Honestly, why are people arguing against this? It is such a minor thing that has virtually no capacity to make things works, and has some potential to make things better.
Some people need to step back and ask "What if I'm wrong?". One one hand, changing it is a minor inconvenience at most. The other side is continuing to marginalize a group of people.
Yea it's strange how mad people get about the name changing when it changes nothing about the actual game.
Are they mad they have to remember the name changed?
It's offensive to some people.
It's a super easy change to make.
It has no mechanical impact on the game as a whole.
Soul Cage has almost the same amount of letters so that helps with layout.
The only downside is what? Some older players get mad a name changed while new players have no idea what they're mad about. Like if they never announced the change, most people wouldn't even notice.
Win/Win
They should just go through and change any of the "problematic" names so we can have a big purge of all the people getting upset. ;)
I think a major part of the problem is Psychics just use the Occult spell list, which doesn't make them much different than certain Sorcerer bloodlines. There's no list of "psionic powers" or anything like that.
I mean...yeah..
Why wouldn't they use the mechanics they built the system upon? In that same way, is a bard just a sorcerer as well?
Bards were never hyped up as being "different", like Psionics have traditionally been. They were always spellcasters. Psionics have had a very different system in the past, which is what people seem to want, based on the hate that Occult spellcasting received in 1e.
What are Psionics? The class being playtested is a Psychic.
An alternate spellcasting system in DnD 3.5 of not-spellcasters that broke lots of things. Anytime Occult or Psychics get brought up people want Paizo to copy the alternate system from 3.5, despite being told repeatedly they were not and had not interest in doing so.
Personally i want Psionics from AD&D2e as that was one of the very first characters I ever played and he was rad, until he disintegrated himself :(
Did anyone say anything about Monk with Guns? Have an archetype called Bullet Dancer that is a general one, but is basically hand made for monk (only class that can pick it at lvl 2 as requires expert unarmored), and even let you flurry of blows with simple guns, bayonets and reinforced stocks.
I've noticed a lot of the triggers or requirements for unleash psyche requires the player keep track of what turn something happened on or how many have gone by. It's interesting but there are feats like
"Requirements The same enemy has damaged you on at least two of its turns in this encounter."
that seem fiddly. As a player you have to keep track of the creature damaging you twice, and that it did so on its turn. If you get attacked on enemy turn, then move away and it AoO's you in the head, RAW it wouldn't trigger since that AoO reaction happened on your turn.
Which seems overly bookkeepy and restrictive, if it was just "damaged by enemy on two different turns" it would be nicer?
I do dig the meta nature of tracking turns being part of a Psychic class, it fits pretty well.
If one is making a personalised staff, can the spells be contributed from multiple sources? For example, could a cleric add Searing Light to a magus' Staff of Attack, in an undead-heavy campaign? (They will of course have the Trick Magic Item feat).
When making custom staves the restrictions are they all share a trait and the trait can't be super broad. Only explicitly restricted traits are Incapacitation and spell schools and traditions.
So if you had a Fire trait staff you could have Searing light on it as well as something like fireball or burning hands.
Although it might not be useful to you unless you MCD into something that has it on their list
Quote:
You can add a spell you can’t cast to a staff by supplying a casting of it via another caster or by using Trick Magic Item; however, since you can cast a spell from a staff only if it’s on your spell list, this option isn’t useful for most characters.
If we can still actually ask questions in this thread: do the various eiodolon base forms stipulate exactly what kind(s) of attacks they have? Or does the player get to choose how their attacks are represented mechanically?
There are 4 different primary attacks to pick from with different traits, all secondary attacks are d6 agile finesse. What the attacks look like is up to player.
Page XX: It does not appear to be explicitly stated anywhere what happens to the eidolon when they reach 0 hit points, or are killed outright. Do they simply unmanifest and can be called back later? Do they need to be resurrected? Can they ever even enter a dying state?
Pg 52. You drop to 0 hp ediolon dissapears, and you share hp, so when it hits 0 they disappear.
I don't have SoM yet, but I understand that custom staves can only have spells that share one trait. I've put together a breakdown of spells with each trait to help people design their staves.
But I've recently seen suggestions on Reddit that some of these traits, like Attack and Incapacitation are disallowed. I'd appreciate it if those with the book could confirm if these, or any other traits on this list, are not allowed for custom staves. I'll remove them to avoid confusion.
** spoiler omitted **
The only ones explicitly disallowed for being too broad are incapacitation, and tradition + school traits. The rest is listed as up to gm, but "Attack" is likely too broad, the examples are traits like fire,light,shadow etc
So any actual questions on SoM? or just a random debate about summons effectiveness popping into this thread
Yeah, sorry about that ^^. Anyway, any more really cool permanent items apart from the signet?
Spellhearts are pretty cool as a new item type in general.
They affix to wep or armor like a talisman but they're not single use and don't burn out. They give a passive effect and a cantrip at lvl 3 and then at high level they grant spells. You use the spellheart dc or your dc if it's higher.
The Flaming Star Spellheart lvl 3
Affix armor - fire resistance
affix wep - after casting a fire spell from the star wep does fire dmg until next end of next turn.
cantrip - produce flame
the major one(12th) lets you cast fireball at 4th level and wall of fire.
Would be good for a magus i think.
a different one gives you a fly speed after casting from it.
So aasimar champion of ragathiel with summoner dedication for an angel buddy. Would it work or would it be too action starved?
Since so much champion stuff comes from their reactions it's probably one of the better options for a summoner dedication since you don't get act together or tendem feats.
Flame Druids can also get a focus spell to make burnt difficult terrain that dmgs.
in other fun news there are only ~5 spells that have the Incapacitation trait in the entire book. The word itself only shows up 11 times according to a quick search.
For Cathartic Magic, it makes sense to me how emotions like Rage and Fear work, with their reactions and whatnot,
But what about the less quantifiable emotions like Awe? What does Awe do and how do you trigger it?
Awe - you or ally within 30ft crits on an attack vs ac or a skill check vs enemy dc. Lets you end stupefied or fascinated on yourself when you activate and then when you cast a spell and a creature is hit by it you can also fascinate that creature. Debuff is you become flat footed.
Dedication - your emotional focus takes dmg from an enemy while within 30ft. Your emo focus gains temp hp = 1/2 lvl round up, last for 1 min. Any spells targeting emo focus gain Reach Spell, and if you heal emo focus they gain temp hp = spell lvl. Debuff - can't cast spells unless next to your emo focus.
Hatred - pick an emo focus you hate or 1 rando to be the focus for the given encounter. Activation - you step or stride to move closer to emo focus. Emo focus is flat footed to you and takes -2status to saves against spells you have the same debuffs vs your focus. debuff - stunned 2
Joy - you crit on an attack or save, or enemy crit fails against you. Activation - reduce frightened or stupefied and end any persistent mental dmg. +1 bonus to performance checks and spell attack rolls of emotion spells, and enemies have -1 to saves against emotion spells.
Love - Emo focus takes dmg, remove confused or controlled, grants bonus to will saves bigger bonus on focus.
Misery - triggered by gaining persistent dmg from a foe, gain temp hp. You can choose not to roll to stop persistent dmg, and when you cast a spell you can make a target you hit with the spell take persistent dmg equal to the highest you have.
Pride - You crit fail an attack or save. Activation - turns crit fail into a fail. Each time you cast illusion spell until the start of your next turn any crit fail on an attack or save is a fail instead.
Remorse - an ally within 30ft hits 0 hp. activation - step or stride towards the ally. Any spells cast on triggering ally get bonus healing = spell level. x2 if at 0.
Talking about 24 dex, did they also manage to put a cap for the eidolon AC?
In order not to give him +6/+7 ( dex) +3 ( item) AC?
Also, what are the options for the eidolon in terms of armor class?
Are they going to suffer from lvl 11 to lvl 14 or there's something ( let's hoping no class feats but passive perks) meant to give them not the same AC of a raging barbarian?
yes to ac cap
Guardian Plant Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10; +2 AC (+3 Dex cap)
Creeping Plant Str 12, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10; +1 AC (+4 Dex cap)
mental stats differ but ac is like above.
they get expert unarmored at lvl 11
Ah, so they moved from expert at lvl 3 but with no 5 armor cap ( just dex ) to the same magus progression?
ps:Also, is there a feat to give "heavy armors" to eidolon? I mean a 6 AC cap rather than a 5.
pps: what's the final description of "act together"?
Master at 19.
No heavy armor feats
Quote:
ACT TOGETHER [one-action] TO [three-actions]
SUMMONER TANDEM
Frequency once per roundYou and your eidolon act as one. Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action.For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action).This lets you each use separate exploration activities like Avoid Notice as you travel (Core Rulebook 496)
The crafter chooses aberration, animal, beast, celestial, construct, dragon, elemental, fey, fiend, giant, monitor, ooze, or both fungus and plant. The weapon deals 1d6 additional damage of the weapon’s damage type to creatures with the chosen trait or traits
Spellstrike is 2 actions and recharges on an action or conflux focus spell (get them from your hybrid study or feats). I actually can't tell if you roll once and then calculate it twice (once for the weapon attack modifier and once for spell attack modifier) or one and done. Magus might need that ring after all.
I read somewhere that spellstrike works like Eldritch Archer's Eldritch Shot but with 2 actions + recharge instead of 3 actions. So it's looks like that uses the main attack to hit. Someone confirm this plz.
correct
"Your spell is coupled with your attack, using your attack roll
result to determine the effects of both
the Strike and the spell. "
What kinda of feats and focus spells does elementalist come with?
There are a bunch of druid order feats for the various elementals.
Elementalist Archetype has 8 focus spells (basic and advanced), 2 for each element. You can replace your initial focus spell with one of them.
Updraft - toss a foe in the air, reflex save knocked prone on fail
Powerful Inhalation - draw all the air out of an area, 5d6 bludgenoning to everyone, fort save to speak above a whisper, crit fail stops verbal spellcasting.
Stone Lance - Spear of stone, 6d6 piercing, -10 speed on a hit unless it Escapes, crit and the creature is immobilized until escapes. After escapes takes 3 persistent bleed dmg.
WildFire - make a 10ft burst of difficult terrain that does 1dmg per square moved through, sustain to grow the burst, ending turn in the terrain is reflex save or take persistent fire dmg.
They can get a feat that douses targets with water to help with persistent fire/acid saves, one that adds persistent fire to spells, reaction to getting hit with elemental spell that quickens you for a turn, can redirect failed/crit failed elemental spells enemies cast, can make difficult terrain on spell, or cover/concealment.
What's the big finishing move that Soul Forgers are supposed to have? Is it Gate of Babylon? I want it to be Gate of Babylon...
Also what's up with the Emotional Magic? Is it just like Rage, or does it have different effects based on what emotion you channel?
They don't really have finishing moves, they're are only a few Soulforger archetype feats.
The way it works is that each "soulforged armament" has its own (power + corruption flaw) and there are a bunch of those.
Example:
Deep-Seeded Fear - +2 status bonus to Intimidation checks, no lang penalty when demoralizing, and when you manifest wep make a demoralize check on something that can see you. Corruption Flaw - if you demoralize an enemy you also demoralize the closest ally.
Heroic Heart - +1 status bonus to all attack rolls, perception checks, skill checks and saves.
The cathartic mage is really, cool, it's like rage but for casting and there are a bunch of options.
Anger
Awe
Dedication
Fear
Hatred
Joy
Love
Misery
Pride
Remorse
The way it works is that you have a trigger based on the emotion for Anger it's being hit, for Fear it's gaining Frightened.
Then you can trigger your buff and you get a different emotional benefit base on emotion.
Anger is +force dmg/spell level
Fear is you get a +1 per Frightened instead of a -1, including attacks and spell attacks and enemy saves.
Then after the buff ends (3 rounds i think) you get a debuf
Anger - you're fatigued
Fear - you are Fleeing for 2 rounds
Hatred makes enemies flat-footed to you or -2 to saves.
In non-question news it amuses me that they made a spell that is 100% Lightwell from WoW
Healing Well - make a disc of light on the ground for 1 min, at any time during the duration you or an ally that are adjacent to the pool can interact with it to be healed.
I'm having flashbacks to putting down a healing pool and then watching the party all run in some other direction.
Are there any cool necromancy spells that will make my player happy?
Yes! A bunch.
I already mentioned the Tempest of Shades and Rip the Spirit earlier in this thread.
Rouse Skeletons - lvl 3 - 2 action, 60ft range, 10ft burst, 1min sustained - Summon a bunch of grasping skeleton hands from the ground that does 2d6 slashing dmg each round. Can move the area 20ft with sustain spell.
Necromancer's Generosity - you heal an undead minion and buff it's saves vs positive dmg.
Necrotize - 12d6 negative dmg and roll 1d4 to determine effect
1. bones - weakness 3 bludgenoning
2. Joints - clumsy 1
3. Legs - -10spd
4. Muscles - enfeebled 1
Fort Save to determine 1/2dmg and length of debuff.
sanguine mist is an aoe blood sucking cloud that heals you and gives concealment.
Does the Magus get intelligence as a choice for their key ability or is it still only strength/dexterity?
How does the Magus feat that allows Spellstrike with save spells work?
Str or Dex
Expansive Spellstrike
- if you crit miss your strike the spell is lost
- creatures use their normal defenses (saves) against the spell
- if the spell lets you pick targets it only targets the target of your strike
- creatures must be in the area of the an aoe spell
If I may ask another question, how does Fey Form work? I've been hoping it would allow spellcasting in the form, and I'm curious what forms it would enable even if it doesn't.
you can choose a bunch of different fey creatures, and unless you pick elananx or unicorn, "you have hands in this battle form and can use manipulate actions" which i think means spells are ok?
cathartic mage
Elementalist - class archetype(primal/arcane casters)
Flexible spellcaster - class archetype must be a prepared caster
Geomancer
Shadowcaster
Runelord - must be a non-divination wizard
Wellspring Mage - must have spell repertiore
It was much less than I thought.
OK I know there's much more content about magic in the book. But I was expecting much more archetypes.
There is at least 1 more! Sorry I didn't search last time was just a quick look.
Soulforger - manifest weps out of your soul
Also there are 3 more Druid orders (Flame/Stone/Wave)
not sure what the issue with summoner apex items is so can't help there.
TEMPEST OF SHADES - 7th lvl spell, 100ft range, until the end of your turn you summon a tornado of howling ghosts the size of a huge creature with 60ft speed. It drains every enemy when it shows up, and frightens them when it leaves.
Ley Line's are locations where there's magical energy to tap into more or less. There's an action you can take "Tap Ley Line" as long as you're trained in (Arcana/Nature/Occult/Religion).
On a successful tap you get the benefit of the ley line for that turn, or end of next on crit. If you fail you get backlash and some damage. Benefits are things like free metamagic for next spell, or all damage from spells adds persistent 1d8dmg of that type etc.
There are rituals to strengthen ley lines so they last longer etc.
At least 2 variable action spells! But I haven't been keeping count.
Scorching Ray - multiple rays per action, can't target same thing
lvl 5 Rip The Spirit - 1-3 actions, Basic Fort Save, 5d6negative damage, drained 1 on failed save.
1 action - target 1 living creature in 30ft.
2 action - 10d6 dmg instead of 5d6
3 action - all living creatures
+1 hightening - 1d6/2d6
OHHH also there are ones that can be cast over multiple rounds! So there are a handful more.
Horizon Thunder Spehere
2actions - 2 rounds (this means 3 actions 1st round and 3 actions 2nd round)
2a - throw lightning ball at somebody that dazzles
3a - it goes farther and does dmg on a miss
2rounds - it goes farther and then explodes in a 10ft emanation and then you spark with electricity for a min and do dmg if ppl hit you.
There are also a bunch of spells with no actions listed but with components and 1min cast times, which I'm assuming are rituals.
cathartic mage
Elementalist - class archetype(primal/arcane casters)
Flexible spellcaster - class archetype must be a prepared caster
Geomancer
Shadowcaster
Runelord - must be a non-divination wizard
Wellspring Mage - must have spell repertiore
Magus
Summoner
I think that's all of them they're not in 1 specific place.
there's 18 magical backgrounds and then even more in the optional magic styles like pervasive magic. Things like student of magic, plant whisperer etc
Some of the more interesting rare ones like "Anti-Magical" - roll a dc 3 flat check for any magic effect on you, if you fail it doesn't go off. Also Time Traveler lets you quicken yourself for a turn.
Shadow magic gets some shadow reservoir, which if I understand correctly, gives you 1 spell per level up to max spell lvl -2 that are cast from your shadow and gain shadow traits.
They also get a focus spell that makes a big area of shadow that does damage but excludes allies.
Magus spellcasting archetypes follow the "Bounded Spellcasting" Feat chain.
You get 1-1st and 1-2nd, 1 can be signature. at lvl 10 the 1st lvl spell becomes 3rd lvl.
expert - at 12th lvl you get expert in spell attack rolls etc, get another 3rd lvl spell, can select second signature spell.
14th lvl - replace slots with 2 4th and 1 5th
16 = replace slots with 2 5th and 1 6th
seems like a stretch to kill all the animals all the time when they probably don't SEE a lot of magic, just hear about it.
I think the bigger issue is in the right environment, you're killing a LOT on animals when you're paranoid enough to think every tiny animal is a threat... Do they pay someone to get rid of the piles of dead squirrels, rabbits, birds, fox, ect that litter the area or do they just let them lay there to attract actual predator that are real dangers?
Or in a world where even farmers know that wizards exist as well as shapeshifter creatures.
I'd expect even a group of thugs to be paranoid if they found something next to their hideout.
Best outcome, the thugs get the infiltrator.
Worst outcome, fox for dinner.
This kinda thing happens in fantasy books as well. Specifically in Wheel of Time, rats and crows are considered minions of "the dark one" by many people.
Most people kinda dismiss it as superstition and give it lip service, but turns out it's true and later on there are cities where the rulers pay gold per crow/rat carcass turned in.
So I could see a guard chasing away wildlife/killing it if possible, and other guards might just think it's nonsense and not bother.
I did some calculations at 20th lvl against a 45 AC creature with +7 str modifier and +5 int modifier. For reference, if the magus spent all three actions just to strike, they'd do 48.75 damage on average with a +3 major striking greatsword.
If the magus uses produce flame for striking spell, they will deal 36.9 damage on average. That's not good but it gets worse. Using Polar ray (an 8th level attack roll spell) heightened to 9th level will deal 12d8 on a success. Striking spell with polar ray will deal, on average, 44.58 damage. And I'm pretty sure my math is correct. I think there's a problem with the class if it's better to not use a 9th level spell and their class feature.
Edit: My math was slightly wrong so I changed 36.75 to 36.9 and 44.31 to 44.58
are you including Drained 2 from Polar Ray, which is essentially 40 damage vs a lvl 20 target?
So instead of making its own thread that could be somewhat redundant though not entirely.
I'll pose this question here.
Why do you think, that all the d6 casters, are considered the bottom of the power spectrum in comparison to other casters?
I don't think they are considered the bottom of the power spectrum by most players, there's no real way to tell.
I think there's a small but very vocal and active group of posters that think those casters and/or casting in general is weak and like the gripe about it.
Within the confines of a pro Pathfinder 2e forum I agree. Problem is I see them become the majority outside of said forums.
Your anecdotal evidence is not proof of anything, I could just as easily point out I've heard no complaints in my games regarding casters. And that most of the complaints I do see are from the same few posters here or on the pf2 subreddit trotting out the same arguments or trying to poison the well any time somebody asks or talks about casters.
Like I said there's no way to answer your question as you assume something as fact when it is simply your opinion that "d6 casters are the bottom of the power spectrum"
You don't even define what power is in this context, do you mean damage? General usefulness to a party? Ability to do things in social situations? In combat utility? Out of combat utility?
So instead of making its own thread that could be somewhat redundant though not entirely.
I'll pose this question here.
Why do you think, that all the d6 casters, are considered the bottom of the power spectrum in comparison to other casters?
I don't think they are considered the bottom of the power spectrum by most players, there's no real way to tell.
I think there's a small but very vocal and active group of posters that think those casters and/or casting in general is weak and like the gripe about it.
1. Tiger Stance (Any stance/feat works here except Ki Strike)
2. Student of Perfection Dedication
4. Perfect Strike
6. Perfect Ki Adept (unbreaking wave advance)
8. Shadow Dancer Dedication
10. Shadow Magic (Shadow Jump)
12. Meditative Focus
14. Disrupt Ki
16. Shattering Strike
18. Meditative Wellspring
20. Shadow Master
A promising pupil falls from grace and embraces the shadow arts after leaving his school/monastery. It's heavy on the Ki abilities which makes the Meditative feats pretty much must haves. And leaving out Shadow Sneak Attack lowers the potential damage but looks like a pretty fun build.
Right now I feel the Wizard is just the generic spell caster.It seems as though Thesis is supposed to be the big decision for wizards (like Bloodline, Muse, Mystery, Order, etc) and school specialization is secondary. But right now there aren't many feats that interact with Thesis, or school choice really.
I think there is plenty of space in Wizard to add interesting class feats that expand and enhance their original Thesis choice. Currently you just pick one at the beginning and they scale in power as you level but they don't feel that unique from one another to me.
Spell Blending could get a feat(s) that lets them trade some slots to prepare a spell of a different tradition.
Metamagic Experimentation could get the ability to prepare X number of spells with metamagic already applied but still only costing the original amount of actions.
Spell Substitution getting something like "Trigger-> you crit succeed on a recall knowledge check against an enemy. Effect -> Swap any prepared spell for one in your spellbook of the same level" would be pretty cool.
Staff Wizards could get feats that let them customize and expand on the spells they get to put into a staff as well as charges.
etc.
Wizards have a lot of things that interact with spells and bonded item, but not much that interacts with the earlier Thesis choice. Bard/Sorc/Druid get a bunch of feats that expand upon their original choice and further emphasize their "sub-class" and Wizards really don't. Which for me leads them to feel like "generic spell guy", they are still effective and work in the system but they do lose a lot of the "cool" factor.
This is similar to the Ranged Devil build but leans into the spellcasting more.
At lvl 4 you can True Strike -> Ki Strike for decent damage.
Dangerous Sorc obviously helps with damage, but a Familiar can net you another Focus Point so I'm not sure which would be best. Familiar offers more RP potential as well.
Eldritch Archer to get access to Eldritch Shot.
Bespell Wep - This makes Ki Strike kinda funny, since Ki Strike is a "non-cantrip" Spell it activates the extra damage. Also At level 10 when you get this you can Fireball or Lightning bolt then Ki Strike for an extra 3d6 on both ki strike attacks.
From there on it's mostly just grabbing more spell feats for more Eldritch Shots/utility.
at 20 with Ki Form->Ki Strike and a longbow you end up with
