Viseres's page

Alright I am going to stop refreshing the page to see if someone else more familiar with Alchemists responds.

EDIT: I just read more about alchemists. The following statement is now false, as I learned about the wonders of greater mutagens. Spoiler-blocking.

** spoiler omitted **

Using a mutagen as an alchemist gives oneself a +2 natural armor bonus to AC. The old text said a rage chemist using a mutagen to modify Strength gives himself a +2 natural armor bonus to AC. This is the same as the bonus the mutagen normally gives, so the new text does not mention any change to natural armor.

The thing with Sturdy Rage is that it gives a +4 bonus to natural armor bonus to AC. So, no matter what natural armor one had before, it is now 4 higher. This works identically under the new and old text for Rage Mutagen.

The issue is you are viewing the way it's worded still wrong.

"Sturdy Rage: At 6th level, whenever a ragechemist uses his rage mutagen, he also gains a +4 bonus to natural armor, but the penalty on Will saving throws and to Intelligence for taking damage increases to –4. This ability replaces swift poisoning."

The context in which it is typed is exactly the same in how the RAW rage chemist was typed, it states bonus to natural armor. Not bonus to natural armor bonus, which would indicate an increase.

That and on page 179 of core where it goes on to explain, under dodge, Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other. Natural armor in that book does not state they stack meaning any form of bonus natural armor or natural armor bonus you only take the greater.

In contrary to Improved Natural Armor, the monster feat which explains it gives it a + increase on the natural armor.

In the end it comes down to why at lvl 12 would the rage chemist if the ability isn't modified take a penalty for something they are no longer gaining?

*edit* I somehow missed your edit from above. This is my explanation on partly why it should be fixed to match the current change to rage chemist.

We're actually at the snarl of Greater/Grand mutagen and sturdy rage. To me it has the exact same issue as Rage Mutagen

Mr. Jacobs,

A question came up with a game I'm in recently regarding the Ragechemist ability Sturdy Rage. With the errata to Rage Mutagen to only add a +2 increase to strength over what the mutagen gives, do the same form of errata apply to sturdy rage as well?

If not how would you rule the ability works?

I'm posting for an answer regarding sturdy rage ability from the Ragechemist archetype.

Sturdy Rage: At 6th level, whenever a ragechemist uses his rage mutagen, he also gains a +4 bonus to natural armor, but the penalty on Will saving throws and to Intelligence for taking damage increases to –4. This ability replaces swift poisoning.

The above is the statement from the Ultimate Combat book.

With the FAQ errata to the Rage Mutagen ability to modify it to only just increase the strength of the mutagen by +2 when it modifies the strength would you apply the same theory to this ability to where it gives a +2 increase to all natural armor bonuses on mutagens, leave the natural armor bonus at a +4 max or add it to the bonus granted from the mutagens?