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Any chance for this to become reality??

After reading roll for combats intelligent weapon ancestry, it makes me convinced we need one as an official ancestry.

Captain America

'Nough said

Several myths and legends surround heroes or gods who are a bit more macabre.

I think some abilities should Deal with fire, brimstone, the Undead, void energy etc.

One concept I think would be AMAZING is to go down the path of being a great old one godling where I get a "divine spark" from the tapestry... or the tapestry greatly influenced my divine spark.

There are traditionally darker gods (like rovagug or urgathoa) we should have options in the form of epithets that can reflect that darker path.

Anyone know why - or can anyone ask why - the devs removed elemental weapon from kineticist? I really wanted to be a fighter or Barbarian wielding a fire sword or ice sword, but now I can't.

I just got the book.

Are we allowed to talk about it or do I have to wait till the 17th? If we can talk about it - then AMA...

One of the things I think this game needs to release is an advanced class guide. Many classes need more support, more feats, supporting spells etc to make them work better.

For example. The lack of Tempest oracle spell support damages the concept tremendously.

I am betting composite kineticist will only have 1 composite blast per combination which will greatly limit choice selection etc.

It's a book I think we desperately need.

Plus - Synthesis summoner. =)

...the math is terrible and confusing.

A lot of the system relies on the trained to legendary path.

This wouldn't be so bad, but the math and abilities are deceptive.

When I first joined pf2E, I was like, "I can make a melee sorcerer?! And have it be effective?!" So I made one with gluttonous jaws. It chomped chomped.. then proceeded to get one shot by nearly everything. And at higher level, my chomp chomp ceased to be effective.

A lot of people want pew pew wizard's because wizard's pew pew... until they discover the hidden cost. They get delayed progression, becoming expert at 7 instead of 5. They don't get +1 to DC from items like martial get to attack, leaving them even further behind.

At 5, a wizard is 5 behind a fighter and 3 behind every other martial character.

That's huge.

Furthermore, there's a lot of trap options for character concepts that people love that completely suck.

Bomber alchemist? They deal barely any dps and their progression is only toward expert.

Mutagen alchemist? I played a martial mutagen alchemist back in the day. It was fun! I loved being weak ol Bruce banner one minute and hulk the next. This edition makes that impossible. The mutagenist sucks in martial combat.

And a lot of the character concepts that work at level 1 stop working past level 4.

Mutagenist, warpriest, Bomber, Shape-shifting Druid, warrior muse, any pew pew spellcasters that just want to see things blow up, etc are just bad and aren't played much by vets of pf2e because they don't deliver on the fantasy. So they ultimately take up space in the game for no reason.

Furthermore, a lot of options that would be cool characters have almost zero support even after being a thing for almost 2 years.

Oracle is a GREAT example.

Tempest mystery has almost zero support and it's main draw/ability only works with like 5 total spells.
There aren't many air/water dps spells out there atm!

There are a lot of feats that honestly need to be baseline for the class to function.

Divine access for oracle, for example, needed to be baseline.

Then we have tattoo artist. Awesome! I get to select 4 level 1 tatt.... where are they again? They don't exist!

Another thing, the stats are messed up.
If I want to be a strength fighter, I get 18 to start in str. Cool.
Rogue? 18 dex.
Traumaturge? 16 str
So I'm already behind everyone by 1 attack.. and attack, in this sort of game, is huge.
If I want to have 18 str as a traumaturge, I should be allowed to have 18 str. Tying some classes to have innately lower accuracy when the game is balanced toward 18 stat accuracy, the game is ultimately broken.

I think PF2E did a lot of great ideas. But a lot of the design choices and the math involved and the lack of support, or trap options that make class choices terrible and deceptive.

This isn't a post to convince players PF2E is a bad system. I love it and prefer it over D&D5E. But the system itself has issues that have only gotten more pronounced the longer the game has been out.

Other issues I see - I'm overwhelmed by archetypes. There are SO MANY that I'm not sure which archetypes are good or bad.

And a lot of the archetypes are fun, but ultimately kinda suck.

Now let's discuss stats. Stats help differentiate characters... but at level 20, everyone almost has the same stat array except for 2 stats that remain at 10.

This encourages min maxing the right stats and makes everyone feel the same physically. When everyone has 18s in almost everything...

It feels less special to have an 18.

When PF3 ultimately releases, I hope paizo takes this into consideration and understands that a lot of their design choices destroy class fantasy and I'd like to see class fantasy back and the system to be ultimately less confusing as a result.

Anyone know if this is going to be an option when kineticist comes out?

I LOVED my cold kineticist in PF1E where the only damage type I dealt was based on cold damage.

If not - why not?

I just thought of this - but what if, at level 1, we had the choice how we cast these abilities. Similar to how psychics choose where their power comes from.

So for example at level 1, I can choose if I want to use burn 'or' use action tax, or other options in which said overflow abilities are taxing on us.

This, I think, would benefit every playstyle for those that want burn and for those that don't.

I'm not the biggest fan of making elemental blast into requiring runes.

If elemental blast added con to damage and scaled up to 6d8+con, but be a 1 action cost blast, I think it would be fairly balanced.

A guy who swings for 4d8+14+ 3d6 would deal roughly similar damage to someone making an attack. Even slightly undertuned. Could probably increase it to 8d8+con and be about even with other ranged.

Just have a 1 action attack cantrip.

I think this class would have a lot of its issues fixed if it got expert class DC at level 1, changed the elemental blast from a combat ability into more of a 1 action attack cantrip that is based off of class DC, and got up to legendary in class DC much like how fighter gets expert in weapons at level 1.

You could even make it so they can still use runes on a sort of conduit item that allows them to add runes to their elemental blast.

This then would allow the kineticist to actually specialize in one aspect and that's blasting. Right now it tries to be a martial and a spellcaster(sort of) and does neither of them really well and causes the entire class to be worse off. If we need to focus, we should focus on this aspect and make it so when it comes to blasting, they can land them relatively consistently compared with other blasting options.

Elemental blast so far Is a bit bland. What if they brought back substance infusions?

With so much AOE I can't help but think that the kineticist NEEDS con to ignore allies otherwise their impulses will be VERY situational at best.

Just build it in at level 1 and they will have an interesting AOE niche where their Overflow impulses ignore allies.

Chain Blast isn't as good as people think.

40%
16%
6.4%
2.55%
1.0%

So there is a 1% chance of hitting all 5 targets with an AC of 12.

Only a 16% chance of hitting the target twice.

6.4% for 3 hits.

It's not really that great.

What if each overflow impulse cost 1->3 actions? Like heal/harm does?

That might be pretty cool.

I wish there was a way that these interwoven a bit better.. like if you crit you'd get to use an overflow ability as a free action or some such. Might be too powerful, but it feels like two separate paths on the same chassis

Air pushes everyone away by 5/10/15/20 ft in a 5 ft burst, fort save to negate. (As yiu resist being pushed)
Earth causes the ground to be difficult terrain in a 5 ft burst
Fire deals 2 fire damage in a 5 ft emanation.
Water causes concealment for everyone within 5 ft.

At level 5 and every 5 levels after that (10/15/20) that burst or emanation increases by 5 ft.

It would be sorta similar to the kineticist blighter where when they gather energy or the elements, they deal real consequences to everything around them.

Make each overflow impulse into a 1 action activity.

But make each one cast HP damage in burn. So at level 1, tidal hands could cost 12 hp but use 1 action.

Let's say gather elements made me resistant = four times my level on my next impulse cast. Stackable an unlimited number of times.

So I can gather elements twice to gain 8 resistance to my next overflow impulse. Tidal hands only cost 4 hp now.

If I gain a level, I can then use tidal hands for free, but only its level 1 capability. Each ability would let me scale down so I don't use hp to damage me.

Note: the numbers definitely need tweaking and work to be balanced. This was just an idea for gather elements to reduce burn and incorporate burn.

Will we finally get electricity, air, and fire trait spells on the divine list? Tempest and flame oracle need some serious support outside of divine access imo.

There should be feat options to make melee kineticists more viable.

Want to go sword and board kineticist? You can do that wit earth and be able to summon a club and a shield.

Want to do dual wield kineticist? This option should also be allowed and elemental weapon should allow you to formulate this and some feats should allow you to have some dual attack options to really get that dual wield flavor down. Want to go two handed weapon? This should also be allowed.

I find it disappointing that as an earth kineticist, I can't summon a giant EARTH BREAKER.

Furthermore, make earth kineticist strictly strength based rather than dex based as part of its kit and give it more tools at lvl 1 to help with that.

Each element should have a major and minor role to it that really encapsulates most of the fantasy.

Earth should be DEFENSE first with some minor AOE abilities. The AOE should for Earth should be the weakest AOE out of all the kineticists in terms of damage, but it can cause creatures to be prone if they fail their fort save. Their elemental blasts should hit the hardest.

Water should be AOE first and foremost. The most AOE out of all the kineticist packages. They have the strongest AOE potential out of all the kineticists. As a minor, they have some minor healing capabilities. Water has the strongest AOE impulses.*

Air should be all about fluidity and striking with elemental blast many times, but their elemental blast hits the weakest. They should have an ability built in that gives them the same bonus to attacking multiple times as a rangers flurry but without needing to use an action to target an enemy. They still only deal 1d4, but their second and 3rd attack only has a -2 and -4 penalty. They get better utility, some of the best utility out of all the elements.

Fire should be all about single target blasting with minor AOE capabilities. If you want a single target blaster with strong single target overflow abilities, pick fire. They also get minor AOE capabilities. They can be fairly strong and useful, but not as strong as water. Their attacks can also cause persistent fire damage. If you want a single target blaster that's effective, choose fire.

Wood should be the main healer out of the elements. Their major role is healing and support. Their minor role is immobilization and control of the battlefield.

Metal should be the opposite of fire where they are heavily focused on AOE damage with some minor single target DPS, but their single target isn't as good as fire.

Really lean into differentiating the elements based on roles to cover multiple different "styles" of play into one class.

And if people want to do multiple different roles, they can just use dual gate.

I criticized a lot about damage potential, but let me explain what I love.

Dedicate gate/dual gate/universal gate.

I love this concept but I don't think it goes far enough in differentiating them. But even still, I love that you can start out being multiple elements.

Flinging updraft and other utility

The utility spells look very fun and engaging

The overflow names at higher levels fills my anime weeaboo desire.

Picking feats instead of just being another spellcasting class is the right move and direction.

So many people might read this and be like, "NO WAY! That's way too powerful!" but look at how unique it would be if we just made them all 1 action and adjusted accordingly.

Think about it like this.

I have tidal wave. I can use 1 action to blast everyone with 1d6 damage within two 15 ft cones or one 30 ft cone for 1 action. I can do it twice for two actions. OR I can do it once for one action, use aerial boomerang for 1d4 damage for 1 action and then for my last action I can use tremor for 1d4 damage. Lets assume I hit two people at once with each ability.

I'd deal on avg 3.5 dmg +3.5 dmg + 2.5 dmg + 2.5 dmg + 2.5 dmg + 2.5 dmg for my turn. That's a total of 17 damage if they all fail their save.

In comparison, a summoner can deal 1d4+4*2 with electric arc and their Eidolon can strike twice for 1d8+4 or 6.5 + 6.5 + 8.5 + 8.5 or 30 damage on level 1 if they all hit.

Then overflow would allow for me to eliminate my gathered element, but in doing so, I increase the damage of one of my elements by 3 times the damage.

So my avg turn would look like this

I gather my element. I use aerial boomerang for 1d4 damage. I use tidal hands for 1d6 damage. But instead, I use my overflow ability and deal on avg 10.5 damage with my tidal hands as a finisher, which would be 2.5 dmg against two targets + 10.5 dmg against two targets or 26 damage when I am using my finisher.

This would also allow us more freedom to throw weak elements around that act as a sort of, "Death by a thousand cuts" in a way.

Thoughts?

Healing springs

Every creature in your kinetic aura gains fast healing equal to half your level, minimum 1.

Is the intent for simply DPS blasters only? Or will there be options so I can be a healer kineticist or a tank kineticist as well where I can be the dedicated tank or dedicated healer?

Just being "earth" doesn't make me a tank.

Would it be so broken if dual gate was a combination of two elements instead of using each element individually?

For example.. Instead of, "I gather fire to use fire. I gather earth to use earth" it is, "I spend one action to gather lava. All my impulses gain both the earth and fire traits and deal bludgeoning and fire damage." Provide fusion right from the start and allow all our impulses to be fusion based. But the fusion wouldn't necessarily do more damage. It would just combine two elements.

Earth + fire = Magma (Fire and bludgeoning)
Earth + Air = Sand (Bludgeoning and Slashing)
Earth + Water = Mud (Bludgeoning)

Fire + Air = Plasma (Fire and slashing)
Fire + Water = Steam (Fire and bludgeoning)

Air + Water = Storm (Bludgeoning and Slashing)

Not sure what metal and wood combinations would be though..

But right off from the start I could play a magma kineticist or sand kineticist or mud kineticist etc by doing dual. This would create more distinction for dual kineticists and they could even get unique hybrid only impulses as well.

I think the class really needs legendary DC and a built in +3 to DC over time to match the item bonus that gives +3 to attack. This will allow us to land our blasts much easier. I'd rather have this than mastery in strikes.

A martial class really limits this class a lot, but I still love the martial like feat selection.i just want to deal damage with my impulses.

If they get rid of elemental blast and greatly expand impulses, I'd be decently happy.

Anyone else miss this ability?

What would a pf2e version look like?

Instead of gather an element being just 1 action and using it and having an aura cost 2 actions why not combine the two? Gathering an element causes an aura to occur. Using an element causes the aura to be "spent"

So the aura, rather than actions, is what I'm spending.

I think this is far more interesting than spending actions.

WARNING - LOTS OF MATHS

Most cantrips are either 1d4 or 1d6 damage

Electric arc is 1d4 * 2

So we will go with the least and strongest cantrip to find a range.

At level 1, produce flame deals 1d4+4 damage for two actions. Electric arc deals 1d4+4 damage for two actions but deals it twice.

So at level 1, produce flame deals 7 damage or 3.5 damage per action. Electric arc deals 7 damage to two different targets or 7 damage per action.

At the highest level (20), produce flame deals 10d4+7 damage or 28.5 avg damage or 14.25 damage per action.

Electric arc deals 28.5 avg damage per action.

Now let's go into Elemental blasts.

Air deals 1d4 damage at 1 or 4d4 damage at 20. Runes may give it another lets say 3d6 damage just for maths sake.

So 4d4+3d6 = 7 min 34 max or 20.5 damage on average if you hit with your first attack. Assuming a dice roll of 12 is needed for the first attack, you deal an average damage of .4*20.5+.2*20.5 = 8.2+4.1=12.3 avg damage with attacks at max level.

Now granted, electric arc can resisted as well. Blasting spells are resisted a lot even on legendary casters.

But let's assume for a minute that the electric arc is resisted twice with a success, but not critical success.

That 28.5 = 14.25 damage per hit, meaning that even though the electric arc was resisted twice, it still deals more damage on average than simply using strikes.

A cantrip deals more damage than strikes at max level for an air kineticist. The earth one would deal 4d8+3+3d6 or 10 - 53 damage or 31.5 damage on avg. 11 damage more per strike than the air kineticist. They would deal 18.9 damage on average when calculating on whether they can hit an AC of 12 or not at level 20.

14.25 damage per hit is STILL more total damage, being as that is 28.5 damage total, than the most damaging elemental blast that the kineticist has.

Now - Let's look at cantrips vs impulses.
Tremor deals 11d4 for an action investment of 3.
Aerial Boomerang deals 11d4 (maybe twice, but not often) for an action investment of 3
Flame Eruption is 7d6 for an action investment of 3
Water is 11d6 or an action investment of 3.

These are, admittedly, all level 1 feats. But lets analyze their damage potential.

Tremor deals 9.16 damage per action per target.
Aerial Boomerang deals 9.16 damage per action per target. Maybe twice, but not often.

Flame Eruption deals 8.16 damage per action per target.
Water deals 12.83 damage per action per target.

These are assuming full damage.

Electric arc deals 14.25

In order for ANY of these attacks to be more effective than electric arc I would need..

Tremor to hit 28.5 damage worth of targets each cast. or at least 4 targets each time tremor is used. The max targets tremor can hit is 4.

For flame eruption, I need to hit 4 enemies.. stacked up on top of each other like 4 goblins in a trench coat pretending to be a venture captain.

For Aerial Boomerang per cast, I need to hit at least 4 targets to be better than a cantrip. These 4 targets can be 2 initial targets and then 2 more when the boomerang come back or 3 and 1 or 1 and 3 or 0 and 4 or 4 and 0. Just any combination of 4 targets needing to be hit.

Water probably has the easiest damaging potential. I just need to hit 3 targets per cast with my wave in order to be better than electric arc and if it only hits 2, the damage potential is barely behind electric arc for the action investment needed. The damage for this water wave is fairly easy to mean given you can have two 15 ft cones or 30 foot cone. I think this ability is fairly balanced compared to all the rest and I think this is the sort of balance where all of the abilities should be at for 1st level. In fact, allow con to be added to the damage for impulses. This will make up, some, for the higher potential for resistances I suppose since we don't get legendary class DC and I think it would be perfect.
2d6+4 damage at level 1 = 3.66 dmg per target per action investment at level 1 instead of 2.33 dmg per target per action investment at level 1.

Now let's look at the strongest abilities for kineticist

Air
Ferocious Cyclone 9d10 damage for 3 actions total. 99/6 = 16.5 damage on avg per target per action invested. So I have to hit 2 targets with this ability to be better than electric arc.

Earth
The shattered Mountain Weeps Initial damage is 13.75 damage and i'd have to hit 3 targets initially to be better than electric arc, but I can prob get away with 2. But it also has the 3d10 damage per round for a minute as well which is an additional 4.125 damage per target per action if they remain in the area.

Fire
All shall end in flames deals 8d10 damage meaning 88 damage or 11 damage per target per action. I'd have to hit 3 targets with this ability to be better than electric arc.

Water
Interestingly, their highest level ability does NOT increase at level 20 so I will take their 18th level damage which is 11 damage per target per action.. Which means I'd have to hit 3 targets with this ability to be better than electric arc.

Now let's compare it to fireball. Why fireball? It's the most iconic spell in tabletop and lets go ahead and buff it up to level 10 spell level, then 9, then 8 so on and so forth and analyze it's damage potential.

It deals 20d6 damage at 10. 18d6 at 9. 16d6 at 8. 14d6 at 7. 12d6 at 6. 10d6 at 5. 8d6 at 4. 6d6 at 3.

Fireball at level 19 deals 35 damage per action per target. Usable 1/day
At 17 = 31.5 damage per action per target 3/day
At 15 = 28 damage per action per target 3/day (This is essentially on par with electric arc damage if you only hit 2 targets with fireball if electric arc is at level 20)
At 13 = 24.5 damage per action per target 3/day
at 11 = 21 damage per action per target 3/day
At 9 = 17.5 damage per action per target 3/day
At 7 = 14 damage per action per target 3/day
At 5 = 10.5 damage per action per target 3/day

So let's compare them.

At max level...
Air deals 16.5 damage per action per target which is lower than a spell level 5 fireball. (level 10 wizard)

Earth deals less damage per action per target than a spell level 4 fireball. (level 7 wizard)

Fire deals SLIGHTLY more damage than a spell level 3 fireball. (level 5 wizard)

Water deals the same as fire per action so they deal slightly more damage per action per target as a level 3 fireball (level 5 wizard)

Now let's look back on damage potential again of level 1 impulses.

Tremor deals 9.16 damage per action per target.
Aerial Boomerang deals 9.16 damage per action per target. Maybe twice, but not often.

Flame Eruption deals 8.16 damage per action per target.
Water deals 12.83 damage per action per target.

Interestingly tidal wave deals more damage than a level 18 feat. per action per target.

But every one deals less damage per action per target than a spell level 3 fireball or a wizard at level 5 except tidal wave which deals less damage than a spell level 4 fireball.

Meanwhile a wizard has 22 total fireballs that they can cast at 20th level total of varying degrees of strength and 16 total fireballs per day that are stronger than whatever a level 20 kineticist can dish out.

On average there are 3 encounters per day with around 3-4 round per encounter.

That's 9-12 rounds per day.

A wizard can cast a fireball once every round per day and still have fireballs left over that are stronger than whatever a kineticist can dish out at level 20.

This isn't even calculating in the fact that wizards also have 2 higher DC and their spells are resisted far less than a kineticists abilities will be and they'll get crit fails against their saves and less crit successes against their saves more frequently as well.

The math shows quite plainly that the action investment per damage done makes the kineticist not worth playing at all in its current state.

Want a blaster? Just play a wizard.

What if kineticists could literally use their con to have select targets not be effected by their AOE capabilities? There's a lot of situations in which I might hit my party members making AOE kinda useless if everyone is clumped together

Thoughts?

Imo a lot of action issues would be fixed if gather elements was just a free action that gave bonuses while active and those bonuses vanish when you use it with overflow.

This is a thread to compile all the comprehensive reviews for the devs to easily see and find, so they aren't lost in the sea of posts. The reason it's in general is simply so that it is easy to find, unless Logan wishes to pin this post.

I'll start it off.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nvz?Verzens-Review-of-Kineticist#1

After thinking about the kineticist more and doing some of the maths, here is my review of the kineticist.

So I will explain what I loved and didn't love about each feature.

Ability Stat

What I like:
I LOVE con as the ability score. It's unique in PF2e.

What I don't like:
The lack of uses con actually has. It needs to actually DO something aside from just increase DC.

What I would like to see changed:
Make the kineticist into a D12 class with con as its stat and introduce a balanced 'strain mind' like ability that psychics get, usable multiple times a day, but can increase your effective level with your impulses. If you're level 1, you can cast an impulse as if you were level 2 or 3 etc, but the damage gets exponentially harsher and harsher and just make it like strain mind works, but usable multiple times for combat. So what if people can just 'heal you' out of it? What it DOES do is that it provides some kind of limit for your abilities and if the cleric wants to heal you, they can provide you more of that limit. It creates a mechanic never seen before in PF2e that I think would be amazing to see on a class.

The Gates

What I like:
Allowing multiple feats at first level being able to pick what element I want and how many I get. The fact that specialization allowed more feats than dual which allowed more feats than universal is really cool for 1st level characters and really helps define them.

Things I don't like:
The fact that dedicated gate drops off at later levels in favor of dual or universal. In fact, at level 20, universal can literally cherry pick the best feats.

Dedicated Gate

What I like:
I love how dedicated gate is hyper focused on one element and allows you to really encompass that feel.

What I don't like:
Dedicated Gate gets overshadowed by both Dual and Universal. Dedicated should get more efficiency with its blasts, like perhaps having gather elements as a free action for dedicated only. Or it should be able to deal more damage.

Dual Gate

What I like:
Dual gate allows me to use two different elements which is pretty cool.

What I don't like:
The two elements should literally be fused together instead of separate. If i am fire and water, there should be a line in there about how every impulse I use and every blast I use is both fire and bludgeoning and that I am using steam instead of fire to make my attacks. Dual should ONLY be about hybrids. If I gather an element as a dual, I should be able to use either of those elemental feats, but they would be hybrid impulses. If I use the 1st level Tidal Hands ability as an earth/water dual gate, the ability itself should gain the earth trait it would be mud. If I am fire/water, that same ability would deal both bludgeoning and fire damage and it would gain the fire trait. This would be the advantage of having dual gate. I shouldn't have a choice of just being able to use fire or water. It should only come from the combination of both.

Universal Gate

What I like:

I like how you can essentially be all the elements right from the start.

What I don't like:

This path overshadows literally every other path the closer you get to 20. You can cherry pick the best talents from each path.

Summary of the Gates
Dedicated Gate should be the most efficient gate with the highest damage potential with just its one element.

Dual Gate should be able to combine two elements into a different element and be the only gate that can do that. Dedicated and Universal shouldn't have access to this hybrid or fusion of elements.

Universal Gate should be the jack of all trades, master of none. They can cherry pick the best feats, but they aren't as strong as dedicated gate and they aren't combined like Dual gate.

Gather Element

What I like:
I like how there is a move to literally gather an element using an action.

What I don't like:
This feels like a major feat tax for no real pay off. A lot of the overflow abilities require significant action investment for very little pay off and uses Gather Element as a tax.

What I'd change:
Make Gather Element work similar to Elemental Defense from PF1 where, while an element is gathered, you gain passive buffs. Earth gives you resistance and AC along with shield block, fire gives you a damage shield, water gets you concealment, etc.

Which brings me to my next point

The lack of Elemental Defense

Elemental defense was such a staple of PF1 kineticists that it needs to come back in some form. I want to FEEL like an element embodies me and it's difficult to do that when I just feel like an elemental sorcerer.

Elemental Blast

What I like: Not much, tbh.

What I don't like:
I'm not a big fan of making them like normal strikes. I feel like the flavor of it gets a little weird when they are buffed by regular runes. The damage of air is pitiful. Strikes feel like something you want to do as a filler. They have no bonuses to damage aside from limited stat increases. They deal very low damage. They cost actions, so they get in the way of gathering elements and using your cooler impulse actions. It feels like you have to choose. Do you want to use your cooler impulse actions by gathering power or your lame attack that barely deals damage to single targets. I'd much rather the final version combine the two in some way to make it feel like the two are more connected together in some way so it doesn't feel like I am having to choose between the two which just feels bad. Plus I'd only ever use Elemental blast as a filler and that feels bad.

One other thing I dislike - The lack of hybrid elemental blasts for dual gate. I don't want fire or earth. I want LAVA!

I do wish that the ability to change the form and substance of the elemental blasts were still a thing. It would give me more of a reason to care about them rather than just ignoring them and wanting to focus on impulses.

Random Thoughts on feats etc

Gathering Element and equipment:
Elemental Weapon and Stone Shield. Can they be used at the same time? It's unclear. But what isn't unclear is that I can't make a lava shield (fire and earth shield) and use a lava blade.

I also can't use just an earth shield and a fire blade either. I have to pick one or the other.

Assume Earths Mantle:
Assume Earths Mantle should be level 1. Let me build up with it in mind much like how Mountain Stance is level 1. In fact, imo, every element should have something similar to Assume Earth's Mantle that acts as their Elemental Defense that they start with. Dual Gate should be able to start with TWO of them combined. (So if I get earth and fire.. I would get assume Earth's Mantle AND some damage shield that works as some Assume earths lava ability. This would be one of the main benefits of dual gate)

Then make Assume Earth's Mantle not as strong at the beginning but works up to what it is at level 14. This way I don't have to invest in stats I don't need, like dex, only for my entire design to change at level 14. Do armor runes work with Assume Earths Mantle? If not, it feels like I'd actually lose stats with it as is, as well.

Action Economy: The action economy is rough and it seems a bit anti-synergistic. Gather elements takes 1 action and I have to use it in order to use some of the 3 action activities, then it takes me two turns to set up an ability that the payoff is relatively weak. I'm really not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

Things like stoke element is cool for being a dedicated gate and all but it costs 1 action for a class that is already feat starved. Using an impulse that takes 5 actions to pull off feels rough and not exactly fun.

DPS potential:
The damage on the impulses are very low. When you get to high enough level, the amount of times you can use spells and abilities every day is inconsequential. The idea of an all the time blaster works really well in computer games, but in PF, we blast blast blast and then the party rests. We are reliant on the lowest common denominator of resources of the party and they often have the highest damage potential. I think the DPS should be increased to accommodate that, otherwise, the DPS will be so low with the kineticist no one will want to play one as they'd rather just play a caster, since they can just rest once their spells are gone anyway, and then get them back.

Lack of Burn:

Im not a fan of the lack of burn. I'd support very low damage like it is now on the class if I had the ability to tax my body in some way to increase the effective level of the ability.

The Elements themselves:

Fire seems to be the lowest damaging element. It doesn't feel like fire at all to me, either. Lack of persistent fire damage on the abilities. This seems the exact opposite of how PF1 was where fire was the highest damaging element. Flame Eruption for example deals almost no damage. 1d6. It's infinitely worse than a cantrip.

Earth seems fine to me. I love how defensive it feels. It should be the most sturdiest element. I'd like to see some more defensive options though as well, maybe even defensive group options.

Water seems interesting. In PF1e it was more of a healer, but it seems water is now a DPS oriented element which is an interesting design choice. Probably has some of the highest DPS oriented Impulses.

Air has some very fun looking abilities like the apply nicknamed, "Power Word Yeet" at level 4.

Battlefield control and manipulation:

This is one of the things I LOVED about PF1e kineticist and I love about PF2E kineticist, but I don't think it goes far enough.

I should be able to get a feat where I can create a stone castle similar to creating a mansion feats some classes get.

I want to be able to control the entire battlefield by rising mountains or creating flame walls and I want them earlier. I love that feel of altering the very battlefield we're on.

Auras:
I love the Auras, but I'd put into the kinetic aura, as a default, that I can allow allies up to my con modifier to ignore the auras effects as a built in mechanism. This way I am not running around harming my party.

I'd prefer it if auras came online independently of me having to waste a turn on them though. For an already action starved class, I could do a lot to waste turns and by the time I finish "setting up" the fight will be over.

That's not very fun.

Well, that's all I have for now.

Let's name some Anti-synergy things.

I'll start.

If you have elemental Weapon and stone shield, and you're a dual gate, I cannot have a stone shield active with a fire weapon active... since I can only have one element gathered at a time. This breaks part of the feel for the class for me.

And here's how to do that.

On top of the free feats...
Dedicated can gather elements as a free action. They are so use to gathering elements, that they can do so freely.

Dual elements are restricted to only dealing with 'hybrid' elements of the combined types. It replaces all instances of what is occurring with it's hybrid benefit and deals hybrid damage. *So if I am an earth and water kineticist, I am riding a wave of mud rather than water*

Universal gates however need to spend that action to gather elements as gathering elements is more challenging for them to do. This will provide them an action tax, but can give them more variety of abilities to pull from..

While dedicated will be the most "efficient" choice as they are so accustomed to using just that singular element, they can do so effortlessly.

If you pick Elemental Defense, it is active as long as you have gathered an element.. Or just outright build it into "Gather element" so they gain a benefit while that element is gathered.

Fire - Provides a damage shield
Water - Provides concealment
Air - Provides a teleportation reaction? "If a target attacks you, instead, you may move 15 feet away as a reaction, vanishing from the spot you were just in. The attack instead misses completely." (This is to satisfy my inner weeb in terms of anime like bleach.. =P)
Earth - Provides damage resistance and AC along with a shield block reaction. (Pretty much their shield ability but built into gather elements)

Wood - Passive Barkskin ability with a single action activity in which I can entangle the area, but it removes the gathered element. I can select targets equal to my con modifier to ignore this ability.
Metal - Magic resistance, similar to a golem in a way?

This is such a cool ability. I wish we didn't need to wait till 14th level to get our mech...

The more we quibble about this, the more I think we need to bring back burn and beef the impulses to be as strong as regular spells, but to use them I have to hurt myself or use my life as "energy" to power them up, give them legendary class DC, expert in martial, and make the regular "elemental blasts" spell-like abilities instead and not actual strikes.

In an effort to make the kineticist more focused on a single target and to deal more damage to a single target, I would to offer up this feat suggestion

Level 1
Concentrate Impulse: Free action

The kineticist can forego his usual radius of one of his impulses to concentrate on a single target. Add one additional dice to the damage of your impulse, but only one target is hit by your blast, as you focus all of the elemental energy toward that singular target.

Level+3
Add one additional dice to your impulse.

This will allow the kineticist to deal with bosses much more easier and won't just be the "mook class" where he just uses AOE all the time.

Blasting in PF2E has always been subpar. The damage for the kineticist should be buffed to reflect being the epitome of the blaster class.

Atm I feel like the action economy is SUPER strict with the class itself, with overflow greatly restricting my ability to use my blasts. The action economy needs to be fixed.

Lets start comparing damage output.

For a level 20 damage 8d10 for a 3 action activity. It deals damage in a 30 ft burst or emanation. Pretty cool, right? 44 dmg per target on avg.

But the damage of a cantrip at that level is around 10d4+7 to two different targets. That's 31.5 damage to two different targets on avg if they fail their saves. The DC for their spells is 45. (wizard)

For a kineticist though, the DC for their 8d10 activity is 43.

Reflex saves for a 20th level are +34 for a gold dragon. Reflex is its weakest save by far meaning that I have to roll a 11 on the dice for it to save against a wizard spell, meaning a 50% chance of making said save or a 9 against the 30 ft burst.

So the amount of targets are higher, the saves are easier to overcome, but I target my own people as well.

Meanwhile a level 20 fireball would deal around twice as much damage, but limited.

Do you all think that the lower saves, but stronger AOE damage is balanced with a class that essentially gets a ton of reusables? I'm looking forward to trying it out more in depth...

This would be balanced by the fact that the kineticist doesn't hit hard with its blasts. It has no damaging bonuses. It's first strike is not as accurate.

It's basically like how rangers get bonuses to attack multiple times.

The kineticist wouldn't be about critting but about consistency.

At level 1, a ranger would deal d20 +7/5/3

A kineticist would deal d20 +6/6/6. But each ranged attack doesn't add in strength.

So kineticist deals 1d6+4 = 5-10 damage or an avg of 7.5. Against an AC of 18 is 7.5 dmg where I hit 45% of the time, then 35% of the time then 25% of the time.

While kineticist would hit the same target for 1d8 water for 4.5 avg damage at 40% consistency, 40% consistency, 40% consistency

Making it 7.875 dmg for full round attack from ranger vs 5.4 damage for a full round attack on avg from ranged kinetic blasts.

I think the math demonstrates it would be balanced.

Burn should be part of the kineticist but is just a reusable "strain mind" like the psychic gets, but heightens your spell level instead of gives you an amp.

The effect is still the same. The mechanic is already part of the game. It's simple.

You cast Aerial Boomerang at level 1. You burn for 2d4 damage. (1d4 per level heighten. It's level +2). You take an avg of 5 damage to deal an additional 2d4 damage with your Boomerang.

You can be healed. This turns your life pool into damage potential and gives you a very good reason to have con as high as possible.

Name: Not Sure (level 4 feet)

Choose one spell with the same element corresponding to your element. The spell must be level 1. You can cast that spell at a level equal to your level -3 and you can cast it an unlimited number of times..

Or something like that. I haven't done the numbers but essentially I can cast a low level spell however many times I want to cast it, but it remains at a very low level to be in line with the rest of the kineticist feats and balanced appropriately.

Rather than "I can either channel fire or earth" Dual gate should be able to have a list of various unarmed attacks that match that combination.

So for example - If I am earth + fire - I channel lava. Lava deals 1d6 bludgeoning + 1 fire damage and some other traits that are deemed appropriate. I cannot channel JUST fire or JUST earth. It has to be lava.. and every single one of my impulses that deal damage turn into some lava based attacks. All actions turn into dealing with lava rather than earth.

Air + earth? Sand
Fire + Water? Steam
So on and so forth. There would be 21 different "elemental blast types"

I think this would be far cooler being a composite rather than a switch hitter with both elements at play.

By far a fan favorite, this archetype should be a class archetype kind of like how gunslinger had its own class archetype.

Can't make ranged attacks, gets shield block as normal, can wear heavy armor with proficiency equal to the normal proficiency of the class.

Provide alternative feats in addition to the class as well.

This changes everything.

Elemental blasts cost 1 action, but don't suffer from the -4 or -5 penalty.

Or is this an oversight?