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James Jacobs has mentioned several times that the 12th iconic will be a multi-class fighter/sorcerer.

Sorry to be the one to crush your dreams.

did he actually say that the 12th iconic will be a multiclass character? because I got the impression that it will be a new base-class created for the PRPG that will be a combination of fighter and sorcerer, like the Duskblade from the PHB II.

This still doesn't stop the orcs from doing coup de gras since the target is flat-footed, won't do any attacks of opportunity, and is in fact immobile.

Honestly, no matter what the rules might say, being pinned seems very much like helpless to me.

the definition of pinned in the SRD states explicitly that pinned is: Held immobile (but not helpless) in a grapple.

the definition of pinned in PRPG does not state that the character is in a helpless condition (which must be present in order for the character to be coup de graced). This is not a matter of opinion. It is simply a fact of the rules that a creature must be helpless in order to be coup de graced. Neither version of pinned is considered helpless. Therefore creatures can not be coup de graced while pinned.

When you are helpless, your dexterity is considered to be 0, not just flat-footed. When you are helpless, you can only take mental actions (unless you are unconscious), whereas when pinned you can take physical actions such as "escape the pin".

Until either version of pinned specifies that the pinned creature is helpless, there isn't a basis for claiming that a pinned creature can be coup de graced.

Yes, it is. The point is, it'd be cooler to have a "pet" that would automatically improve as you got to higher levels.

yeah well it would be pretty cool for fighters to be able to summon a giant sword that bursts up through the ground and kill people, but not everything is a good idea just because it's cool. Take 4th edition for example.

lets see here... animate dead, spell level 4, required caster level 7...

4x7x25=700 gp

What level does a wizard usually have 700 gp at? 2? is it really so totally hard to wait one level to get your first zombie?

The very definition of species is the ability to reproduce. Essentially, then orcs, elves and humans are the same species, why then, can we not have an orc/elf combination?

we do. they're called humans.

There seems to be a set of spells that must be taken to be able to avoid most of the monster special abilities.Freedom of movement,Death ward,protection from evil,and a few others.A Pc can become all but immune to most effects.Maybe having the spell caster lvl effect vs the creatures HD.Some times I just cant see pro vs evil a 2nd lvl spell stopping the Vampire lord who has lived for 1000 years from dominating someone.Or a 4th lvl spell FoM stopping the Kracken from grabbing you.Mostly I like these spells and rules but sometimes they seem to just nerf the encounter.

you are forgetting something regarding protection from evil, however. It only lasts minutes per level AND it doesn't stop the vampire from dominating someone at all. It only supresses the control for the duration of the spell. If someone fails their will save versus a charm or dominate while under the protection spell, they are still charmed or dominated, but the while the protection spell lasts, the charm or dominate has no effect. As soon as the spell ends, the dominate is back on and the vampire is fully aware of it.

I'm curious to know if the multiple attackers were using the aid another action during their grapples, or if they were all trying to grapple individually? It would seem to me that having 3 buddies giving you a +6 to your grapple check would be more effective than having them all try to hold on their own.

If these were all individual grapples, could you post some playtest results for them using the aid another action?

I have a feeling the Paizo guys wanted to see this action used more in their rules.

you cannot use Aid Another to assist a grapple because a grapple check is neither an attack, nor a skill check. It is a grapple check which is its own type of check.

From the SRD:

Aid Another with a Skill Check:

Aid Another in Combat:

A pined opponent is considered helpless. If I was running thos orcs I would have them commit to a coup de gras when they managed to pin the fighter.

Pinned characters are not considered helpless. Not according to the pathfinder rules, nor according to the SRD:

From the SRD: When an opponent has pinned you, you are held immobile (but not helpless) for 1 round.

From the Pathfinder rules: ...the target is pinned and can take no actions except to attempt to break the grapple or actions that require only speech or thought (such as casting a spell with only verbal components). The target cannot cast spells or use spell-like abilities without succeeding on a Spellcraft check. The target takes a –5 penalty on checks made to break the grapple.If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver roll or Escape Artist check (DC 10 + opponent’s CMB). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Grappling creatures take a –2 penalty to their Dexterity unless involved in a pin. Pinned creatures (both the grappler and the target) are considered flat-footed.

Three rounds in, my wife's scout character, the only one with spring attack, zipped all the way in with her +30 ft of movement from the wizard's haste and whacked the ooze with the blunt end of her spell-storing guisarme, unleashing the stored 11th level scorching ray the wizard puts in there for her once a day. 12d6 of fire damage and some blunt damage, and then she moved back out of the pudding's 20 foot reach. She could have gone back again in round 6, but without the +12d6 of damage, she didn't see it as having merit with the -4 nonproficiency and the meager damage of the blunt end of the guisarme. But she could have.

My comment here has completely nothing to do with playtesting combat feats, but just as an FYI, you can't put scorching ray into a spell-storing weapon. Spell-storing specifies that the spell placed into the spell-storing weapon must be a "targeted" spell, meaning that it must have a "target" entry in the description, such as "Target: One living creature". Scorching Ray has an "effect", but no "target". There are, in fact, very few directly-damaging spells that have a target.

What is interesting is how well the two polls mirror each other at this point. It would tend to make one think that this could well be the actual breakdown of the hobby at the moment and not just the attitude of Paizo regulars. Approximately 50% are committed to sticking with the older edition. 20% are gung ho for the new and the rest are caught in between.

even more hilarious is that this poll almost exactly mirrors my game groups. In each of my 3 game groups of 5 people there are 3 people who think 4e is terrible and won't switch, 1 person who doesn't care, and 1 person who thinks it sounds great.

I'd feel all the money I'd saved in 5 years of not buying anything made by WotC.

If it's not already taken, can I be the insufferable preppy jerk who is supposedly unstoppable at the new rules (fixed, naturally) and mocks your and Daigle's arrogance to think you could even compete with me, only to be utterly and resoundingly defeated after a suitably climactic round of competition?

"I love 4th Edition.... its so bad."

"Yeah well, just keep your 4th Edition off my campaign world huh pal?"

I'm not sure just giving Toughness several times is a good solution to the problem of having too few hit points for the creature type. It solves the problem, but I think it is too clunky and that is makes the Hit Dice of the fey meaningless.

Also, what is it's reach? It says 10 ft. but right next to it the space it is given is that of a huge creature. One more thing, I believe that nearly all fey get dr X/cold iron.

Edit: Sorry,...

some of the numbers were wierd because I just copied and pasted the format of a random monster from the srd, then filled in the appropriate numbers, but I missed a few changes. I went back and fixed them.

as for cold iron, feys dont have DR to cold iron listed as a trait, so nothing says they must have it. Pretty much all of them do I think, but they dont HAVE to.

giving bonus feats to a creature is totally legitmate and tons of the MM monsters have bonus feats. In fact the zombie has toughness as a bonus feat

Certainly I never really trued to make Fey Brutes as clearly a d6 for hps made that problematic.

whoever it was that first considered this as "problematic" certainly wasn't very creative. Here's a completely legitimate CR 1 fey brute using the rules of 3.5. Lets see how long it takes me to make... 4:00 pm now.... GO!

Fey Brute Thing from Somewhere or Something

Size/Type: Medium Fey
Hit Dice: 2d6+17 (24)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares),
Armor Class: 16 (-1 dex, +7 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+6
Attack: Claw +6 (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +6 (1d6+5)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +3
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 8, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 11, Cha 9
Skills: Jump +10, Climb +10, Survival +5
Feats: Toughness, Toughness (b), Toughness (b),
Environment: i dunno, fairyland I guess
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: 3-6 (medium), 6-10 (large)
Level Adjustment: -

Super Tough: Fey Brute Things from Somewhere or Something gain toughness x2 as bonus feats

There. Its 4:10. took me 10 minutes to make a fey brute from scratch. Was that really so hard? No wierd "cascading" effects that certain designers like to harp about. If only they actually knew the tools that 3.5 gives them to make monsters, maybe they wouldn't end up looking uninformed in their articles on why 4e is so great

I'm here! Did i miss anything?

I never thought I'd say this but I'm with crosswiredmind here .

Hurray, I'm bringing unity to the boards! :)

I know! And then seekerofshadowlight did too! I thought it was bold and original the first time I saw it, but it just keeps getting better and better with every post!

now you try! join the online sensation! its easy and fun!

See, this is funny because he found a thread that asked people what they liked about 4e, and instead spent it talking about how much he hates 4e. Genius!

if you think that's funny you should read my post! I completely flouted all of the original posters intentions and regulations in order to create a masterpiece of pure comedy gold!!!

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