What happened to Chelaxians?


General Discussion


Cause I don't see them in the book, which seemed a little weird with a playtest adventure starting in Magnimar. I know that they're concentrated in Korvosa, but if I recall they had really spread out from there. Wasn't Magnimar founded but a group of Chelaxians that wanted to break with the old empire?


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Here you go
From this post

James Jacobs wrote:

This is a correction we're looking to make that is in many ways long overdue to the world.

Ethnically, Chelaxians are identical to Taldans and really always have been; they've been traditionally treated as their own ethnicity mostly due to the fact that their government is diabolic, which is a weird reason to do that. Especially since that didn't hold true for the nation pre-Age of Lost Omens. (Note that they don't even have their own ethnic language.) So with the new edition, we're adjusting that to include them under the umbrella of the Taldan ethnicity.


JJ is still here? I thought he had moved elsewhere.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

????


they're just maxin, relaxin all cool


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AnimatedPaper wrote:

Here you go

From this post
James Jacobs wrote:

This is a correction we're looking to make that is in many ways long overdue to the world.

Ethnically, Chelaxians are identical to Taldans and really always have been; they've been traditionally treated as their own ethnicity mostly due to the fact that their government is diabolic, which is a weird reason to do that. Especially since that didn't hold true for the nation pre-Age of Lost Omens. (Note that they don't even have their own ethnic language.) So with the new edition, we're adjusting that to include them under the umbrella of the Taldan ethnicity.

Never mind that Chelish and Taldan culture are radically different even before the Age of Lost Omens. Is the only thing binding them the color of their skin (Chelish already tend toward the pale side)?

And their language? If we run that backwards, your ethnicity is just what languages you speak.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
chibikami wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:

Here you go

From this post
James Jacobs wrote:

This is a correction we're looking to make that is in many ways long overdue to the world.

Ethnically, Chelaxians are identical to Taldans and really always have been; they've been traditionally treated as their own ethnicity mostly due to the fact that their government is diabolic, which is a weird reason to do that. Especially since that didn't hold true for the nation pre-Age of Lost Omens. (Note that they don't even have their own ethnic language.) So with the new edition, we're adjusting that to include them under the umbrella of the Taldan ethnicity.

Never mind that Chelish and Taldan culture are radically different even before the Age of Lost Omens. Is the only thing binding them the color of their skin (Chelish already tend toward the pale side)?

And their language? If we run that backwards, your ethnicity is just what languages you speak.

I quoted from JJs own book and he said it was being retconned and was something incorrect from before.

Despite Taldans looking Mediterranean/Sicillian/brown European. And now essentially one of the two people's gets erased as their own ethnicity.

I'm going to be 100% houseruling the Chelish as their own ethnicity.


chibikami wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:

Here you go

From this post
James Jacobs wrote:

This is a correction we're looking to make that is in many ways long overdue to the world.

Ethnically, Chelaxians are identical to Taldans and really always have been; they've been traditionally treated as their own ethnicity mostly due to the fact that their government is diabolic, which is a weird reason to do that. Especially since that didn't hold true for the nation pre-Age of Lost Omens. (Note that they don't even have their own ethnic language.) So with the new edition, we're adjusting that to include them under the umbrella of the Taldan ethnicity.

Never mind that Chelish and Taldan culture are radically different even before the Age of Lost Omens. Is the only thing binding them the color of their skin (Chelish already tend toward the pale side)?

And their language? If we run that backwards, your ethnicity is just what languages you speak.

that totally depends on how you define ethnicity, look at real world examples to understand what I mean.

Dark Archive

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BOO! Hiss! James Jacobs, we Chelaxians have *nothing* in common with those inbred perfumed Taldan fools! Withdraw your laughable comments and apologise to our Great Nation and the Blessed Majestrix, or suffer the Asmodean Curse of Ever-Soiled Pants!


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I like that the rulebook does not uncritically present Chelaxian propaganda. Chellish people think that they are their own special thing; they are also wrong.


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What did someone else say? "Chelaxians are just Taldans with notions"?

From the old Pathfinder Campaign Setting book from 2008:

Quote:
The Chelaxian people come from the merging of two different people: the ancient Azlanti, whose blood they proudly claim, still runs strongest in modern Chelaxians, and the northern Ulfen. They tend towards dark eyes, dark hair and pale skin. Their pale skin is the main difference between Chelaxians and their Taldan rivals, who also claim descent from the ancient Azlanti.

Sounds about as distinctive as, say, Italians from the Irish.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
RangerWickett wrote:

What did someone else say? "Chelaxians are just Taldans with notions"?

From the old Pathfinder Campaign Setting book from 2008:

Quote:
The Chelaxian people come from the merging of two different people: the ancient Azlanti, whose blood they proudly claim, still runs strongest in modern Chelaxians, and the northern Ulfen. They tend towards dark eyes, dark hair and pale skin. Their pale skin is the main difference between Chelaxians and their Taldan rivals, who also claim descent from the ancient Azlanti.
Sounds about as distinctive as, say, Italians from the Irish.

Ehhhhhhh.... the Azlanti/Ulfen thing has been dead and buried for quite a while now...

Ever since Cheliax became codified as a breakaway chunk of the Taldan Empire, keeping the same primary religion (prior to Aroden's death anyway), same language, claims to the same lofty origins...

This is where traipsing around culture and ethnicity gets weird- not helped by the fact that Taldans were... basically absent from the first five years or so of Pathfinder publications.


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Still think that ethnicities should not be included in the CRB for PF2 (they're just a little TOO setting specific), but rather saved for the updated campaign/setting book(s).

After all, none of the other ancestries (elf & dwarf in particular) include their different 'ethnicities'.
And it could lead to certain incongruencies about the core assumptions of the game (but not the setting itself).

For example - languages: Taldane is equated with Common, but this would only be true in the Inner Sea Reagion; in Tian Xia, Common would be Tien (& - presumably - Common would be Kellish in Casmaron, Vudrani in Vudra, etc.).

Also, at least one of the listed 'ethnicities' (Tian) is really a lumping of several different ethnicities... (The case for Mwangi is a little ambiguous as written.)

Just my thoughts on it, 'though.

<shrug>

Carry on -- I guess.

--C

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
RangerWickett wrote:
From the old Pathfinder Campaign Setting book from 2008:

Old as in 2 Editions ago. The Campaign Setting Book was made for DND 3.5


Perhaps a footnote could be added making Infernal a common language for natives of Cheliax.

Scarab Sages

chibikami wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:

Here you go

From this post
James Jacobs wrote:

This is a correction we're looking to make that is in many ways long overdue to the world.

Ethnically, Chelaxians are identical to Taldans and really always have been; they've been traditionally treated as their own ethnicity mostly due to the fact that their government is diabolic, which is a weird reason to do that. Especially since that didn't hold true for the nation pre-Age of Lost Omens. (Note that they don't even have their own ethnic language.) So with the new edition, we're adjusting that to include them under the umbrella of the Taldan ethnicity.

Never mind that Chelish and Taldan culture are radically different even before the Age of Lost Omens. Is the only thing binding them the color of their skin (Chelish already tend toward the pale side)?

And their language? If we run that backwards, your ethnicity is just what languages you speak.

I'm pretty sure those considered Chelish in PF1 were the people that colonized it during Taldor's Exploration of the world. So Chelish heritage is literally Taldan.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

The main issue here is the drastic PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES in appearances between Taldans and Chelaxians. From a basic standpoint, it doesn't make sense to call them the same ETHNICITY. In the real world, it would be like referring to Spanish people as the same ethnicity as the Mestizo people. Despite sharing a common language, ancestry, and some genetic traits, both location and blending with other cultures caused significant differences to who they are as a culture, and an ethnicity. Complexion, dialect, and culture are completely different.

Cheliax and Taldor are quite similar, imho.

Dark Archive

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I like that the rulebook does not uncritically present Chelaxian propaganda. Chellish people think that they are their own special thing; they are also wrong.

I do not know what propaganda you're referring to, but it's a widely recognised FACT that our Glorious Empire, blessed by Almighty Asmodeus Himself, outshines even the fabled Azlant! Truth be told, Chelaxians should get their own *ANCESTRY* entry in the book, replacing those laughable goblins! But I realize it would be unfair, since everybody would play only Chelaxians, who are supreme to all other "ancestries" in every respect!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Virellius wrote:

The main issue here is the drastic PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES in appearances between Taldans and Chelaxians. From a basic standpoint, it doesn't make sense to call them the same ETHNICITY. In the real world, it would be like referring to Spanish people as the same ethnicity as the Mestizo people. Despite sharing a common language, ancestry, and some genetic traits, both location and blending with other cultures caused significant differences to who they are as a culture, and an ethnicity. Complexion, dialect, and culture are completely different.

Cheliax and Taldor are quite similar, imho.

I don't think Chelaxians and Taldans are all that distinct -- the physical difference seems to be comparable to the difference between Spaniards and Greeks, based on their real world geographical counterparts.

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