Same with PF1 (Unchained RAE, been using it for years, it's what PF2 uses, just cleaned up a bit).
Yes, the colour version's better, but due to my eye condition (Retinitis Pigmentosa), I find the format/layout way too busy, cluttered, makes my eye water and get a headache.
We've been going with omitting + level since the playtest for some adventures (we also tried out + level x2), just opens up monster threat ranges. I prefer it, as I am not into number inflation like I used to be, and I like 20 orcs to always be a problem for 1 PC to take on.
Like Inigo, the best swordsman in the land, even he can't take on 20 guards at once.
I have more than one itch to scratch:
I would like extra weapon damage dice not to be tied to +X weapons, but level.
I want them to drop the whole UTEML deal, just a weird new thing (no legacy or traction), delivers no power, it comes to nothing.
Remove all icons/symbols, not just because I am vision impaired (the 2 and 3 action symbol are hard to differentiate at a glance), they also just look cheap and tacky (the Reaction one looks like a men's restroom sign).
Bingo; one of the best posts, so far.
You also hit on something very important, "Soul". The problem with 4th Ed is not the mechanics, per se, it's a great game, just, to me, it started to feel dry, shallow, soulless. That is why after about 50+ hours of DMing/playing, I became disillusioned. The even bigger problem, for me, with the Playtest, is it feels like all of those unfortunate things, and more (byzantine, dense), before I even DMed/played.
I honestly feel they might have gone in the wrong direction with this baby (incorrect gauge), maybe something more between 3rd and 5th Ed would be better received, not something more complex than 3rd Ed. I do not hear/see anyone clamouring for that, even Monte Cook admitted it's overwrought: "What have we wrought?"
Yea, as Paizo had been publishing Dragon with 100% official material, APs, and many ex-WotC employees work there, more than makes it reputable. Erik Mona worked on one of the best 3rd Ed books, ever, Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss (fantastic book, and useable in any edition, some great lore, and lots of nods to Greyhawk and Planescape). They have more than proved that they deserved to take on the 3rd Ed legacy, if only they would keep to it.
John Whyte wrote:
Campaign was fun. One of us had a hard copy phb. We all had pdfs. My wife and two other players said they hated character creation from the pdfs. So for the next campaign we went with pathfinder as it was in print.
Yes, character creation, which I feel is the most byzantine and least fun in the Playtest, compared to any iteration, to date. As for drawing in new players, I do not see it happening (I know some will now claim how this is the first edition they have drawn in new players and all that, I still don't buy it, just history repeating).
Not really, works fine.
I am hoping it is not so pigeonholed into heavy armour and a defender role, upon release.
I agree, the APs do not expect the level of crunching that some embrace in a game like this. That would be disastrous, as some play more casually.
I totally agree. D&D/PF are games to support many worlds, and apparently the majority of home games take place in homebrewed campaign settings. I like Golarion, but it's simply one of many worlds with which to use the PF rules.
They streamlined it in 2nd Ed, so it's Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing vs. Armour Type. Quite nice, I think I might go and see how I can implement it in 3rd Ed/PF and 5th Ed.
Its true that stuff is hidden deep. It blew me away the first time I found that chart that listed all of the AC values and had a certain to hit bonus all different weapons got to hit vrs different AC's. I think the assumption being some weapons would be better at puncturing armor then others. (war picks got a huge bonus against higher ACs)
That one is not so hidden (weapon type vs. armour), also an optional rule in the 2nd Ed PHB. It's actually quite cool, and can make some weapons that are usually ignored, to be actually used.
Yes I was going more for the strange funny. But yes it always strikes me as odd when I see things we used to do in 1st D&D seem to come back around in these later games. There was a ton of things in 5th that reminded me more of 1st then any other editions. some things in PF1 as well that took me back that I saw vanish in between editions.
I can dig that, and I agree that the 1st Ed AD&D PHB and DMG can be byzantine, hard to find stuff, and pretty much no two tables are alike (rules-wise).
The beauty of that 1st Ed AD&D DMG is, I seem to always find something new, after all these years, wild.
Ninja in the Rye wrote:
I think that damage bonuses should come from level, is that "martial ability"? I don't know. I also see no reason for saving throw bonuses to be coming from "elsewhere" and I'm rather meh on the idea of attack and AC bonuses coming from item quality.
I totally agree, I despise Item bonuses and extra weapon damage dice coming from +X weapons, and you should not need magic armour to keep up in the Saving Throws dept.
I have houre-rules to a take care of it, but I would like to see where they go with this situation in the final product.
All this does is remind me that the paladin is pigeonholed into heavy armour and a low Dex.
That is more-or-less my experience. The Playtest seems like a heavy, niche game. and for some reason, to me, feels like a Sci-Fi RPG, converted to the Fantasy milieu.
In that vein, PF2 will still be Pathfinder, The engine got an upgrade, and we finally got airbags, but it's still Pathfinder, it's the system we have driven for ten years, but with a new engine and new features. Now we need to wait for all our favorite accessories and mods to come out for it.
Not really, I do not feel that way, it is too revolutionary to be considered close to the game we have been playing for 10-years. Just like 4th Ed is a far cry from the same game as 3rd Ed, despite the designer marketing spin of: "Ze game remains ze same.", that now makes my blood curdle a bit.
So, only if the DM dictates that a particular member of a species is unique, can it get away with unique features that are not available to PCs?
Nice, you summed up the 5th Ed playtest.
Igor Horvat wrote:
I do not want a 20 or 22, out the gate. I want starting scores to be limited to 18, at 1st-level, so you can get that 22, at 20th-level. I just find the ability score increases, overall, is too much.
I have to say I'm generally disappointed by the poll results. Though I'm pleasantly surprised that a bunch of people weren't interested in maintaining wands as is. Still, people wanting artifacts in first printing, liking the icons,
Liking Icons is the one that made me the most crestfallen. Not only do they give me difficulty, due to my vision impairment (hard to differentiate the 2 and 3 action symbol, at a glance), I find them aesthetically unpleasant and cheap, think so about 4th Ed, too. Icons are great for CCGs, but I have never dug them in RPGs. If the entire layout, formatting, order, colours, icons, etc, doesn't change, rather drastically, I have a feeling when I open my copy of PF2, I might have a "My eyes!" moment.
Dr. Zerom Brandercook wrote:
I feel like they have an idea of what the want to do already, and just wanted some outside opinions to shape it a little. A lot different than the 5e playtest which went through many iterations and gathered data from a much wider audience. If this was a bad or good thing remains to be seen.
Yes, I have mentioned this before, it seems like it was designed in isolation, by a few. That they decided on the direction they want, and are not going to deviate much from the path they have chosen.As for 5th Ed's playtest, seems like it was a good thing; doing remarkably well (4 years on).
The angry player attitude is so far departed from my experience, and I have literally DMed hundreds of campaigns, one-offs, D&D Encounters, and conventions combined. But a lot of that came back before the internet became what it is now (in fact, before there was an internet the public could reach at all).
Ah, yes, the entitlement movement I have heard/read about seems to have really surged during 3.5's run.
Right on, and that's what they went for with +Level, it is just easily removed, and one of the designers even mentioned that might show up in a future product.
Ah, yes, now this really bothers me, and is another reason why I would like additional damage dice tied to proficiency and level, not magic weapons and some NPCs just have it, because...