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I cannot seem to find anywhere a mention of a critical failure on attack rolls. This to me seems odd due to the role reversal from 1.0 and because you can take the -5 and -10 for extra attacks. Meaning there is no reason not to give it a shot if you have nothing else to do. This is especially detrimental for monsters. They just take all the penalties with no risk high reward.

Did I miss something?


Nonalyth wrote:

The key word is voluntary. Just don't do it if it bothers you.

It sounds like you're just disappointed you can't min-max anymore.

I think you misunderstand. I actually want to reduce the desire for people to min max. Making one stat the only stat needed for a build is something pathfinder seemed to try to pull away from which was very prevalent in 3.5. Here they are trying again but min maxers will always be a thing and so will power creep as new material is never as balanced as old material and new combinations become available.

The point is that paizo is stating that they still want to provide the ability to create fun and complex characters and builds which they are doing a great job at. However I think removing the ability to provide innate depth though stat adjustments may be a little to drastic. I think they should balance out the stats to make "Dumping" undesirable, which they are doing a great job at (except Int). That way you could still play the BDF because its fun but maybe an Int fighter that dumps Str would be really interesting. Not so fun if it just makes you less able to contribute than everyone else. It's more about building a unique character with strengths and flaws.


I like how they tried to make point buy easier. It was very difficult to teach new players. Almost necessary to have a automatic point buy calculator. However I too find this new system strangely limiting. Maybe offering to have a -2 in exchange for a +2 as a option once or something could fix the flaws but but it is inherently limiting to restrict this diversity. People want to play fun and atypical characters but being punished for doing so isn't very fun to me.

I have a Pathfinder 1.0 Character that is Deaf and Mute which is very challenging to play and very rewarding when done right because it is such a challenge but I cast all spells as silent which gives more something in game to compensate for the difficulties I impose on the character. It makes it fun by limiting me in some way but also giving me more options in other ways.


I too found this to be a problem, I actually thought it was underdeveloped in Pathfinder 1.0 as well (along with Cha of course and love that resonance helps to fix that) as of now I don't see a reason to ever have more than 14 int if you aren't a class that needs it. there is almost no mechanical advantage. I was hoping to see int become more necessary for other classes not less. its cool to develop classes that use atypical stats but I like there to be some mechanical advantage as well. Resonance is a great example of how Cha got fixed and any class can use it as an advantage.

Also I personally don't like how difficult it is to get a negative stat mod. its cool to play characters that have advantages and disadvantages that aren't wholly developed on ancestry. I thought 1.0 did a good job limiting this (no less than 7) while making it an option. Diversity in concepts is fun and seeing people be good at things and bad at others is neat. Which is important here because it shouldn't be the go to option but a option taken to enhance complexity of play. So if Int had some mechanic to offer it would be a harder choice.


It appears to me that the point of adding the +1 to a skill instead of gaining proficiency to a new skill, which yes numerically is better, is that with a higher level of training you have option of better feats. this provides you with more diversity like Bleys Feuerteufel mentioned above.

I do think that the spread is a little small not sure if widening the margin ever so slightly would help (-4 or-3, 0, +2, +4, +6 or 7). As I have not run things to see how the new system truly feels yet but my initial impression is the same. that "opps the new guy is better at climbing than me despite not knowing any of these techniques that I have spent most of my time studying climbing."

I understand that this is inherent in any system that relies on a random variable (dice) but it seems much more prevalent here with only a gap of 5 possible.

Advantages to this is that anyone should be able to obtain any DC which prevents the characters from having to split the party due to an obstacle that only some people can traverse and due to the new Crit system having a smaller spread means there is less crits/crit fails all the time. So again I think this is something that would be helpful to see in action. Hence the point of this play test.


Interesting, Thank you I had not explored crafting yet. That does indeed sound helpful. Not sure it will compensate but definitely sounds helpful. I look forward to seeing it in play.


This is a difficult topic and as I will come to understand more of things as the play test goes on one thing I noticed right away is how well Resonance is going to fix the Cha problem but nothing touches the Int problem.

To start Cha has been a common dump stat for a long time in many groups as far as I am aware (Pathfinder). But so too has Int. There were just no real mechanical advantages for fighter type characters to really have any of either.

The new Resonance mechanic I think really helps bring Cha to the front of everyone mind when making characters of every class which is very cool. It means you really struggle with that choice of saving throw bonus or more Resonance.

However I still find Int very underrated. Yes it gives us more trained skills and maybe a language but what does it do? There really is no mechanic for it after character creation that I can see yet for non Int focused classes. And I would really love to see something that makes everyone think "Hmm do I want more of that for my secondary stats?"

This is not an easy concept as it touches on core mechanics but I would love to see more for the intelligent Paladin and the like.

*I can already see that skills are much more powerful in this game and play testing will help but this is good food for thought.

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