fredthebadger's page

To be fair, 125 days isn't that far off for making armor. Its not like you just bang a piece of metal into shape overnight, and especially when you are working in such fine detail as making tiny armor.

Additionally, 200gp isn't that far off since you are making Halfplate which costs 600gp normally. Doesn't matter that it is for a smaller creature, the workmanship is what matters.

125 days might not be that far off in terms of realism, but it is pretty damn far off in terms of 'achievable by a PC who is the only Crafter in the party'.

As for 200 gp of raw materials, Chromantic Durgon has it right. There is no workmanship involved in raw materials. I could buy a literal ton of iron for 200 gp, or half a ton of iron and the services of an NPC smith for 333 days.

So, I have a character with Craft (armorsmithing) and a Tiny pet. I wanted to make some armor for this pet, and after looking at the rules my DM and I agreed that the base crafting system just does not work for this project.

200 GP worth of raw materials is utterly absurd when the end product is going to be 5 pounds of completely mundane half-plate barding, and the anticipated time to complete the project being 125 days was also way too high.

I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for this? The alternate crafting system found on the SRD still runs into the materials issue, and the time taken seems to go too far in the other direction.

Lorewalker wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Lorewalker wrote:

Cult of Vorg wrote:

Depends on if that is a standard action supernatural ability (so no full attack actions), or a natural attack (since per greater shadow it doesn't get iteratives at bab+6 it's not a normal attack) that they can full attack with to trigger the extra attack from BoF or Haste...

The supernatural ability is Strength Damage, their attack is incorporeal touch. Two different things. Strength damage is just a rider on a shadow's touch.

SU abilities are typically standard actions. Often times if they incorporate attacks that is part of it. As pointed out, the shadow ability is the "typical" standard action, as even when the greater version has the BAB to make multiple attacks they are unable to do so with the touch/damage.

If it is something that is a "rider effect" the creature stat block will make it clear or it will be written up in the ability from what I have seen.

It's a natural attack, not manufactured thus explaining not getting iterative attacks. It is written up in the attack, just as poison would be. The only difference is that a shadows touch attack does not do HP damage so no "D(#) +".

If their touch were an SU ability it would be named such. So, instead of the SU being called "strength damage" it would be called "incorporeal touch". It would also be listed under "special attacks".

If only that were 100% across the board. Not all abilities or stat blocks follow your logic. At best you have solid generalizations unfortunately.

The basic thing I believe you need to decide is what happens if someone throws a character through a flat-footed Shadow.

If the character gets Strength-drained, the Shadow's 'incorporeal touch' is a natural weapon with zero damage that applies the SU effect of Strength Damage because the SU effect applies to anything living that touches the Shadow.

If the character goes through and takes no damage, then it gets more complicated.

This is just what I've found looking up Shadowdancer stuff for my own use over the last few hours, so take that as you will.

Dryder wrote:

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

No, that's incorrect. The shadow's attack is a natural weapon and you do not get iterative attacks with natural weapons. See the Greater Shadow: it has a BAB of +6 but only one attack.

Can you tell me where to find that rule?!

Core Rules from Combat chapter on Natural Attacks:

PRD wrote:

Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

That makes sense, except for the supposed mechanism behind how a Shadow deals damage. If their touch inflicts the Str damage, why can they only use one limb to attack? There's no 'limited-use' restriction, since they can take Attacks of Opportunity in a round where they already hit someone.

The point about Greater Shadows only having one attack is a good one, even if I don't understand why that would be how it works.

Edit: Also, there's a shadow variant in the SRD entry that just confuses the matter further: "A shadetouch shadow lacks the typical shadow’s incorporeal touch—instead, it possesses two claw attacks that each deal 1d8 points of damage on a hit, in addition to the normal amount of Strength damage shadows inflict."