Does furyborn enhancement bonus increase allow damage bypass as fixed bonus would? As it doesnt havent the same ruling out as as magic fang and magic weapon spell.
I´ve seen some say that Furyborn isn´t worth, as if you need more than 3 hits to take some enemy down you are doing something wrong, what do you guys think?
I once was attempting a grapple and triggered an AoO, the enemy hit me and my GM said I failed my attempt of grapple because of that, but I haven´t found anywhere what happens when you get hit by an AoO when attempting grapple, with magic it´s explicit.
Does anyone know where I can find the consequences for a whole array of AoO?
@ astura- I don't have the ARG, so I can't really give you advice on the particulars. I would say at this point, either would be fine. Just go with your gut or with your preference.
Decided to avoid the paragon surge, my GM would kill me if I used it haha.Going throught focused study, 2 "free" skill focus.
If your GM allows it, sure. I thought that since it was from the ARG it would be out of the list of your approved sources.
It would turn you into a more versatile character. It also wouldn't change your build much, you could just take your Skill Focus at first level instead of 9th or so.
ARG was added 1 day ago, I was unsure cause I could use human focused mind, for 2 extra skill focus, besides off-setting the less known spells is hard.
Considering how many monster have resistance 10 (or higher) or are immune to fire, I would try to make it fit in your build (and there are numerous monsters with the same defensive abilities for ...
Ruyan.
What do you mean exactly making them fit in my build? As for your advice, we are not playing a set campaign, so it´s random whether we´ll find resistant monster or not, I just hope my GM don´t make them common if I manage to get well at killing them LOL.
I did a search and it´s true, there are more fire spells than other types. Something like 34[fire] against 21[cold] in the best case, so gold it is. Fire snake is indeed a good canditate for the spell perfection.
Just pondering about elemental spell now.
Thanks.
I really like copper (for when there's not enough room for flying) or black. Consider taking Noxious Bite as feat if going for acid based dragon and if allowed.
For weapon I'd go with longspear. Gives you reach and you don't have to burn another feat for proficiency. Start fighting enlarged and brace it for the occasion you're charged at. Drop it and bare your fangs/claws for a nasty surprise.
I'd also consider taking sorc until lvl 6 for 3rd level spells right away. In addition your BAB progression will not be hindered even more.
Ruyan.
Greetings, Ruyan.
I did read Oterisk guide, it´s quite good by the way. Sadly the noxious bite is out of my allowed sources, otherwise would have taken it. I chose green because I think cone is indeed better than line, but who knows might as well as rethink it.
Indeed delaying a DD level could be profitable.Thanks for the tip.
also consider building the concept with a Magus Cabalist, taking the Draconic bloodline at lvl 7
Magus can also pick some combinations of Archetypes other than Cabalist to grant it other abilities, and you can always pick the Eldritch Heritage to take a few good abilities from other bloodlines, if you want some more class skills I would suggest the new human bloodline from Advanced Races Guide, if you want a pet, then either Arcane for familiar or Sylvan for Animal Companion
this idea of yours resembles a lot one of my own, so do really look into what I suggest
Although it would be good, he won´t allow it, I gotta stick by the sources I mentioned.
wraithstrike wrote:
I would put Dazing spell in there someone.
If you are using a two handed weapon furious focus is nice also.
Hum, thought about Dazing Spell, but as I am lacking more combat oriented feats thought about other than metamagic, still figuring which weapon I am going to choose, but it´s a nice suggestion the furios focus.
Hum, I was wondering does the Magic Fang imbues one hand or other part, or does it imbues all monk´s unarmed attacks? Does anyone know for sure? A reference would be good as well.
Hum, I was wondering does the Magic Fang imbues one hand or other part, or does it imbues all monk´s unarmed attacks? Does anyone know for sure? A reference would be good as well.
Thanks in advance.
I couldn´t make sense of this witch hex, how does it work exactly, does it grant bane to an the closest ally with the highest iniciative against a will failed monster in range?
I couldn´t make sense of this witch hex, how does it work exactly, does it grant bane to an the closest ally with the highest iniciative against a will failed monster in range?
The efficient quiver works wonders for hauling coin and gem loot, too.
You're an archer. Why do you need to haul around extra staves and javelins? replace those with long rods hollowed out to fit coins and gems inside them, of the appropriate length.
At ten coins per inch, a 4' 'javelin' and a 6' 'staff' can contain 480 coins and 720 coins respectively. That's 18 x 480 coins + 5 x 720 coins (I expect you stow your bow in there.)
that's 12,240 coins of storage, or 1,224 pounds of coins, for the low price of 900 gp. Note: there's no weight limit on the Efficient Quiver!
Between this, a minor bag of holding, and a haversack, I think you're set on loot hauling. If the DM only hands you 5000 gp life size statues, then I suggest a Wand of Item.
===Aelryinth
May I ask where did you take these size info from? I intend to try conving my GM to allow me to use the efficient quiver for golf carrying but I´ll need a source to "justify" the measures. Thanks in advance.
Hum, dipping 3 monks(master of many styles)levels instead of 1 could be quite better, you gain an useful bonus feat in styles and faster movement(losing improved quarry), and you qualify for monastic legacy (losing one combat style bonus feat and 4th favored terrain).
Besides, using monk´s robe, you gain +2AC instead of +1, and your final unarmed damage is 2D8 with monastic legacy, unbuffed.
Considering my group is larger now, I am considering dropping my animal companion for the spirit ranger.
The twice part is because at 9th level he gets multi-attack and gets a second bite.
AC is universally bad for this build, Learn to kill it before it kills you.
I was getting to the same point, using snake retaliation means I didn´t kill the thing in one full round. Anyway, any more feat suggestions? I was still thinking about the punishing kick and vicious stomp, as in the first round I need to activate dragon style as swift action, approach the enemy, and make one attack, I could use a punishing kick with it, and if it connects, stomp on the enemy, and then, in the second round, activate the second style, and do a full round attack, and if the enemy tried getting up, he gets an AoO from everyone around.
Hum, the wolf doens´t get a second bite attack, he simply gets at 7th level advancement an upgraded bite damage dice.
Not complicated, the feats you need to take are Power Attack, improved natural attack, weapon focus (bite), Vital strike and Improved Vital strike.
At 7th level the Wolf becomes large moving his bite attack to 1D8, Imp. Natural Attack bumps that to 2D6.
From there you either hit it with animal growth or Lead Blades bumping it to 3D6.
Vital Strike doubles that to 6D6 (or 9D6 with Improved Vital Strike).
A large sized wolf has a base strength of 22 (24 if you drop his level bumps into it) for...
I found strange the twice part after the "2D6+20 twice", but I guess you meant simply the damage dice twice.
Hum, I was thinking about using snake fang, besides armor bracelets and rinf of protection any good way of boosting AC?
Personally I'm not a fan of the Cheetah Companion (I actually only choose from the Roc or the Wolf) it gets mutiple attacks but lacks the strength or the Bab to really take advantage of it. Optimizing on this pet is all about getting it's dex as high as possible and investing in dex->hit & dex-> damage feats and items.
The Wolf is a MUCH better choice for a melee combatant. With Large size and a single attack (giving it a 1.5x str to damage bonus) with Power Attack and a high damage dice (1D8 -> 2D6 with improved natural attack) leads perfectly into a Vital Strike build.
Currently my Wolf hits for 2D6+20 twice a round and will get up to 9D6+30ish and guaranteed trip in a few more levels.
Haven't really looked at the spirit ranger so can't answer that.
Hum, could you elaborate that? I mean level progression detailed.
Daehan wrote:
I'm surprised nobody mentioned this before, but the Adopted trait does not give you access to racial traits from the actual races. It gives you access to the race traits category of traits for a particular race that you otherwise wouldn't qualify for.
The trait would be very OP if it allowed you to do that. Humans adopted by dwarves with darkvision, etc. Why get a measly +1 to a saving throw trait when you can get a +1 to all of them if you are adopted by half-orcs with sacred tattoos.
Indeed, so one can use racial heritage and razor tusk to get the bite
Nothing subjective about it for Monks, their class benefits make it so (every other class doesn't have that power). Remember treat everything as normal, then apply the changes the monk class brings (upgrade unarmed strike damage then remove off-hand penalties) then apply the Feral Combat Training feat.
Second read the rules for natural attacks, the do not suffer from any of the rules that...
That´s the point, the rules for natural attack are, without any other attack, they are full bab and strength otherwise noted, but with unarmed attack they become secondary, that "limitation" is not removed by monk and feral, Natural won´t be off-hand, they´ll just be secondary, isn´t that it?
You have to remember you are actually looking at 2 separate attack routines here, they just happen at the same time.
You have 3 natural attacks Claw/Claw/Bite which are at full BaB & strength modifier when used alone but are at bab +str mod -5 when mixed with iterative attacks.
You also have your normal iterative attacks from your BaB (1 normally and another at every point where your Bab -5 is greater than 1 {6,11,etc} ).
With the Feral combat Training feat you effectively change your selected natural attack into an unarmed strike. Now since monks do not take off-hand penalties to their unarmed strikes and use full strength bonus on those attacks it removes the secondary penalty from that selected natural attack.
With that said it takes awhile for you to get all the feats you need to apply Feral...
Hum, I knew about the feral for applying the feats that have improved unarmed strike as prerequiste,but it actually depends on GM whether considering the natural attacks as unarmed, even after the feral training, it is kinda "subjective", and even if he considers as natural attack the ruling applied shouldn´t be the iterative one?. I do agree that the strength bonus shouldn´t suffer in any case because of "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes", you could say it´s an unarmed attack augmentation for that purpose.
Then in the first attack you could use the higher bonus then the others could use the bonus from ferocity, isn´t it?
Yup, it's all about feral combat training and the level of Monk. (it's only because of the special rule on monk unarmed strike that lets feral combat training remove the secondary penalty on natural attacks).
The reason the str isn't on that attack is I got lazy and didn't write it in.
Well thanks for the info so far, but you see, getting lazy gets me confused haha, I asked a lot of times cause I have to give a full explanation to my GM when time arrives. So, could confirm then in the first attack routine, could you give a "detailed" explanation about why is the bite secondary while claw primary and there is two kicks, one with -5 penalty and in the second attack routine, he gets (BAB+STR-5) in attack bonus (of natural attacks as they are now secondary right?), and 1(no penalty due to monk)+0.5 (due to dragon ferocity)x str of damage bonus? And as I stated before, to make natural attacks the unarmed attacks should be primary, correct, is there for the first kick in the second routine (BAB+Str without penalty) for the attack bonus?
Ah another "simple" question, does the first attack 1.5x str from dragon style stack with dragon ferocity?
Hum, after reading a few pages, I got more confused haha (sorry for being such a nuisance).
In the first case you are considering claws and Kicks as primary attacks, and bite as secondary, is it because of feral combat training?
In the second case, considering you got only kick as primary and natural as secondary, why isn´t there a Bab+5 (from str) for the first kick? (I´ll assume naturals got secondary because of multiple[iterative] unarmed attacks, since before that wasn´t a problem, and if that´s the case, shouldn´t the damage bonus from natural attacks be only str, composed from 1/2 str from secondary attack and 1/2 str from dragon ferocity?)
I´ve copied the bestiary part about natural attacks below.
Natural attack:
Bestiary (pag 302)
Natural Attacks: Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on attack rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Table 3–1 lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classif ications.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
The Damage Type column refers to the sort of damage that the natural attack typically deals: bludgeoning (B), slashing (S), or piercing (P). Some attacks deal damage of more than one type, depending on the creature. In such cases all the damage is considered to be of all listed types for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Some fey, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, and outsiders do not possess natural attacks. These creatures
can make unarmed strikes, but treat them as weapons for the purpose of determining attack bonuses, and they must use the two-weapon f ighting rules when making attacks with both hands. See Table 3–1 for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.
It's a primary attack if you use it by itself or ONLY with other natural attacks. Any round where you make an attack with a manufactured weapon (or unarmed strike) the bite is shifted down to secondary with those associated penalties (look at the natural attack chapter in Beastiary 1 for the exact rules why).
Any of the styles that rely on Elemental fist are generally a bad choice for you since you won't have enough monk levels to do it more than a few times a day. I prefer styles that affect ALL my attacks every round, it's a better choce for long adventuring days.
Hum, I know what I´ve missed, it was the feral combat training at later level for bite, that´s why I thought it was strange, my bad.
Bite stays a secondary attack until you take the feat Feral Combat Training (Bite) (this treats it as an unarmed attack and monks have no penalties to their unarmed attacks).
When you mix Iterative attacks and Natural attacks all natural attacks become secondary unless you have something that removes that penalty.
As for cleaving finish I personally don't like it but if you are going to continue down the cleave line I guess it will do.
Hum, still didn´t get it, bite is a primary attack from Toothy trait, isn´t it? and in the first case, isn´t it already iterative attack mixtured with natural attack?
I´ve read about elemental fist and marid style, what do you think about them?
And about the cleave, considering that I already have it at first level (already took it, can´t change), that´s why I asked about your opinion on finishing cleave
I didn´t quite understand why in the first case bite is "secondary weapon", and why in the second case you lose strength bonus to hit.
Could you explain to me (busy lately, so not much time to look into this, but thanks for you concern and time).
By the way I could try using Cleaving Finish (Combat) to fix my cleave choice, what do you think?
BTW you do still need to teach tricks to Int 3 animals, there was a blog about what int 3 entails with regard to animal companions a while back. The int of 3 does open up the feats it can choose.
You are right, my bad http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc1y .
Ah, and an advice, the first time it gets a stat point, put it in Intelligence, to make it 3 (if it´s intelligence is 1 is a tricky choice, cause you would need two stats to increase it to 3), so it can understand you speaking, without the need to teach him tricks to attack and other alike.
In another post you said the MoMS was not good, it was about losing FoB
Quote:
If taking a monk variant I would take either MoMS, Tetori, ManuverMaster with this build. It doesnt hurt to loose FoB if you have several natural attack (hands and feet claws, bite). By taking one of those you could net a free combat maneuver at -2 with a full attack (mm), No negatives while grappling (tetori), or being able to have a couple styles up and quick access to Dragon Style feats that with feral combat training would give 2x strength on first attack and 1.5 strength on all the others. If you paired that with Tiger style, oh lord are you a nasty mommajoma.
I looked at all 3 of those archetypes and have to HIGHLY recommend you don't take them.
Giving up FoB would cost you a massive amount of damage (you only get your full strength and full power attack added to natural attacks because of FoB) and take away your ability to use your monk level as Bab. Admittedly this is only a single point since we are only going 4 levels of Monk but still, I prefer not to give up any to hit if I don't have to.
what has changed? why have you dropped the dipping of 4 monk levels?
And let´s say that my first two levels are "stuck" with what already was proposed in the first post, I mean stats, race, and feats, how can I "fix" it? (besides it´s going to take a while to shift my alignment from neutral to lawful, I guess about 2 more levels, meaning I possible can get monk by level 5, gonna try convincing my GM to allow me to multiclass).
The amulet actually doesn't help you bypass DR. As expensive as it is you should never spend the cash to make it a +3 to bypass the DR/Silver. It's far more effective to take the feat and just add either an elemental effect with the amulet (acid, fire, frost, etc) or use it to give you Vicious or Merciful instead.
Wouldn´t it be better to use bane instead of vicious or merciful?
Besides what about that versatile weapon and magic fang to bypass some damage reduction?
Two questions for you to help solidify this build:
1. What are your base traits? You didn't list the ones you get at 1st Lvl.
2. What are your first 2 Favored enemies you didn't list them either.
1. I don´t have base traits, my GM doesn´t allow base, just traits through feats
2. For my two initial FE I chose Outsider(evil) and Humanoid (Human)
Quote:
Ok let's first address a few issues in your build.[...]
Third Improved Natural Attack is a trap, it will net you on average 1 extra point of damage (1D4 =approx 2dam, 1D6 =approx3Dam), skip it.
Finally your understand of mixing natural attacks and weapon attacks is a right as below.
I´ll check if my GM will allow me to qualify for rending fury based on rending claw.
I am already sorry for that choice(cleave), but nothing more I can do about it.
Considering my bonus feats from natural style, and spells, increasing the damage HD is not that bad (with feat and spells it´s a 4 damage HD increase).
About increasing the Wis one time it´s to get a bonus 3rd level spell, so I can use Instant Enemy.
Quote:
Stay a regular Ranger and just take the natural weapons as your combat style.
Now for your build let me suggest this instead:
Monk 1(master of Many Styles)/Ranger 19
Hum, actually I am supposed to avoid multiclass, I do appreciate your detailed advice, it´s quite good, but I wonder if there is a way to make a pure ranger natural style work well then, it indeed a sad thing that the bonus from shapeshifter doesn´t stack with other magical stats enhancements.
PS: the Amulet of Mighty Fists makes Eldritch claws a mooth point
No real problems that I can see. It's a valid set of choices.
But if you're determined to be a shapeshifter, why not go with a shape-oriented Druid?
I Second that.
What is the main difference between them?
I guess I "have to go" that way, cause I already started as ranger.
Gravefiller613 wrote:
I'm going the multi attack route and a treat teh sweapons as secondar, in the military sense. Since we are focused on the claw attacks, which are primary natural attacks, the bite is a secondary attack, but is still used. An amulet of might fists will be helpful in boosting the attacks abilities. It is expensive though.
But is my initial thought about the progression correct, if you take the non natural weapon as primary?
The amulet can be expensive, but it´s less expensive than an equivalent enhanced weapon and you always have your claws and bite ready. And there is also Strong Jaw.
Ah, by the way, how would work using a one handed weapon and natural attacks, it was stated in the FAQ/Errata that one should use Bestiary rule instead of CRB, in Bestiary is stated that one should treat natural weapons as secondary in that case, so it should look like this?
Level 20 Bab 20
4 weapon attacks (20/15/10/5) with full strength
one claw and one bite attack (15) with half-strength
or just
1 weapon attack (20) full strength
one claw and one bite (15) half strength?
Hum, that´s right forgot to tell some details, it´s a human character, and I can use the following books APG, UM, UC, and the bestiarys I, II and bonus.
I don´t know it´s my browser issue but there isn´t much in the Verix the Beast, I can´t see your feats and some other details.
About the spells, I´ve thought about some combinations, like Lead Blades with Strong Jaw, 3 sizes larger in damage, the Instant Spell with the Favored Defense, it´s a good way to increase attack and defense.
Hei there,
I am currently trying to play a ranger shapeshifter.
I´ve roled this stats:
Str 19 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 15 Cha 13
Below is my advancement plan, I would like suggestions and perhaps corrections:
1 Power attack Cleave
2 Aspect of the beast:claw
3 Endurance Feat 1
4 +1 Str
5 Additional Traits(Magical Knack/Toothy)
6 Rending Claw
7 Rending Fury
8 +1 Wis
9 Improved Rending Fury
10 Improved Vital Strike
11 Favored Defense: Outsider(Evil)
12 +1 Stat
13 Feat 2
14 Improved Natural Weapon(Claw)
15 Feat 3
16 +1 Stat
17 Feat 4
18 Weapon Focus/multiattack
19 Feat 5
20 +1 Stat
what do you guys think? (the feats 1,2,3,4,5 and +1 Stat I am currently figuring what to choose)
Thanks in advance
