Yeil's page

But... it's the only subset of the skill - the only thing it does at all.

in this case I am referring to Disguise self(or any other spells), holoskins, and using the disguise kit as separate subsets. Only one of those cases does the disguise not being properly made make any sense.

I mean, this way it's one skill check, but I'd still be up for, personally, making as many checks as it could, or take 20.

In the end, having anything means you can argue about whether or not it's appropriate to take 20.

Here I was just referring to my GM experience and watching a fun table grind to a halt as someone obsesses over getting something just right. its not really fun for the rest of the table to watch someone pondering if an 18 is enough, then throwing it out, and re-rolling 7 times to try and get a 19 or 20. The current disguise description is pretty clear that you get one roll and move on, like it or not. Full disclosure, I am totally exaggerating the numbers here to make my point, but I'm sure almost everyone here has seen this happen to a reasonable degree :)

Unless I'm mistaken, opposed rolls have never been referred to as "DCs", so I think the DC language is probably an error.

I don't know about pathfinder, but the Starfinder CRB does refer to opposed checks as a DC.

With an opposed skill check, one creature attempts a skill check to try accomplish some action or task, while another creature attempts its own skill check to determine the DC the first creature must meet or exceed to accomplish its goal.

Just one slight flaw with your interpretation.

CRB page 220, Holoskin wrote:

When you use a holoskin, you can disguise major features, race, or creature type without the DC of your Disguise check increasing, except against Perception checks that involve physical examination.

This sentence pretty well describes where those DC modifiers go. In fact, if your interpretation were correct, this would mean the super advanced disguise tech would actually make you worse at disguising yourself than a simple disguise kit.

I had not considered this description before, but I still stick to my original interpretation. I agree with your interpretation of the holoskin description, That it seems to be talking about a DC to successfully create a disguise. However, this DC, as far as I know, does not exist in the core rule book. Even in the holoskin description, it seems to refer to it, but not cite it, or tell us where to find it. Since the other methods I know of for disguising oneself, the spell, and the kit, work fine with the skill description as is, I suspect the holoskin is in need of an update.

That said though, I am just another player, so my opinion is in no way binding. Since these two descriptions do seem to contradict each other, this does seem prime for an FAQ entry.

Core Rulebook page 133

You can take 20 on a check to identify a creature, but only if you have a means of performing research, such as access to an information network like a planetary infosphere or a downloaded data set (see page 430); this typically takes 2 minutes.

taking 20 to recall knowledge is on the same page, and has the same rule about having computer access.

If you see the monster coming, it might be awfully useful to take the 2 minutes to look it up on Wikipedia with your portable computer before you engage it ;) Also, if you are on a primitive planet, far from your ship, there might not be a public terminal you can use, so your personal computer will be the only way to do any research.

The flaw I see with option 1, is as I stated before, there is no DC to modify. There is no check to succeed at disguise mentioned anywhere in the skill. Only the opposed check to see through a disguise with perception. You just announce your plan to the GM, the GM rolls in secret, and you hope whatever they rolled holds up well to any perception checks you run into.

As far as pulling off an implausible costume with only a disguise kit... This is sci-fi ;) Think like the robot head Arnold uses when he disguises himself as a large woman in Total Recall. If you can make a totally convincing robot head, why not octopus limbs, rhino feet, an ostrich head, and some feathers?

That said, magic or a holographic generator would be easier than all that machinery, so I would think you would get those bonuses as well. I don't think that is imbalanced as most disguises are very situational, and the player doesn't necessarily get a lot of choice in the matter. For example, if you are trying to sneak past the all human crew of a space pirate ship, you are probably going to have to disguise yourself as a medium sized humanoid if you hope to walk through undetected. Now if the pirates are smuggling large exotic alien creatures, and the players were creative enough to let a number of them lose, then slipped into the fray, they deserve those bonuses!

I think the skill works this way to try and streamline the gameplay a bit. if you are using a holoskin or magic, it doesn't really make sense to have to roll a check to see if you can even create the disguise. you could certainly argue for needing a check for using a disguise kit, but at that point you are adding a whole new rule to a system to support one subset of a skill's uses. Also having a skill check to create the disguise would just lead to arguments about if its appropriate to take 20, or refusing to enter the pirate's den until they roll a high enough check, discarding multiple "bad" disguises until they feel its right. This way, its one dice roll, and the game moves on.

so I realize this thread is no longer talking about this, but I just wanted throw my 2 cents in on the original question...

In my mind, when faced with the inevitable destruction of their world, but before the undeath solution was decided on; I would imagine Pharasma would have a huge up swing in worship by everyone trying to prepare for the end. Assuming the cataclysm didn't explode overnight this would have lead to huge cathedrals and centers for worship being built to her on Eox very quickly. Later, peer-preassure and general self preservation urges would lead a large number of these people to accept undeath.

Now that these enormous cathedrals are a constant reminder of the betrayal of their faith, this would lead to a guilt ridden, but still rather large body of worshipers. I like to imagine a heavy "forgive us for we have sinned" culture of self flagellating undead monks in their massive gothic cathedrals, begging Pharasma for her mercy for their weakness. This also makes one hell of a fun story hook that I hope to explore soon :D

Agree with Whew as well.

In the skill entry, it mentions 2 skill checks as part of the contest check, a disguise check and a perception check, but only one check has a target to succeed(a DC). The perception check. It is impossible to modify the disguise check DC because it doesn't have one, so the only logical place for these modifiers to go is the DC of the perception check. In this case the DC is whatever the GM rolled for the secret disguise check + any modifiers from the character's disguise skill, and tools used, etc.

This is consistent with the table values as well. a superficial alteration like a fake mustache is easy to see through, so you lower the DC of the perception check (disguise roll - 5). Using a spell or holographic projector to change your appearance to a different species that looks nothing like your original appearance makes it very difficult to spot any similarities, so you increase the DC of the perception check (disguise roll + 10).

I really want to like this 0 level spell, but it has some REALLY specific limitations. It seems like if you can only transfer charge between 2 of the same object, then what is the benefit of using this spell over just taking the other battery with you? You can't even use it as a universal battery charging adaptor, since a generator tap wouldn't be the same object as your battery.

So far the only use I can come up with, is the overcharge damage could be used to sabotage a supply of batteries, by using one of your own to overload the others.

I am hoping you good people can give me some more creative, but still legal uses of this spell.

Thanks!

Spell chips are special magic items that allow a computer to generate spell effects

if the computer is generating the spell effect, it sounds like the effect originates from the computer to me...

Also a computer might not be able to reach out and touch a target, but if the target is fool enough to pick up a strange computer... depending on the spell it could count.