begalund's page

*Casts mythic resurrect thread*

Ahem, druid with the goliath template (can shapeshift into giant type)

Decides to become a frost giant (because why not, although fire giant is just as good). Goes through mythic scenario path and gets mythic tier. Yay! Takes Mythic Wild Shape (Frost Giant) so she can stay as a Frost Giant round the clock (specifically doesn't count against her uses of wild shape.

Gains a couple of mythic tiers and decides to take Path Wild Shape.

Can now turn four other party members into frost giants. And since it only ends when the druid shifts to another form or ends her own wild shape, they can stay as frost giants round the clock as well. Hrm.

Party now consists of

Frost Giant Sorcerer
Frost Giant Cavalier/Paladin
Frost Giant Warpriest
Frost Giant Slayer
Frost Giant Druid/Monk

Things aren't lasting very long. And no worries about min/maxing with specific armor or weapons, high end feat combos, building to 20th level or anything exciting like that. We're 10th level, and I took two mythic feats - both allowed under my path.

(now I did build the rest of the character with a nice topping of cheese - hence the monk levels, monastic legacy, etc., but all that is required for the mythic breaking is one druid template and two feats.)

It was Living Greyhawk. I had a toad. He was named Frog. My little sorcerer was just a bit confused. He gave me nothing but +3 hp. And even then I had to be carrying him or otherwise having him nearby. He usually wasn't. I kept sticking him on other party member's helmets. Not because I wanted to keep track of them (I didn't have any special spells for that - although I did have the general familiar link of course), not because I could use him as a focus for distant spell casting (didn't have any of those kind of spells either). I just though it was funny.

"Frog" was typically less than amused, but often preferred their company to mine. At least they didn't try to drown him in a big beer stein filled with water. I really did think he was a frog, thus an amphibian, and therefore needed to be wetted down periodically.

Would it help explain anything if I said my character was a halfing sorcerer, priest, geomancer, and worshiper of Zagyg. Three feet tall, zebra-striped, claws, and healing worked in reverse on him. He actually had more hps than most fighter types at my tables (maxed out Con plus lots of Con items and the old sorcerer dragon feats), and told everyone he met he was an unemployed potato farmer?

Assuming they stuck around long enough to have a conversation with whatever "that black and white striped thing was!"

It took my local gaming group almost 6 years before they caught the joke that I had made this character to "buy the farm" and yet somehow he never died. And I really, really tried. Neither did Frog btw - in case anyone is curious.

For natural attacks serving as secondary attacks (for all characters - including those in wildshape form) I refer you to this:
http://taking10.blogspot.com/2016/03/natural-attacks-can-turn-your.html
All animals, humans, etc. have the ability to make unarmed strikes. Just most never would since they have better natural attacks and don't have the imp. UAS feat.

But as a monk, this character does. So I'm going to take advantage of it.

As for Feral combat training:

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.

Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

I'm not taking any feats that augment my natural attacks that have imp UAS as a pre-req, so that part isn't needed, and the special is of no benefit since you specifically cannot flurry and gain anything from secondary attacks. It's one or the other.

Now you do raise a valid concern about the point of the archetype being able to turn into large (giant) humanoids with all of their benefits and spellcasting too.

And she will be. She'll be in giant form most of the time - or at least as often as she can be based on her level and WS ability. She'll be wearing armor, using magic weapons, casting buff spells, and throwing rocks to take advantage of her Opening Volley feat.

But when it's time to go in and make things bloody, I can't make the physical damage output of the giant beat that of the dinosaur form. At least not without looking at amazing equipment - and that's a variable I don't have control over. Heck, I don't even have control over how many rounds of pre-buff spells I have.
Longstrider? likely
Magic Fang? probably
Barkskin? maybe
anything else - situational or based on other party members. So I never plan on anything but what I know I'll have up at the start of my initiative on round 1.

Finally, Multiattack makes it so that all of her secondary attacks are at -2 rather than -5 to hit. Which is helpful considering they are almost half of her total attacks in a round (both the bite and the claw count as secondary, and it's very nice if the bite hits on that first pounce attack sequence).

First off, let me thank @Imbicatus for pointing out a couple of errors I made in my other thread. Rather than clutter things by having people start off with the same bad assumptions, we'll start over:

Chara begins play @ 3rd, through backstory she is:
Goliath Druid 1, Barbarian 1, MA Monk 1
stats: 17,14,14,12,14,7
feats:extra rage, boon companion; traits: giant ambivalence, stolen fury
(almost all of these are story driven)

Current plan:
continue druid until 10 (so B1,M1,D8), all stat bumps in Str
feats: opening volley (5), shaping focus (7), multiattack (9)

Then start adding ranger levels until 20, stats bumps cont. in Str
feats: shapeshifting hunter (11), nat weap style and imp nat att (ranger 2 @ 12), dragon style (13), dragon ferocity (15), imp nat attack (16) ...

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I actually haven't planned out level 17 and up. The two Imp Nat Att are on two different forms. The first is for her primary combat form and will be her Allosaurus rakes, with the second being on her Frost Giant back up caster form slams (just in case).

While she won't be using flurry often (hence no feral combat training) she can still pounce into combat get her primary UA strikes off, and still bite, claw, rake, rake (not to mention the likely haste attack as well).

Damage potential should stay viable throughout her career, with the possibility of both flurry and tons of rage rounds (12 per day min). Looking over the calcs I've made, with no particular buffs up besides rage, I think I get the following for her Combat Form @13th level:

Unarmed strike +18/13 (bab +10, str 30=+10, huge -2) 2d6 +10
(except on pounce assuming first attack hits, that one is +15 on damage)
Bite +16 (all above, -2 secondary nat att) 2d6 +5 plus grab
Claws +16 (as per bite) 2d6 +5
Rake x2 +18 (not a secondary attack, so as per UAS) 2d6 +10 (each)

Obviously the numbers improve as she levels up. I could swap out a level or two of ranger for another level of barb and/or monk , but I don't see them adding that much.

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So anyone see anything wrong? Any improvements? Any thoughts?

Noted on the quarterstaffs and the slams. I found that ruling about 2 hours after I put up the OP. So I definitely agree with you there. As for the 4-armed FG, unfortunately it comes straight out of HL (hero lab).

Admittedly I did activate the Kingmaker campaign since that was the campaign we had played in earlier, and it was listed as an available WS form when I was scaling up. Frankly, I'm looking to find flaws, since I know HL isn't perfect.

In any event, I'm now looking to tweak using just unarmed strike and slam attacks together - since those do stack, and I've already gotten the ruling that I'd be able to both cast and speak in giant form without the wild feats (benefit of the archetype).

So making the assumption it's out for the moment, but all of the other giant-types are in, where would we go with this concept?

Okay, I know there have been many (many) variations on the wild shaping based druid builds. I'm aiming for something that hits as hard as possible, and uses a few cheese options - but is also built around a specific concept. We've already started the campaign so some things are set in stone, but I'll be able to change my higher level concepts as we progress. And please forgive any forum shortcuts I miss.

So currently stats are 17,14,14,12,14,7
Barbarian 1, Druid (Goliath Druid) 1, Monk (Martial Artist) 1

Traits: Giant Ambivalence, Stolen Fury
Feats: Extra Rage (1st), Warrior Priest (3rd)

This is how things are at present. My plan is as follows:

Levels 4-8 as Druid (all stat boosts in str)
Feats: Iron Will (5), Shaping Focus (7)

Levels 9- as Ranger (Shapeshifter) cont. in str, combat style Nat. Weap
Feats: Dragon Style (9), Dragon Ferocity (11)

This is as far as I have it planned out. Tell me if I'm missing something obvious, but I think I can get the following:

Wild shape (4-armed frost giant), allowing the use of two quarterstaves at once. Both can be self enchanted with shillelagh. Since these are just poles of appropriate size, they do 3d6 each (plus str bonus)

Rage, plus greater magic fang (lasts 1hr/level) on slam (giant's natural attack), plus ranger imp nat att on slam, and I think the slam is 2d6 each.

I calc the strength to be 27 (31 with bull's str self cast). So I think (unless I missed something):

Quarterstaff #1 +17/+12 3d6+16
QS #2 +17/+12 3d6+16
Slam x4 +8/+8/+8/+8 2d6+7

(since you can't flurry and get natural attacks, and I don't have multi attack yet) I took the Dragon-style feats for this build because my speed is 60 (with longstrider up) or 70 in Allosaurus form (which gets pounce and a whole different set of nasty attacks).

So feel free to hack away. I want to see what you all can do with it. Keep in mind I'm not relying on any magic items, and the first three classes (and associated feats) are already in play.