cooperton's page

We're currently playing a city game.
As was mentioned above, defining a role for the party is helpful (we're thieves).
Beyond that the DM has kept it fresh by sending us into catacombs beneath the city and involving some politics. In our game there are dozens of guilds and power groups. We work for one and have done a lot of work to increase that group's power in the city.

First of all, thanks for the input.

This is obviously a band-aid for the amulet of mighty fist problem, and not a solution for every issue the monk has.

To be honest, no single magic item can re-balance a class.

As for the slot, it actually takes the shirt slot, not the robe slot. That's one of the things I wished to address. Monks want amulets of natural armor, ring of protection, monks robe, and various other things. So I placed this in a rarely used slot.

I never thought this would become official.

Finally, charging a monk double for magic fists on account of flurry is a mistake. Flurry is not equal to two weapon fighting. So I multiplied the cost by 1.5 to make up the difference.

A 3.5 book called dungeonscape featured wand sheiths which could be built into weapons. I'm not aware of any PF material that does anything similar.

Edit: it may have been cityscape or complete scoundrel. I can't clearly remember.

One last bump, anyone have an opinion on this custom item?

Anyone? Guess its pretty decent since no one has an opinion.

I'd say tactician fighter 1/ ranger 19 will give you what your looking for.
You could go urban ranger for knowledge local, or you could grab it as a class skill with a trait or feat. Or you could just keep the ranks maxed and not worry about the +3 from it being a class skill. By mid levels the +3 doesn't make much of a difference anyway.

No, for the most part Dragon Shaman is a weak class. A very weak class.

But when Wizards released (most) of the core in the SRD, none of that applied to supplements. They added Epic Level Handbook, Expanded Psionics Handbook, and Deities & Demigods to the SRD after they released them (and Unearthed Arcana was an OGL product) but they didn't add any of the rules from the majority of their supplements to the SRD.

Paizo could legally create a class that worships dragons, and a class called Dragon Shaman, but they couldn't create a Dragon Shaman class that grants draconic auras, a breath weapon, and lay on hands like a Paladin.

Same reason there's no official Warlock, despite everyone wanting one.

This.

As far as pathfinderizing it. Id probably give it full bab to go with its d10 and maybe martial weapons proficiency and call it good.

Handaxe and heavy spiked shield.
Or Battleaxe and light spiked shield.
Axes and pointy shields are cool.

Although I had a lot of fun with my keen scimitar heavy spike shield ranger.

Is 3.5 material allowed? If so you might consider the enlightened fist prestige class from complete arcane.

Then you'll have some spells to shore up your abilities.

If your open to psionics dreamscarred press' psionics book has the telepath discipline which is pretty snazzy.

Yeah, the road to eldritch knight is rough.

I think that's why magus is so popular.

And if your brother isn't to attached to any particular magic trick skeletor pulled off, magus certainly covers the flavor well.

Teleportation, telepathy... sounds like an eldritch knight to me. Who had some kinda accident and now has a skull face.

Technically the second use of exploit weakness doesn't ask for a check. So you can have the dodge bonus on tough fights with no check.

Thoughts? Comments? Criticisms?

Monk's Mantle

Aura faint evocation
CL 5th
Slot: chest

Price: 3000 gp (+1), 12000 gp (+2), 27000 gp (+3), 48000 gp (+4), 75000 gp (+5), 108000 gp (+6*), 147000 gp (+7*), 192000 (+8*), 243000 gp (+9*), 300000 gp (+10*)
Weight —

Description: This mantle grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks.
Some of these mantles grant special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A mantle cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A mantle with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. It cannot possess the same special ability more than once. A mantle can't grant an enhancement bonus higher than +5.

Crafting requirements: cl 5 (or 3 x the enhancement bonus, whichever is higher). Magic weapon. Craft magic arms and armor, craft wonderous item.
Note: weapon special abilities have their own requirements, these must also be met to apply them to a monk's mantle.

Why is ACP a rule?
Wish to test it out?

Go put some big fluffy gloves and thick sweats on.

Then try to do the following things.

1) Type a post on this forum. (Generic dexterity task).

2) Try to get the right key off of a very full keyring and unlock a door (a much easier version of disable device)

3) Climb a fence

4) Take a swim.

Now imagine doing all those things if your gloves and sweats were made of hardened leather or steel.

Maybe ride shouldn't be penalized (but isn't there an enchantment to get around that?)

Or you could get a glove of storing.
Or if you have access to the 3.5 magic item compendium you could buy a couple of least crystals of return

Penguins use their wings to swim. Of course their wings are more similar to the average fin than they are to the average wing.

I thought so. Thanks for the quick answers.

My logic behind it was that technically a combat maneuver is an attack. And boar shred doesnt require you to deal damage. Its shifty logic, I fully admit that.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Also thanks for the rule quote on #2 that clarifies the stun question completely. I missed the line about needing to do damage.

Let me specify on #1... I think I was unclear.

Possibility 1. Monk trips orc. Due to greater trip the orc provokes for being tripped. Monk succeeds on his attack. Having tripped the orc, and then punched him, the monk applies bleed damage. (This is what I'm asking about)

Possibility 2. (What I think you think I'm talking about)
Monk trips orc, orc provokes, monk punches orc. On orc's turn he gets up, this provokes, monk punches orc. This is the second hit this round so the monk applies bleed damage.
(I know this second situation is RAW. My question is about the more shifty possibility #1)

So I've got a couple of questions. I tried to search, but no luck.

Before I start let me first apologize for opening that can of worms that is monk discussion. And let me also say that I'm pretty sure none of this is RAW per se, but I'm curious about folks opinions.

Still with me? Cool

#1. Lets say we have a monk with greater trip and boar shred.

When he trips he gets an AOO. When he hits twice in the same round he adds bleed damage.

If he trips someone (a hit) and then succeeds on his AOO (a hit) does that trigger the bleed damage from boar style?

My inclination is no, but the idea of a monk spring attacking and causing his target to bleed out is very cool.

#2. Can a monk use the stunning fist feat on a combat maneuver performed with his unarmed strike? Aka trip and stun the target.

In this thread the Author of the Archetype says he intended to take out abundant step but forgot.

Note: my apologies for the typos. I'm on my phone. Ill fix them when I can get to a computer.

@TriOmegaZero: You're absolutely correct. Can't believe I left that out. I chose mine for a thieves guild game for that exact reason. Ill add it in when I fix my typos.

I'm currently playing one, and enjoying the heck out of it. I'm going to do a rundown of their abilities and why I like them.

Pain Points- This is a nifty ability, but not spectacular. The bonus on critical confirmation is handy. The boost stunning fist DCs is certainly a good thing. The boost to quivering palm DCs is downright amazing when combined with later abilities.

Martial Arts Master- This is a big deal. This lets the monk take fighter only feats. Greater weapon focus and both weapon specialization feats do a lot to help a monk's accuracy amd damage output.

Exploit Weakness- Oh boy, this one here is a hot button. Some people think its terrible, because it requires a roll and swift action to use. Others think its too good because its an at will ability.
Personally I fall somewhere in the middle, but that opinion may change after more playtesting.

What it does: It allows you to do one of two things as a swift action.
1) Make a wisdom + monk level check against a creature or object to get a bonus to hit and ignore DR or hardness of the target.
2) Get a bonus equal to half your monk level as bonus on sense motive and a dodge bonus to armor.
It only works on a single target at a time.
Note: Technically this second ability does not ask for a wisdom check. For those who think the check makes the first ability useless, this could be a decent fix.

Extreme Endurance- Thia eventually makes the Martial Artist immune to: fatigue, exhaustion, stunning, energy drain, and death affects.
This ability is very cool, and for those who've wanted to use monk and barbarian together its a godsend. Immunity to fatigue means you can rage-cycle at will with no ill effects.

Physical Resistance- This gives a scaling reduction to all ability drain and damage. Very cool for avoiding debuffs.

Improved Pain Points- This is not in the book, but the writer said that abundant step should be replaced with an ability that doubles the affect of pain points. Spiffy.

Defensive Roll- As the rogue talent of the same name. Gives you a chance to not die from physical attacks when you otherwise would. Very useful for a front liner.

Quivering Palm- A martial artist gets additional uses of this ability starting at 15th level. Remember how pain points and improved the DCs on quivering palm? Yeah, now you get to do it more than a standard monk. Good times.

Greater Defensive Roll- As the rogue ability. Better odds at not dieing in melee. Its a good thing.

All in all these abilities add up to make martial artists hit harder, more accurately, and take hits better.
Does this make then equal to an optimized fighter or brbarian with a greatsword? Probably not. But does it make them a viable front liner? If they can get a guided weapon, I think so.

Wait, whats a guided weapon you ask?
Its a +1 weapon property from a paizo splat book that allows you to use wisdom instead of strength for hitting and damage. And I think its absolutely necessary for monks to compete in a front-line role.

Its up on the PFSRD. Ask your dm if you can use it.

This concludes why I think the martil artist archtype is amazing.

Thank You
-Cooperton

This thread brings up some interesting points.
And reminds me of why I like the Eberron Campaign Setting so much.

Alignment is more relaxed there. Clerics can cast any spell regardless of alignment, and in fact alignment restrictions on classes (and even which god you worship) are practically non-existant.

The notable exceptions being monks, druids and paladins.

I would probably not kill the cavalier's bonded mount. Maybe I'm too nice though. I would have the PCs come across the other dead mounts, but the cavalier's bonded mount isn't there. The story basically being that since it is an exception horse, it managed to escape somehow. The players then need to track the mount down. They might show up just in time to save the bonded mount from some other peril.

This makes the cavalier appreciate that his horse is BA, while also finding a way out of the logical premise that the bad guy would kill all the mounts. The cavalier is inconvenienced for a couple encounters for not being careful enough with his mount, but not punished for 10-12 encounters or whatever while he waits to level.

That said, a cavalier is still pretty good on any horse. It isn't like you are neutralizing his whole character by taking away the bonded mount. He'll just have to get his hands on a regular warhorse for a while.

This.

It teaches the cavalier to be more careful, gives you a nice hook as dm, and opens an oppotunity for drama.

There's a post around here somewhere called "Tucker's kobolds" its all about challenging high level parties with superior tactics.

I can't post a link because I'm on my phone. But a google search should turn it up.

Its worth a read.

Little too late for carmendine monk, doesn't really fit his fluff either. Oh well.

As far as abundant step, my monk (like all monks) is a qinggong monk, so I'm trading abundant step to get diamond body back. Then I can spread contact poison on my fists and go nuts.

The only 3.5 book specifically banned is the book of vile darkness. Any updated material is also out. Everything else 3.5 is a case-by-case basis. But the dm is fairly permissive.

My character is true neutral.

As far as elemental fist, 1d6 on one attack does suck. But dragon ferocity makes elemental fist scale as if your a monk of fours winds. +4d6 elemental damage 15 times a day is somewhat less bad, dontcha think?

Edit: of course power attack could be adding 6 or 9 on every attack (depending on how it interacts with dragon ferocity)

So the first session was last night. And I'm bored at work, so here's some more details on the party.

Human monk (martial artist), nn
Tibbit psion (telepath) cn
Gnome ninja (gnominja?) Nn
Human witch ce

The tibbit player's goal is to pretty much always be in cat form.
the ninja is like a librarian from the abyss, he sneaks into peoples houses to steal overdue library books and return them.
The witch is playing chaotic evil, like its chaotic jerk... but he's doing it humorously... and he's a good player, so it should be fine.

I've ended up as the defacto leader of the group (no suprise there)
and i had a lot of fun yelling "flurry of misses!" before rolling dice.

Just throwing up an update for funsies... feel free to still provide advice on my above build.

Cheers!

You guys are lacking a rogue and a wizard... I humbly suggest an Arcane Trickster.

If you can get undeFEATable 11 allowed there's a feat in there that takes AT from "meh" to awesome. Allowing you to qualify for the PrC with 1 rogue level.

Alternatively the 3.5 PrC Unseen Seer combos beautifully, also allowing access to AT with 1 rogue level.

But all that requires the player to be ok w/ being more of a support character. Shining by making everyone else awesome, and throwing out a sneak attack spell occasionally.

YMMV

@ duna + cityhunter: thanks for the input.

So its time for some more game info I think.

The game will take place entirely in one city. We're focusing more on thieving, politics, and intrigue than combat. (Yeah, the system isn't ideal for that style, but its good enough)

That said, combat will of course still happen.
Obviously my feats are selected to maximise my combat potential (with kung fu genius and high int shoring up skills for non-combat).

The party thus far is:
Me: martial artist
Ninja
Witch
Telepath psion

I view my role as the guy who solves problems when the job goes badly. Oh, a guard walks in while were stealing? I win initiative and stunning fist him, giving the ninja time to sap him out. And of course without a full bab combat class, I'm the BSF too.

So I suppose my goal is to be both primary damage dealer + a combat controller.

But in this game combat should really only happen to remove a witness prejob, or when things go poorly.

As a result I'm putting a lot of priority on going first, and disabiling tactics.

So, yeah... I'm a bit conflicted... I wanna deal tons of damage, while being good at control, and not sacrificing stunning fist... ugh choices :-)

So what would y'all recommend dropping to squeeze in power attack? Improved initiative? I do have the reactionary trait... so I guess I don't *need* it. But +6 to initiative!

Thanks again.

EDIT: I just looked up power attack, it requires bab +1.... that's problematic, as a mid bab class monks don't qualify til level 2, which means 3rd level. That would require delaying weapons focus.... hmmm

Kung fu genius is good times. :)
Only downsides are a slightly lower will save and no "guided" weapon property.
And of course spending a feat.

So were starting a new game soon, its a "thieves guild" game. When I saw the martial artist archetype I decided a non-lawful thieving monk was too good to resist.

But here's my issue, I havn't played a monk since Oriental Adventures came out (that's 3.0 i think).
So its been a long time since I considered a monk, I'm feeling a bit lost. Any advice would be appreciated.

So here's what I have so far.

Stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 15
Int: 20
Wis: 14
Cha: 13
Yeah, we roll stats... I kinda prefer point-buy, but my group likes to roll. And hey, I lucked out this time.

You'll notice a high int, we allow some 3.5 feats, Ill be taking kung fu genius so my monk stuff is based off int.

Traits: reactionary, fast talker
Feat build:
1) b,h: kung fu genius, combat reflexes, improved init
2) b: improved grapple
3) weapon focus; unarmed strike
5) weapon specialization: us
6) b: improved trip
7) vicious stomp
9) greater weapon focus; us
10) b: medusa's wrath
11) dragon style
13) greater weapon specialization; us
14) b: improved disarm
15) dragon ferocity
17) elemental fist
18) b: i dunno... spring attack?
19) ability focus: stunning fist... or maybe quivering palm, since i can do it 5/day by now

I left out power attack because... well there was just too much other cool stuff I wanted, and the penalty hurts on aoos, which arn't full bab unless i trip/grapple

Thoughts?

Thanks

Tl;dr
I'm making a martial artist monk for a thieves guild game, looking for advice.

The above comments about monks being overpowered are clearly jokes. But I actually had a dm once who thought monks were broken... of course he also thought having a +3 sword and no other treasure was reasonable at 15th level.

Reminds me of all the arguements about the warlock's power level back in the day.

But anyway, back to topic. Does anyone see any possible negative side effects of adding styles to monks bonus feat list? Besides a large number of dragon style monks?

Bump

I just wish Dragon Style/Ferocity was easier to pick up for my Monk builds.

Like if they were available as bonus feat choices starting at mid/high levels?

My point exactly.

As far as I can tell any monk optimized for damage will take dragon style/ferocity anyway.

So what about plugging the basic styles into the lvl 6 bonus feats, with the second tier feats coming in at lvl 10, and the third tier coming in at 14.

This gives monks more options w/o completely negating the MoMS, who can start scooping up style feats from lvl 1, and can combine them.

So... combat style feats as monk bonus feats are powerful, but not as powerful as *any other* warrior class?
Is that what I'm hearing? Cause a simple house rule that brings a monk to near fighter/barbarian/ranger level sounds about right to me.

Wow, fast responces... came in while i was editing.

While i understand that the style feats didn't exist when the core was printed, point blank master didn't either. Despite this fact, it and some other feats have been retroactively added to the ranger's choices of feats.

I could get behind choosing a single style chain to add to the list. The styles are just so cool, and monks are so feat-starved as is, it seems a bit strange that literal kung-fu styles arnt on their bonus feat list.

I do.

The combat style feats are very fluffy and cool, and are clearly intended to be used by monks. Yet monks can't use their bonus feats for style feats (there's probably an archetype that can, but that's neither here nor there).

What do y'all think? Do you think it was a purposeful design choice? Would getting access to those feats while ignoring their prereqs be too good?
Would it be unreasonable to add them into the list of monk feats at whatever level seems appropriate?

Thanks

EDIT: the master of many styles archetype can, in fact, take style feats instead of standard bonus feats... all he has to do is give up his primary attack ability (flurry) in exchange for holding multiple styles at once... which will of course do nothing, cause his low bab means he missed every attack

Thanks for the link and replies Cheapy.

I didn't really think it out performed the big three (cleric druid wizard). But the abilities are so strange that I wanted more opinions.

Thanks again

-Coop

A player in one of my games is interested in playing a time thief (from super genius games).
I gave the class a quick read on the srd site.
It seems... wonky. Certainly interesting though.

What does everyone think of this unusual 3pp class?
I'm particularly interested in playtest experiences, but welcome all opinions.

Thanks in advance.
-coop

I explain it as a connection to various chakras. It was intoduced in a 3.5 splat book (the name of which i can't remember....). Chakra seems like a better/ more fluffy word than slot.

Ps the mandarin had a feat (or 3) that let's him use multiple rings.

Your absolutely right. Magic as technology certainly blurs the line between what is mechanically an advanced weapon, and what is a magic weapon. Mostly I use power level and fluff as a method to draw the line. Ill consider the blast axe some more, but won't likely include it unless a player asks. Though the swift action activation and out of combat reloads will go a long way towards balancing it. Thanks again.

Its been about a week since anyone replied, so here's my updated list of exotic weapons for eberron 4040.

Cylinder saber (gunsword)
Orcish shotgun (shotgun-axe)
Netgun (can be purchased or modified to fire bolas instead)
Alchemist's launcher (fires flasks of alchemical substances)
Grappler (batman's grapple gun, can be used to trip)
Warforged Rifle (rifle+ shotgun)
Blast axe (if requested)

Still looking for more ideas. Feel free to chime in folks. :-)

Thanks again.

Thanks!

@Kaisoku: You raise a valid point about the mechanical weakness of basic firearms. My players and I have discussed it at length. :) Its part of the reason I made all firearms martial (except of course the ones we're working on here). However I feel advanced firearms (which do exist, but are fairly uncommon) mostly mitigate the problem. A character with rapid reload and a rifle can shoot as much as he could with a bow.

But I digress. The information you posted about your steampunk setting has already been useful to me, and I plan to reference it more later. Thanks. Also your listing of methods of creating exotic weapons are spectacular and funny! Thanks again. "Slap a clock on it." Classic!

@Parka: I really like the concept of the blast-axe, and I've played around with similar weapons. In fact the gunsword was inspired by final fantasy 8 (if it isn't blatently obvious, hehe).
I found it a bit difficult to balance however. A sword (or axe or whatever) that fires a bullet every time you hit is just a better sword (more damage). An exotic weapon that's simply a better version of an existing weapon is bad times in my opinion. (I'm looking at you bastard sword, dwarven waraxe, elven curveblade etc).

I considered having the blast-weapon fire its salvo on a critical... but I don't know about that. (Perhaps because I tend to avoid crit effects as a player). One of my many questions in design was: does the extra damage from ammo get multiplied on a crit? I decided to put this kind of design on the back-burner unless a player requested it. Regardless I'd be happy to hear peoples thoughts on blast-weapon design, mechanics, and balance.

Your other ideas are very cool, but seem more like magic items than exotic weapons. This is not a bad thing. I fully intend to design some interesting futuristic magic items to replace some of the standard stuff and make the world more high tech. (As all advanced tech is magical in nature this will be good times hopefully.) Thanks for the input.

Once again thanks. I really appreciate the input and welcome more.

-Cooperton

Wow, that's a lot of info. Thanks guys.

That said, it seems I wasn't clear enough in my OP.
I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel here.

With the exception of the above listed house rules and the addition of modified eberron races I'm using the pathfinder ruleset as is.

The purpose of this thread is to get ideas for unusual and interesting firearms.

Kaisoku's flask launcher is an excellent example. Ill be adding a modified version of it to my world.

The tech level of my campaign is not logically consistant with our world. All technology is based on magic, robotics (warforged), air travel, and space travel were all invented before gunpowder. The most common weapon in the universe is a musket. But it might be wielded by a robotic space captain.

If your curious about fluff of my world feel free to pm me.

But again, the point of this thread is for me to get ideas for exotic firearms.

For the sake of completion I'll relist my current exotic firearms.

Gunsword
Axeshotgun
Netgun
flask launcher (thanks Kaisoku!)

Anyone have any other ideas for exotic firearms?

So I've been running a homebrew campaign that I'm calling eberron 4040.
The premise is basically firefly level of tech but grown from the magictech steampunk of eberron.

In order to encourage the use of firearms I've applied several house rules.
1st firearms are martial weapons.
next the non-proficiency penalty for firearms (only) is not -4. Instead non-proficient users of firearms never target touch armor and the crit is reduced to 20/x2.

Basic firearms are all 25% market price, all ammo is 10% cost.

Also I've altered bayonets, they can be attached to any firearm, and the weapon can still be fired.

Finally bows are exceeding rare (read: expensive) and xbows are unheard of.

In addition I have created two "cheap" firearms. I call them cannith craft muskets.
The cannith long-musket is 1d6, 20' range. X2 crit, and only misfires on a 1.
the musket pistol is 10' range and 1d4.

But now I'm in the process of designing some exotic firearms. I'd like suggestions for others.

So far i have 3.
1 gunsword. Simple: revolver+ longsword= better bayonet.
2 shotgun-axe. Greataxe+shotgun. Simple
3 netgun: an advanced firearm. Two handed, essentially a net with a 10' range *increment*

TL:DR: i made a bunch of houserules to make guns better and bows worse. I want suggestions for more exotic firearms.

Thanks!

This originally came up when a player in one of my games decided to make a multi-archetype monk. For simplicity's sake I'm going to frame it in the form of a straight qinggong monk though.

So joe the qinggong monk trades away slowfall for a ki power, doesn't matter which. He does not pick up slowfall later.

He does however later trade some other class features for spider step and cloud step.

The problem is that spider/cloud step base the climb/fly speed on joe's slowfall, which he doesn't have.

Is spider/cloud step useless for monk joe? Or does it use what his slowfall would've been, had he not traded it?

What do y'all think?

Apologies if this has already been asked.
Thanks

As far as warmachine/hordes I've been looking into it lately myself (mostly cause no one likes facing my space wolves, and I'm disinclined to start another army)
anyway I've found a website that's a great resource for faction info and more importantly pictures of models.

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

Slight derail

You can't VS and Spring Attack. They aren't compatible. Check the errata.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm actually aware of the errata, but errata that makes a somewhat subpar feat completely useless can safely be ignored IMHO.

Sorry, back on topic. As far as spells making the rogue obsolete, rogues have use magic device. So a rogue can actually be invisible for more rounds a day than a wiz or sorc. A high level rogue can easily break into a wizard's tower and steal his scrolls/wands/staves, not to mention his spellbook.