be_moore's page

Thanks for any input. I'm starting Pathfinder Core tonight, first time player. Starting as a level 8 character (7 Ranger and 1 Rogue). Wondering what items I should think about having? Playing as a switch-hitter ranger with the level of rogue because the group needs a trap finder.

This is what I think I need:
Breastplate (mithril if available, masterwork if not)
Composite Longbow with a +Str bonus (masterwork?)
Falchion (Adamantine? Masterwork?)
Arrows (just regular)
Thieves tools (masterwork)
Some +stat items? (if available)

Basically, just want some suggestions on useful items, things or upgrades I may have missed (like Darkwood for the bow?). Thanks!

Edit: I also know that a lot of things (like how much monies I have to spend, and what items are available at level 8 character creation) are at the GM's discretion. I'm mostly just looking for things that I should think about getting if they are available. As a new player, I'm sure there are very obvious items that I just don't know about.

@be moore: yes try the d20pfsrd, I use it most of the time.

Are those items only crafted? Or can they be bought outright?

Another question, at level 8, what is going to be the AC range of creatures I'm fighting?

Thanks all for the responses, that clears it up. I was assuming the rapid shot used the second attack bonus for both shots, but it makes sense that it would use the first attack bonus for one of them. Now comes the time for serious number crunching about when using Deadly aim, Manyshot, and rapid shot is viable, and when the best option is to only use deadly aim, manyshot, and standard attack.

I highly suggest getting an Adaptive Composite Bow. That way you don't have to get a new bow if your STR goes up or down for any reason. It's a very cheap enhancement, especially for a level 8 PC

Good suggestion, thanks! Is there a place that I can see all available items with enhancements? Looking at the PRD items guide is sort of confusing and typically only lists base items. So it would be nice to see what is actually available at what cost at a given level. If there is such a resource, I need it for core. Thanks!

Ah, so the Rapid Shot penalty has to apply to all of the attacks, including the ones that precede rapid shot?

In that case, then if I Deadly Aim then Manyshot, but no rapid shot, my wall of arrows now looks like:

+7(two arrows),+2 (standard attack). So two attacks, 3 arrows?

Also, about your sequence: +5 (manyshot 2 arrows)/+0/+5...why is there a +5 at the end? Doesn't rapid shot (the last two attacks) count as my "second" attack, and therefore both arrows use the second attack BAB of +0?

So, I'm just starting out and will be joining a group and rolling at level 8.

For a full ranged attack, can I Deadly Aim (-2 attack, +4dmg each attack), Manyshot (2 attacks with no hit penalty), then Rapid Shot (-2 to all attacks, so 2 more attacks at a now -4 penalty)? For a total of 4 arrows from two attacks that I get for having a BAB >6?

With an assumed Ranged BAB of +9/+4, for manyshot I'd see a +7/+2 for 2 shots, then for rapid shot this would be further reduced to +0 for my next two shots?

Also, I'm assuming that I can't just use manyshot twice in a full attack round?

Thanks for entertaining my newbie questions!

Edit: Follow up question. Is sneak attack damage added to every attack made during a full attack? I ask because with 1 level of rogue (skills, roleplay) I get +1d6 sneak attack damage, so does that add to both attacks of a full attack (provided that I'm flanking, ofc)?

Personally I always want to be useful, which is the point of optimization in the first place.

Rogues are only variably useful, I've found that rangers are pretty much always useful.

Switch hitting is the ideal way to play for the multitude of options (and lack of ability to fly without multi-classing). But depending on stat allotment it may not be ideal, what are the parameters for character creation? That is also a significant factor in how much you can do with certain character concepts.

Yeah, I see this being a potential issue. I've emailed him to figure out how stats are generated, but don't know yet. I figure that if it's a purely random generation and my str sucks I may go rogue if my dex is decent (or just an archer ranger), or bard if my charisma is high. Backup plans.

One thing I would like to encourage you to remember, along with getting along with the group, you have to get along with your character.

If you're looking at multiple options, err in favor of what you'll enjoy more. It'll help your team mates too, because you'll enjoy yourself more and be more involved in the game. :)

This point is extremely valid. For me, I'm more about knowing my role and learning to do it well. I don't really care what the roll is. I think that comes from my days of extensive WoW playing where I was often the class that others didn't want (tank or healer, usually) which was fine because I above all else want to be useful. Thanks for the tip!

Ranger X/Rogue 3 or 4... (4 gets you an extra rogue talent, but sacrifices a ranger level. Both get you trap-finding, 2d6 of sneak, and evasion...)

Wait, taking a rogue level gives me sneak attack...why doesn't Treant include this in his switch hitter build? It seems like it would be worth getting 1 level of rogue because an extra 1d6 dmg while flanking is nothing to laugh at. EDIT: Rereading the guide he does say a single level of rogue is not a terrible idea, but that 20 of ranger is better. I suppose this depends on if I plan on getting to level 20 ever. Taking a level of rogue is probably a good plan for me because I doubt 20 is achievable

As far as levels, I don't know yet. I'm not sure how far into their game they are.

You mentioned a combat heavy game, so I suggested Ranger. In a more balanced game, then Rogue is fine. I know they do fine in my games.

I like your suggestion. Switch hitter gives me both ranged and melee capability. As a ranger, I can still sneak to scout, just lose being the face (which is minimal utility in this game) and lose trap disarming (which is probably also of minimal utility). But I gain versatility in combat, which since its combat oriented is probably key.

I mostly just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something that I was overlooking majorly, and it doesn't really appear to be so. Thanks for the advice!

If you need someone with disable device, and you need it to be crb only, rogue is the only option.

As someone else mentioned above, would a DM of a group that couldn't disable traps actually put a lot of traps in their dungeon? It seems like the DM should put at least some thought into tailoring the experience to the group unless the objective was to convince the group to change their makeup. Which I don't know that my future DM would do, considering that I'm joining because someone else is leaving and they want to keep a 5-player party, bu the person leaving is a fighter (so even before me, no one could really handle traps well).

Edit: But on that note, a rogue with disable traps and high perception and thieves tools would also give the DM more flexibility for designing scenarios, since he wouldn't be limited by group makeup as much. So one plus for me picking a rogue over an archer would be to make the DM's job more fun.

Bards are great as support characters...you might be surprised...but that said...see all the responses that say rogue? They are nowhere near as bad as their reputation. I'm not saying 'Play a rogue'...but you asked what would compliment the group...and you seem to have an interest in rogues. What I'm really getting it is...play a rogue if you want to. All the nonsense about them being horrible is precisely that...nonsense. Rogues STILL fulfill their niche like no other class does.

Rogue does seem interesting, just less interesting knowing that most of the time is in combat. It seems like rogues would really shine in a more social environment where using SoH to hide weapons and generally be on the ready to assassinate an NPC (or at least initiate combat from stealth) could be a priority. It seems like in a combat oriented situation, the high skills are of much less use. I'm sure I could make it work especially since I'm fairly conscientious of things like positioning to keep flanking to get sneak attacks in, but it still seems sub-optimal especially compared to a switch-hitter ranger that can attack at range and then be ready to go in with a 2Her. Unfortunately, it just seems like the rogues versatility is decreased a lot in a combat-mostly scenario where at that point he just becomes a less-than-optimal damage dealer that is very positioning and situation dependent to really shine.

That being said, this is just the impression I'm getting.

That party needs a meat shield badly.

Is the Paladin not a good enough meat shield? A lot of recommendations for the switch-hitter ranger build, which seems reasonable.

Can someone explain what the bard is actually good for? A lot of those buffs just seem pretty meh at best, at least in the lower levels. I don't know what level I'll be rolling at yet, but the low level bard seems fairly underwhelming.

To the OP: If your edit window is still open maybe you should bold "Core Only" in your OP. Apparently the majority of replies missed it.

Unfortunately it looks like I can't edit it anymore (not clear on the rules, this is my first posting).

Does core-only mean no archetypes? I've been reading the d20pfsrd site quite a bit and have figured that there are tons of races and classes that don't apply, but I've not figured out how archetypes fit into that mix. Thanks!

So, since a rogue is not that strong, perhaps a Ranger? And attempt to find an archetype that makes them more rogue-like, put some points in stealth and disable device?

Or a rogue. Rogues are awesome at tactical combat. Keep your Acrobatics high and be the paladin's flank buddy and all that sneak attack damage is just the cat's bananas.

But under no circumstances should you be a rogue. They suck in Pathfinder.

So depressing, because that xtra d6 sneak damage seems so boss when you can use acrobatics and keep a flank up. Sad that they're terrible.

From their GM, this is what they said about the classes he has, though it seems a bit vague: "Roles: Druid - utilitarian spell casting and some direct damage, Paladin - hybrid fighter/cleric/tank, Cleric - mix of healing, buffs and some direct damage, wizard - well rounded spellcaster"

So I'm joining an established game (Core game). Currently they have a Druid, Paladin, Wizard, and Cleric. I know that their game is very combat heavy dungeon crawling with some social role play and story, but is mostly tactical combat oriented.

My initial thought was rogue, but it seems like there is a lot of rogue hate going on in this edition. Which is too bad. So my next thoughts become 2H fighter or some sort of ranged class, like the Zen Monk Archer or Fighter Archer, or even just an Archer. Of course, I hear decent things about bards as well.

So what should I roll, based on what they already have? Full disclosure, this will be my first table-top toon in a looonnng time, but as a player I tend to be very tactical and enjoy min-maxing and trying to find the perfect strategy to fit the situation. Thanks for any advice!

Edit: Added the fact that this is a Core game.