Simple question about armor


Rules Questions


i have a mithral breastplate +3
i also have a dex of 21 (so +5)
what is the armor score for that combo alone?
cause then i have Bracers of protection +2
Spider silk shirt +2 (the GM is letting me get away with wearing it with the armor, his reasoning is that you have to wear a shirt or padding beneath ANY armor anyway.
and then i have 2 weapon defense
what would my total score be then?
cause for some reason i came to 29 and i think that's a little nuts.


A masterwork breastplate has a max dex bonus of +4. So just the armor and dexterity gives you 23 AC.

Bracers of Protection provide an armor bonus, and so do not stack with regular armor.

Same with the spider silk skirt - you might be able to wear it under your armor, but it's not going to provide any additional protection.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Masterwork breastplate has a max dex of +3, same as a non-masterwork breastplate. Only the check penalty is reduced.

However, a mithral breastplate has a max dex of +5. So you're going to get AC 24 between the 6+3 armor and +5 dex.

Of the rest only Two Weapon Defense stacks (Shield bonus) which brings you to 25, or 26 with a total defense action.


Jabor wrote:

A masterwork breastplate has a max dex bonus of +4. So just the armor and dexterity gives you 23 AC.

Bracers of Protection provide an armor bonus, and so do not stack with regular armor.

Same with the spider silk skirt - you might be able to wear it under your armor, but it's not going to provide any additional protection.

ah ok! well i will sell them then!

so 24 with 2 weapon defense correct?

Scarab Sages

25 if you include two-weapon defense.

10 + 9 (Armor bonus) + 5 (Dexterity) + 1 (Two Weapon Defense shield bonus) = 25


Karui Kage wrote:

25 if you include two-weapon defense.

10 + 9 (Armor bonus) + 5 (Dexterity) + 1 (Two Weapon Defense shield bonus) = 25

DANG! pretty heavy armor for just a 10th lvl rogue.....

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

jacob friesel wrote:
rogue

You didn't mention that part. Just to be certain: you've picked up medium armor proficiency? Mithral doesn't let you skip that anymore.

Scarab Sages

Even if he doesn't, it's not like it really matters. All lack of proficiency does is give you a penalty on your attacks equal to the armor check penalty. Masterwork Breastplate has an ACP of -3, and mithral reduces that by 3 to a min of 0. So, no ACP, no real penalty. :)

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Karui Kage wrote:
Masterwork Breastplate has an ACP of -3, and mithral reduces that by 3 to a min of 0. So, no ACP, no real penalty. :)
PRD wrote:
Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

All mithral items are masterwork already; the masterwork quality is reflected in the listed adjustment. That's why the benefit is 3 to ACP, not 2 like to max dex and spell failure. Still leaves -1 ACP on a breastplate.

And yes, I see where one could roll in the cheese. For solid RAI verification, cross-reference Mithral Full Plate of Speed: ACP -3, not -2.

Hide can't be mithral, so there's no medium armor that lets you cheat on proficiency. (All the light armor does, though.)


tejón wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:
Masterwork Breastplate has an ACP of -3, and mithral reduces that by 3 to a min of 0. So, no ACP, no real penalty. :)
PRD wrote:
Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

All mithral items are masterwork already; the masterwork quality is reflected in the listed adjustment. That's why the benefit is 3 to ACP, not 2 like to max dex and spell failure. Still leaves -1 ACP on a breastplate.

And yes, I see where one could roll in the cheese. For solid RAI verification, cross-reference Mithral Full Plate of Speed: ACP -3, not -2.

Hide can't be mithral, so there's no medium armor that lets you cheat on proficiency. (All the light armor does, though.)

so what are you saying exactly. im bot following (forgive me i have a tooth infection and thus have been taking vicodin for the pain).

id have to point out that mithral rules state that
"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. "
so am i right to believe that it by routes that rule?

**you can check that here** http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html


It counts as lighter for movement and such, however it no longer is one category lighter. So while it works as light armor you Must have the feat that allow you to use it. As a rogue you do not start with medium armor proficiency so you will need to take the feat if you wish to use it

Edit to be clear Page 154-154 of the PRPG
"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving."

so unless you have the medium armor proficiency feat your out of luck


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

It counts as lighter for movement and such, however it no longer is one category lighter. So while it works as light armor you Must have the feat that allow you to use it. As a rogue you do not start with medium armor proficiency so you will need to take the feat if you wish to use it

Edit to be clear Page 154-154 of the PRPG
"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving."

so unless you have the medium armor proficiency feat your out of luck

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

so a breast plate is +3 ACP but the rules state....
"Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0)."
so it brakes even thus no penalty.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
jacob friesel wrote:

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

so a breast plate is +3 ACP but the rules state....
"Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0)."
so it brakes even thus no penalty.

That would be correct if breastplate ACP was -3, but it's actually -4. If you wear a mithril breastplate without proficiency you will still have a -1 ACP and will suffer a -1 to attack rolls because of that.


Eric Tillemans wrote:
jacob friesel wrote:

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

so a breast plate is +3 ACP but the rules state....
"Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0)."
so it brakes even thus no penalty.
That would be correct if breastplate ACP was -3, but it's actually -4. If you wear a mithril breastplate without proficiency you will still have a -1 ACP and will suffer a -1 to attack rolls because of that.

ok im going off of this sight as my source of info

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html

and i checked it against the beta...its not the same so im pretty sure its the release version of the armor codes.
not saying your worng , i just dont understand where you get -1 from still.

** OOPS!!!!!..I was looking in the wrong collum...you are correct sir and i apologize.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4

jacob friesel wrote:

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

so a breast plate is +3 ACP but the rules state....
"Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0)."
so it brakes even thus no penalty.

The armor check penalty on breastplate is -4 and costs 200 gp

The armor check penalty on masterwork breastplate is -3 and costs 350 gp
The armor check penalty on mithral breastplate (which is masterwork) is -1 and costs 4200 gp

See Elven Chain and Mithral Full Plate of Speed in the specific armors section for examples of completed stats on mithral armors.

What you need is a little combat trait known as 'Armor Expert' from the Character Trait free download, in order to get your Mithral Breastplate down to an armor check penalty of zero and therefore your non-proficient penalty down to zero.


You could wear elven chain instead, it is treated as light armor.

PRD wrote:

Elven Chain

Aura no aura (nonmagical); CL —

Slot armor; Price 5,150 gp; Weight 20 lbs.

DESCRIPTION

This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of –2.


MillerHero wrote:
jacob friesel wrote:

ok so i dont have the feat for it, BUT it is mithral breast plate.

so a breast plate is +3 ACP but the rules state....
"Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0)."
so it brakes even thus no penalty.

The armor check penalty on breastplate is -4 and costs 200 gp

The armor check penalty on masterwork breastplate is -3 and costs 350 gp
The armor check penalty on mithral breastplate (which is masterwork) is -1 and costs 4200 gp

See Elven Chain and Mithral Full Plate of Speed in the specific armors section for examples of completed stats on mithral armors.

What you need is a little combat trait known as 'Armor Expert' from the Character Trait free download, in order to get your Mithral Breastplate down to an armor check penalty of zero and therefore your non-proficient penalty down to zero.

oh DUH on me..i forgot , yeha im a 10th lvl character with 1 lvl fighter ,6 lvls of rogue and 3 lvl's or order of the bow.

yeah no issue!!! :D
sorry this is part of a rebuild were doing cause we converted from 3.5.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

MillerHero wrote:
What you need is a little combat trait known as 'Armor Expert' from the Character Trait free download, in order to get your Mithral Breastplate down to an armor check penalty of zero and therefore your non-proficient penalty down to zero.

Every character trait I've seen quoted so far is such a fat wad of cheese... is there a flaw that has to be taken to qualify for these, or are they just pure power inflation?


tejón wrote:
MillerHero wrote:
What you need is a little combat trait known as 'Armor Expert' from the Character Trait free download, in order to get your Mithral Breastplate down to an armor check penalty of zero and therefore your non-proficient penalty down to zero.
Every character trait I've seen quoted so far is such a fat wad of cheese... is there a flaw that has to be taken to qualify for these, or are they just pure power inflation?

From your point of veiw I think you might just call them pure power inflation.

They are suppose to have like mini-feats or half-feats.

Scarab Sages

tejón wrote:
MillerHero wrote:
What you need is a little combat trait known as 'Armor Expert' from the Character Trait free download, in order to get your Mithral Breastplate down to an armor check penalty of zero and therefore your non-proficient penalty down to zero.
Every character trait I've seen quoted so far is such a fat wad of cheese... is there a flaw that has to be taken to qualify for these, or are they just pure power inflation?

All that trait does is reduce the armor check penalty of armor you wear by 1. Not exactly a huge 'hunk of cheese'.

Traits are, quite literally, half-feats. They almost always have half the power of a normal feat. Paizo usually gives out two per player for a single Adventure Path, with one of these being a Campaign Trait that, in addition to giving a minor bonus, gives the player a reason to be in that Adventure Path. A very cool link.

Sovereign Court

pres man wrote:

You could wear elven chain instead, it is treated as light armor.

PRD wrote:

Elven Chain

Aura no aura (nonmagical); CL —

Slot armor; Price 5,150 gp; Weight 20 lbs.

DESCRIPTION

This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of –2.

That's awesome! Elven Chain is finally useful again!


pres man wrote:

You could wear elven chain instead, it is treated as light armor.

PRD wrote:

Elven Chain

Aura no aura (nonmagical); CL —

Slot armor; Price 5,150 gp; Weight 20 lbs.

DESCRIPTION

This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of –2.

I did not realize. So now we have:

Mithral Shirt: Light Prof. (30'); +4 Armor; Max Dex +6; Check Penalty 0; ASF 10%.
Elven Chain: Light Prof. (30'); +6 Armor; Max Dex +4; Check Penalty -2; ASF 20%.
Mithral Breastplate: Medium Prof. (30'); +6 Armor; Max Dex +5; Check Penalty -1; ASF 15%.
Celestial Armor: Light Prof (30'); +6 Armor; Max Dex +8; Check penalty -2; ASF 15%
Mithral Fullplate: Heavy Prof. (20'); +9 Armor; Max Dex +3; Check Penalty -3; ASF 25%.

I think it's fine: mithral breastplate is still better that chainmail, but requires medium proficency.

Edit: below posters are right, elven chain <> mithral chainmail. Was it this way in 3.5? I'll check it


Umm no that would be elven chain, plain mithral chain mail does not count as light for proficiency, just elven chain

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

angelroble wrote:
Mithral Chainmail: Light Prof. (30'); +6 Armor; Max Dex +4; Check Penalty -2; ASF 20%.

...no. Mithral chainmail requires medium proficiency. Elven chain costs 1000g more.

BOOM! Headshot.

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