -1 ACP and will suffer a -1 to attack rolls because of that.

ok im going off of this sight as my source of info

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html

and i checked it against the beta...its not the same so im pretty sure its the release version of the armor codes.
not saying your worng , i just dont understand where you get -1 from still.

** OOPS!!!!!..I was looking in the wrong collum...you are correct sir and i apologize.

It counts as lighter for movement and such, however it no longer is one category lighter. So while it works as light armor you Must have the feat that allow you to use it. As a rogue you do not start with medium armor proficiency so you will need to take the feat if you wish to use it

Edit to be clear Page 154-154 of the PRPG
"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving."

so unless you have the medium armor proficiency feat your out of luck

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

Karui Kage wrote:

Masterwork Breastplate has an ACP of -3, and mithral reduces that by 3 to a min of 0. So, no ACP, no real penalty. :)

PRD wrote:

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

All mithral items are masterwork already; the masterwork quality is reflected in the listed adjustment. That's why the benefit is 3 to ACP, not 2 like to max dex and spell failure. Still leaves -1 ACP on a breastplate.

And yes, I see where one could roll in the cheese. For solid RAI verification, cross-reference Mithral Full Plate of Speed: ACP -3, not -2.

Hide can't be mithral, so there's no medium armor that lets you cheat on proficiency. (All the light armor does, though.)

so what are you saying exactly. im bot following (forgive me i have a tooth infection and thus have been taking vicodin for the pain).

**you can check that here** http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html

25 if you include two-weapon defense.

10 + 9 (Armor bonus) + 5 (Dexterity) + 1 (Two Weapon Defense shield bonus) = 25

DANG! pretty heavy armor for just a 10th lvl rogue.....

A masterwork breastplate has a max dex bonus of +4. So just the armor and dexterity gives you 23 AC.

Bracers of Protection provide an armor bonus, and so do not stack with regular armor.

Same with the spider silk skirt - you might be able to wear it under your armor, but it's not going to provide any additional protection.

ah ok! well i will sell them then!

so 24 with 2 weapon defense correct?

i have a mithral breastplate +3
i also have a dex of 21 (so +5)
what is the armor score for that combo alone?
cause then i have Bracers of protection +2
Spider silk shirt +2 (the GM is letting me get away with wearing it with the armor, his reasoning is that you have to wear a shirt or padding beneath ANY armor anyway.
and then i have 2 weapon defense
what would my total score be then?
cause for some reason i came to 29 and i think that's a little nuts.

Dragon Magazine Compendium Vol. 1

thanks very much!!

The hardcover Vol. 1 (and only printed volume) on page 105. Originally printed in Dragon #310.

what was the name of the book?

Honestly, that's a sick ability. Even if the rogue could only trade dice when he'd otherwise qualify for sneak attack, that adds a *ton* of attack bonus. Leaving it scalable as well (trading half your dice so you still deal *lots* of damage) is heavy overkill. IMHO.

well yeah but compare that to a fighters BAB plus strength. or a fighter wizard with first lvl spell (i cant remember the spell name) that add +20 to you to hit roll?

**edit** im only adding +1 per die as opposed to +2 that was offered in dragon magazine. i mean +20 at 20th lvl? yeah that's a bit much)

I think there was something like this in Dragon. Lemme look it up in the Compendium. Basically you got a +1 to hit for every d6 you gave up, just like you said.

Edit: Precise Strike, +2 to hit per dice sacrificed for that round.

which compendium and page?

i was just thinking about my rogue build and was pondering over the lack of BAB for the class, that is when it struck me. what if i could have a feat that i could exchange each die of sneak attack for a +1 BAB?
so hence
2d6 = +2bab
3d6 = +3bab
ect ect ect.

so for a 20th lvl rogue id have a maximum of +10bab
you forgo your sneak attack for that round for the exchange, you gain no extra attacks for that round from it.
so if you had say +5 BAB, and you had 3d6 sneak attack and you exchange it for the +3 BAB for a total +8 BAB, no extra attacks for beging above +6.
if you have 2 weapon fighting and made the exchange, you add the +3BAB to both attacks but once again no extra attacks made, and you get to have no other sneak attacks till the next time the target is vulnerable to another sneak attempt.

what say you??? :D

Wraithstrike is very nifty! I play in a game where our primary tank is a kobold battle sorcerer, and being able to claw/claw/bite/tail with touch attacks is very brutal. But I'm not sure if it converts ranged attacks into ranged touch attacks.

I'm assuming you're using Ray of Enfeeblement...the extra sneak attack damage is negative energy damage...right?

good questions as this has never been addressed by my game group.

and from what i know about Wraith strike, no it dose not apply to ranged attacks, melee only as of my last understanding.

What level is Swift Invisiblity? You might want that in addition to the wand of Greater Invisiblity. Or maybe go Ninja-Sorcerer....but call yourself a Shadow Stalker if you don't want the Oriental flavor.

Mmmmm.....Oriental flavor......

**drools like Homer**

ha yes no one can resist the power of blue ramen!

bump>>>>

Building a SA archer is nice for the first round, but after that you're unlikely to get much sneak-attack. After six rogue levels you're probably never going to be a "badass artillery piece" (at least with your attack spells), though you'll have some neat trick to tack onto your arrows in that killer surprise round.

If you can get an item of improved invisibility (ideally a wand) that would let you peg people with SA while using your magic arrows.

hmmm... i do have ideas for that part of after the Surprise round that will make up for that (some of the spells i have picked can keep a target flatfooted for 1min) and i figure after the surprise round i will probably have to close in on the target with the fighter or will i will be in close range during the surprise round and will need to cover the fighters back.

ok so heres the situation. my GM has decided to restart an old "Us" game (ya know where you just play your self in the setting) and we have changed from 3.5 to pathfinder! (after much begging)
anyway i need a rebuild for my old Arcane Archer.
since the classes have changed so much he is allowing us to reconfigure are character but we must have the same prestige class we had before.
i decided that id stick with what i had previously

so i decided that id go with rogue/Sorcerer (arcane bloodline)
so that i could have both ranged and melee sneak attacks and spells to make the job of getting in and out easier.

so the brake down is: human, 6lvl rogue and 4lvl Sorcerer

so now i gotta figure out to bes optimize my characters build cause im still pretty new to the game and well i have a b*$$% of a time settling on ideas. so please help!

the setting is in forgotten realms (as per the old game)
i was also allowed to sell some old items i didn't need to get some new stuff that might better fit. the GM sold me a Light Swordbow (and had that made out of adamantium from a bastard sword that i gained in the old game)

main goal...to be a bad ass artillery piece with out screwing my self in melee
oh and i must have Toughness (were kinda fighter light right now, all we got is one fighter out a group of 6. i kinda need back him up as he also makes for my only flanking partner, i kinda want to keep up with him HP wise)
thanks for the help!

My understanding is that the spell must be able to inflict precision damage, therefore, no AoE, no cones, no attribute damage, and nothing that can't be specifically targeted, like Magic Missile.

i agree!!

i know, i used to play the life out of 2nd ed, and i only got into 3.5ed about lets see...4 years ago maybe? to say the least i wasnt thrilled when the GM said "ok were gona convert from 2nd ed to 3.5" i was like "ok might be cool"..it wasnt
at the time i was a 4th lvl ranger with the justifier kit from the complete ranger handbook.
wellll?...i had to chose 2 weapon fighting as opposed to just having it, and there was no justifier kit anymore so just those 2 diffrences alone WRECKED my charater concept. i had falconeer as oe of the skills i had in 2nd ed...that didnt exsist now, i had a flame toung...yes there is one in 3.5ed but well lets face it THERE TOTALY DIFFRENT THINGS.
and quite honestly 3.5 put out WAYYYYY too much shit to try to get.
i mean theres a spell compedium but it dosent have all the variants of the spells (like ball lighting or the alternet rule to magic missle to make then 1d6+1 arrows of damage insted)
nor did they do the smart thing and sell updates or a "spell compenium II"
ok done with rant... :D

i know i am not about just crunching numbers normally, its ju8st for the test that were doing it this way. since this game is planned to only be about 8-10 lvls were not too concerned with story cause its gonna be so short for us. we want to push the limits of the game engine to see if there are any exploits to be dealt with. so hence number crunching.
i do however have a fluff character based for when we do convert (its gonna be a rogue/fighter combo)
so yeah for the fluff character i want to do the 2 rapier thing cause i was inspired by old movies like "count of montesquieu" and old zoro stuff. you know, not so much a thief or skulking but rather the dashing swashbuckler type. so hence the want for the 2 rapier idea (ok and yeah to me it looks cool ;) )
i have concluded that yes it can be done but not right away but rather much latter down the line. (like 12-15th lvl or so for the feat tree i have put in place)

man i gotta say what a comunity we have here...you guys are really responceive and may i add very friendly! (kinda like family around here..kinda nice :D )

ok so someone want to do a writeup of what they have in mind for me then?

we all agree that 2 weapon is a good idea and i see what the point is with the rapier/shortsword combo vs the other combo's that have been suggested. i think thats the way i will go with things till i can get the sawtooth saber proficentcy.

thanks for the help and please keep me posted with any other ideas you might have!

so progression for this guy? only need to go to 10th lvl or so cause it is doubtful that we weill go past that in the test run.

should i take my first lvl as a fighter? and then if i do, what do i take as my prefered class?

i still kinda wanna do the 2 rapier thing, is there any way i could make that work? (ok REASONABLY?)

jacob friesel wrote:

whats the big bonus of short swords vs rapier?

The attack penalties are much more substantial when wielding 2X1h vs 2Xlight

Rogues aren't the best when it comes to hitting stuff in the first place... those mods are pretty much a deal breaker.

-2/-2 Shorts OR -4/-4 Rapier.

whats the big bonus of short swords vs rapier?
ok one is a light weapon, and i get my dex bonus with the other.
plus if i take weapon finesse and 2 weapon fighting.... whats my negative then with 2 rapiers?
im not saying no...im just not seeing why one is better than the other.

never the less....im willing to take suggestions

hre are my stats

str: 12
dex: 16
con: 16 (+2 racial mod)
int: 14
wis: 11
cha: 13

male human rouge (1st lvl)

feats: toughness, dodge

skills: sneak attack (1d6), trapfinding

HP: 22 (6 from racial hit point, see book. +4 from con if racial mod is left there, +3 from toughness, +8 from maximum hit points for first lvl(standing house rule), and +1 from favored class

AC: (havent picked armor yet)

main weapon of choice: rapier

now i want close in fighter (basicaly a rogue that can keep up with or possibly take down a fighter) definately 2 weapon fighting.
how would you progress the build (just rogue talent and feats lvl by lvl).... thats what i need is others people input and how they might go about it.

i understand that, its just looks a little off the way ots in the book... would be great if it said something like "advanced talents AVALIBLE, rogue talent".

if it isnt stated clearly in the book then it sets a presidence that gamers will argue the GM for (and possibly get away with) that will for all intentions be cheating. clear stated rules are CRITICAL espcialy when it comes to charater generation.

i understand that very well in the point you are trying to make... to that end there are 2 others in my team that have yet to decide what class they want to play. so odds are , given that we are a VERY experienced team of gamers, one of them will decide that we need a cleric, hell ill try to convince them that we need 2!
i mean really clarics can fight, heal and cast some prety good attack spells. why do you need a wizard?

Basically "Advanced Talent" simply means that you now have access to the advanced talents, with your "Rogue Talent" choices. It's just one at 10th level.

i thought so but the way it is printed in the book dosent make that exactly clear. hopefuly the offcial release clariflys that.

Disenchanter wrote:

With your group low on magic, particularly healing magic, I'd strongly recommend the talent Resiliency. And I'd strongly suggest getting it as early as possible.

how about this then?

2nd. resiliency
4th. supprise attacks
6th. bleeding attack
(rest goes on as per what i had posted earlier)

With your group low on magic, particularly healing magic, I'd strongly recommend the talent Resiliency. And I'd strongly suggest getting it as early as possible.

i thought about that but my build has an 18 con plus imtakin the plus one HP from favored class. add to that my gm is gonna go with the racial HP idea as well...

the kind of game ...well my GM is an old time so were playing an old ad&d 2nd Ed modual...so far we have a half ork monk, and a half elven Ranger, and a human fighter, plus me (human rogue but we already knew that) and that about it for now...there are 5 guys in my party not counting my self.. were martial heavy and low on the magic.
the setting is an old dungion crawl. (knolls, orks, trolls, kobalds, ect)

first let me say thanks for the help!
i knew that the main rules were not out so i assume that antresponces that i will ahve wll be from the beta. i sa this just so that we are clear for futher disscussions.
so now taht i got the legal stuff out of the way.

1. you're responce makes sense in reguards that its a one shot use when it comes to rouge talents. i just wish i could take the "minor magic" and "major magic" talent more than once (and that with the advanced rouge talents, would like to get access to 2nd and 3rd lvl spells)

on a side note when it says at 10th lvl, advanced talent, rogue talent
do you get one of each ir is it jsut telling you that you can now pick one?

2. REALLY????.....holy $#!T.... damn thats NASTY at like 10th lvl..lets see that 5d6, plus weapon damage, plus poision (if you use the pathfinder chronicals book) plus str bonus, and if you get any criticals (i know that sneak attack dosent double with crits)

3. whats the stats on the War Razor and where do i find it in the books? (only cause my GM demands that if you have something thats not in the main book you have to show where it came from)

while i seem to have yor attention let me put this build past you
(feats and rogue talents only)

feats
1st. Dodge, toughness
3rd. mobility
5th. agile manuvers
7th. spring attack
9th. 2 weapon fighting
11th. improved critical
13th. (unknown)
15th. greater 2 weapon fighting
17th. vital strike
19th. (unknown)

talents
2nd. minor magic: detect magic
4th. major magic: ray of enfeeblement
6th. bleeding attack
8th. finesse rogue
10th. combat trick: improved 2 weapon fighting
12th. advanced talent: opportunist
(after that i havent picked yet)

me and my friends decided that were gonna try pathfinder (running off the beta test) now i am an experienced gamer and used to standard 3.5, so to say the least i was blown away at the new rogue class and decided i have to have it..but im haveing hard time with a few things.
like.

1. are all talents one use only (like finesse rouge :enter weapon type:) can i take that for more than one weapon of is it just exactly that just that one weapon just that one time?
and same with the spells that they can get....is it only the one spell and thats it or can they take it more than once and get more than just one spell.

2. a close in fighter build..i an wracking my brains trying to find a way for my rogue to keep up with the partys new fighter (the whole team is trying pathfinder for the first time).
Sec. 1.a: dose sneak attack count for all my attacks for that round?
as in like say i take 2 weapon fighting, do i get sneak attack with both attacks or just the first one? (i never played a rogue in 3.5 so i have no idea how this works exactly.

3. i am gonna play a human...what weapons can i take with "weapon training" trait? are exotics included and what would be a good fit for my rogue build?

Mine is my first Mage from AD&D 2Ed. Duke Van Handle was his name (now that i look back at it its a good name comming from a 13 yr old). he is my oldest charater and i retired him at 18th lvl!. he had been in and out of "curse of the azure bonds" no less than 5 times (was the only campain box set we had for like 2 years) went into the menzoberran, didnt come out for over 10 years and came out alone at that. killed no les than 4 Dracoliches (ok so i had team help for that). had his own spelljammer ship before he was retired, went to gray hawk, got out of ravenloft by scareing Strad into letting him go. yeah he was fun.
now im playing a rouge in Pathfinder. in looking at brinnging him back and starting him over again in pathfinder as a sorcerer with the "undead" blodline (ok when i created him i had just got done reading Dragonlance cronicles, i was AMAZED with Rastilin and yes my charated was sorrta a clone, so he looked undead most of the time so this bloodline would fit him perfectly)
i need some help though with the rouge build hence why im on here. someone PM me with their rouge build so i can see what they did and i have some rule clarifications needed (namely sneakattack) and some of the talents cleared up...but im not gonna hijack the thread. so please PM me if you can help! :D