Unseeablething's page

What I use to make things clear in terms of running while stealthing is from the APG. Silent Hunter, an elven trait, gives you the ability to run while stealthed at a -20 penalty. So sure you can run and stealth as an elf.

Both stealthing traits Silent Hunter and Swift as Shadows make stealth extremely confusing. Both state: This racial trait reduces the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5. Now does this reduce ALL associated moving while stealthed as stated?

Stealth: -0(0)
Faster Stealth: -0(5)
Bluff Stealth: -5?(10)

In that same regard, my DM let a 5 ft bard ride a Mule, which is perfectly reasonable in the real world even though in the game they both count as Medium sized creatures. I think it's just the fact that both riding and size catagories are simplified to ease up on having heavy calculations that sometimes what is plausible seems to scuff at the rules. That's what DMs are for, to rule on all the exceptions that haven't been accounted for.

Plus it's also to simplify the fact you won't see a halfling riding an average sized dog no matter the strength of creature.

I hsve a question on Racial Traits. If you take the Racial Hafling Trait Swift as Shadows it says you have have to give up the Sure footed trait. If you take the Feat Extra trait can you trade can you take the Sure Footed Trait OR just take the Swift as Shadows Trait w/o losing Sure Footed?

The Extra Traits feat only applies to character traits mentioned at the end of the book. Not race traits, unless I read the feat wrong.

Edit: Because traits are not feats.

Thank you for your insight.

Blast I thought I could save them.

Halflings are irredeemable. And too small to enjoy them as hor d'ouvres.

But to answer your real question with one of my own, is there some rule text that says you don't first reduce the penalty from 20 to 10 (Swift as Shadows), then halve that from 10 to 5 (rogue talent)?

I'm just wondering if you did the math the other way around because the rules say so or because you wanted a zero Sniper penalty.

Truthfully, I have no idea which way to read it, but my DMing attitude is that little penalties are easy to eliminate with the right feats/spells/abilities, but big penalties are there for a reason and should not be eliminated casually. Which means, at least IMO, I would read it the way that the penalty ends up at -5 instead of -0.

It's still a huge combo (effectively +15 to hit when sniping).

To directly quote both.

Swift as Shadows: Halflings possess incredible stealth even while moving through obstructed areas. Halflings with this racial trait reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5, and reduce the Stealth check penalty for sniping by 10. This racial trait replaces the surefooted racial trait.

Stealthy Sniper: When a rogue with this talent uses the Stealth skill to snipe, she only suffers a -10 penalty on the Stealth check, instead of -20

So I don't exactly know which order to apply them. It appears to negate in the end.

In the APG halflings have the option of taking Swift as Shadows, reducing their sniping penalty by 10. Then, you have the new advanced rogue talent halving the sniper penalty of 20 down to 10. My understanding of this wording makes it appear the penalty in the end is nullified. With the sniper goggles you can snipe from 110ft(with a longbow),no stealth penalty, your only limitation being your vision. Am I understanding this correctly?