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Now that we have the updated Guns and Gears, I’m curious what others think regarding this issue now. In PC2, the writers placed a specific restriction on Alchemical Archetypes (p. 174) that prevents them from regaining versatile vials in the manner outlined for the Alchemist. They specifically mention the Herbalist Dedication, Poisoner Dedication and the Alchemist dedication.

In the new Guns and Gears we now have the Fireworks Technician Dedication which specifically ALLOWs them to recover versatile vials in the manner of the Alchemist. This does not seem like a typo or a mistaken copy and paste action, since the old version did not have that text. They (Paizo) had to specifically allow it because of the restriction in PC2.

The Investigator’s Alchemical Sciences methodology is a core class feature, not a dedication. There is no reasonable assumption that a restriction placed on archetypes would apply to a core class. Additionally, their ability is limited to elixirs and tools only. This is much restricted from what the Alchemist class is able to do. Having the ability to regain versatile vials does not seem to contribute to the class being overpowered, but does allow them to use their key class feature throughout the adventuring day.

Similarly, we have the new gunslinger’s munition crafting tree. At 6th level they can upgrade to munitions machinist and gain quick alchemy as well as 4 versatile vials. They are limited to crafting bombs and ammunition. Again, this provides the ability for gunslingers to continue to use core class abilities throughout the day. Firing alchemical shots by dosing ammunition with bombs is an ability baked into the class (if you choose to go that route). Not to mention if they run out of ammo, they aren’t doing a lot of anything.

I don’t think the Firework Technician’s ability to regain versatile vials is problematic to the dedication itself, since they are limited to creating fireworks and doing firework “stuff”. This is especially true as many of its abilities require multiple vials. I think the archetype works great as a dedication for any Core Class, especially Gunslingers and Alchemists but could be good for any support class. I don’t think it should be compatible with any other Alchemical Archetypes, and this restriction should be listed in the prerequisites for the dedication. Dipping a level in Fireworks Technician to get the replenishing vials does not seem to be inline with the intent of the rules and gives archetypes too much power.

As many have mentioned, yes a versatile vial is an item that you can throw as a bomb. Statistics for these are found in a chart on page 59 of PC2.

But what is a versatile bomb exactly? “You know how to prepare fast-acting chemicals into versatile vials, special items that can be used as bombs and be turned into other alchemical items by introducing special reagents.”
When you create versatile vials, what level are they? A vial you create is always the highest type you could craft.
Can you duplicate, preserve or save versatile vials? Though versatile vials are physical objects, they can’t be duplicated or preserved in any way.

Amongst others, here are some core classes and archetypes that have access to versatile vials; Alchemist, Investigator, Gunslinger, Poisoner, Herbalist, etc. Do all these classes/archetypes explain or define versatile vials? No, actually it is only found under the Alchemist in PC2 page 58 and 59.

Now consider if a PC takes the Investigator Dedication. At 4th level they take the Investigator’s Stratagem feat, which gives them this:

You play out battles in your head, allowing you to strike when the time is right. You gain the Devise a Stratagem action; however, when you substitute its result for your attack roll, you can’t use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier.

But where are the rules for Devise a Stratagem? You have to refer to the Investigator Core class text to find that data. You see this same mechanism all the time.

Sorry, I'm behind schedule. Had a medical issue which kind of distracted me for the last few weeks.

I don't suppose you ever finished editing the list of rumors spreadsheet? If you didn't could you possibly email a copy (since you can't post it because of Paizo content).

You can send it to me at cmarmorATyahooDOTcom

I'm getting ready to kickoff this campaign and it would be a great help.

Thanks

In hindsight, I should have distinguished the family names used in the AP from made-up ones. My schedule is jammed right now, but if I get time to update it, I'll let you know.

Thanks!

I haven't used Google Docs like this before, so hope it works.

Here it is.

There are two pages, one for nobility and one for non-noble families. A lot of the professions are incomplete, but you can add whatever you feel.

Excellent! many thanks!

cmarmor wrote:

Treppa,

This is an excellent idea. I'm getting to run this campaign for my group soon, any chance you'd care to share your work?

Oh, shoot, it's horribly ugly. Give me a day or two to clean it up and make it more user-friendly. Do you have Excel?

Yes I have Excel, and thanks!

I took the major families given and made a (big damned) hierarchy of noble houses, including the last names of professional or noble NPC's they will meet in the adventures. If the players were nobility, I gave them a name that fit into this structure and gave them the houses they were ultimately beholden to. Since the city background said there were about 250 families who claimed to be noble, I put about that many names in the chart, though some were 'orphan' families that nobody could directly connect to another.

This gave them connections to other families in the AP (and each other), and some connection to the high nobles, whether by duty or blood. I gave the families a 'vocation' as well, or an area in which they had direct control of major activities in the city.

It also gave me a pool of last names for NPC's without any, or for ones I needed to make up in the course of the adventure.

This was a pretty long process, but it added a lot of depth and got the players immersed. We also had a long campaign with lots of side quests, so it was worth the effort.

Treppa,

This is an excellent idea. I'm getting to run this campaign for my group soon, any chance you'd care to share your work?

I designed my paladin player's family crest for our Kingmaker campaign: part per pale azure and argent, a horse rampant counterchanged. It can be seen here.

Ambrus, what program did you use to make this? Very nice!

Wow, very nice work! Please continue to post your progress. Will you be uploading any finished versions? I was planning on doing exactly what you have done for when my group gets around to playing this AP. Haven't gotten around to starting the map yet since my CC3 skills suck.

Further to the Eastern edge of the map thread, I added the Restov and Iobaria maps to my comparison collage.

See here.

I'll gladly pull these maps down if any Paizo folk ask me to but I kept the resolutions low and the colours false and just have them together for community comparison.

Greycloak, could you email me a hi res copy of your map? I'd like to use it as the base in creating my own campaign map of the area with Campaign Cartographer ( or perhaps photoshop). My email is cmarmor@yahoo

I was hoping to find a nice campaign map of the area my group could use. As an AP subscriber I own all the modules (which contains maps), but I don't want to spoil the surprise as I am going through this AP as a player.

I think I'll take a stab at creating my own campaign map using maps of the River Kingdoms, Brevoy and Iobarra as my model. This may take a while, but if I come up with anything decent I'll post it.

I've been following a thread that has been discussing tweaking the currently supplied maps of the Stolen Lands to correctly fit in the published maps of the River Kingdoms and Golarion.

I wonder if anyone has undertaken the creation of a complete map of the area, perhaps in Campaign Cartographer or similar software. I've been considering taking a swipe at it but don't want to duplicate someone else's work (and I hate to reinvent the wheel).

I greatly prefer a digital map such as this so I can print it in one sheet and laminate it, vice patching together the map pack (which doesn't include any of the surrounding area.

Anyone??

Ambrus,

I'd love a copy of what you have come up with. We are also planning on extending south to the Mivon area. Could you email it to me, since you probably can't post it?

cmarmor@yahoo