0. HONEST QUESTIONS TO THOSE WHO LIKE 2E
1. Do you currently like pathfinder 1e? (I know it sounds loaded, but please bare with me.)
2. Did you once like pathfinder 1e but now find it troublesome? (feel free to give details.)
3. Do you like 4th or 5th edition D&D? (Also sounds loaded but again no judgments)
4. Which are you looking for class balance, smoother high level play, more options, or even all of those things?
5. How do you feel about making the game more accessible in general?
6. Are you willing to give up on accessibility if you can still gain all of the benefits listed in question 4?
7. Would you be willing to play an alternative rules system then what we have been presented? (A different version of pathfinder 2nd edition if you will).
8. And if you said yes to the above question what would you like to see in that theoretical game? (Most of you will see what I'm doing here, I'm finding common ground)
pi4t wrote:
The rest of the group and I had actually missed that there were the traditional minuses to racial stats. Not a single one of us realized that there were subtractions to make. We also didn't realize that the Key Ability for each class was a further +2 Fixing the system can start with going back to stating things in terms of math instead of abstract concepts
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Never mind that Chelish and Taldan culture are radically different even before the Age of Lost Omens. Is the only thing binding them the color of their skin (Chelish already tend toward the pale side)? And their language? If we run that backwards, your ethnicity is just what languages you speak.
So my group did a bit of Doomsday Dawn part 1 last night after spending upwards of 3 hours in character generation (unreasonable even for a new system), and I'm going to rant a bit (and I'm going to capitalize game system names for ease of reference): Including the notes to gain an Ancestry Feat and Background in your class level up chart prompted two players to become confused as to whether they were supposed to pick a second Ancestry Feat and Background. Switching to Unchained's action economy system is cool (though simply saying how many of my actions are taken by casting a given spell would be better than having a sidebar clumsily explaining that each component takes an action), but: Adding your character level to absolutely everything serves only to make the wizard replace the fighter. Why make a fighter when I can make a muscle wizard and have him the fighter's equal after 5 levels with a couple weapon and armor proficiencies. At the moment, fighters do not gain additional attacks over time or anything else that makes them a viable threat over a caster class save for attacks of opportunity. And a wise GM mitigates those as much as he can.
TEML is uncommunicative of its properties.
Action icons are uncommunicative of their properties. I don't want to consult a legend any time two chevrons are connecting in a way I don't quite recognize. Feat types! There are five goddamn Feat types! FIVE! Not categories, TYPES! Gained at different rates and under different circumstances! Choosing Class Feats feels more like choosing what you are comfortable with losing. Having a plethora of selections at every Feat level can only exacerbate this, making the player worry about whether they should dip back into a previous level's feat catalogue for a good secondary from that level or to advance ever forward. Humans are blatantly underpowered compared to literally every other Ancestry. Not only are they at -2 to one ability score, they don't even get their traditional bonus feat. It seems that the only reason to be a human is to spec into something other than human (half-elf/half-orc). And as long as we're making crossbreeding a level 1 feat, I want half-dwarves and three-fourths-lings. Chelish is no longer considered a viable ethnicity for a character, almost as if we are to automatically assume that anyone from Cheliax is irredeemably evil and not worthy of play. Hmm... How do I use Combat Maneuvers? Okay, they relocated Grapple to Athletics and breaking it to Acrobatics, but what about the other maneuvers? Where's my CMB and CMD? The simplicity of resolving such maneuvers was, for me, one of three primary draws to Pathfinder over D&D3e/3.5e, the other two being the simplified perception skill and clearly indicated Experience Point gain for each encounter without having to consult a chart. Speaking of which: The new Experience Point system is TERRIBLE!
And the group couldn't figure out if the goblin fight in Doomsday Dawn A2 was supposed to award 120 XP (30 XP per level 0 creature slain) or just 30 XP for a flat level 0 encounter. And sideways character sheets are for hipsters! They also make the flap of a binder eat valuable table space. At least PF2 included enough room for spells this time, so there's that. |