Search Posts
I wonder why is it still called a draft when it is the final version? Because in writing (particularly when it comes to legal documents), "draft" means "version". Draft does not (necessarily) mean "first" or "rudimentary".
I mean, obviously ALL starting points for systems like this are going to have an arbitrarily-chosen starting point (after all, how DO you calculate the fictional value of a fictional Starship?), but once that arbitrary base is set, then everything else should follow from a mathematical standpoint. If it weren't then there wouldn't be an entire branch of study dedicated to the mathematics of gaming. But yes, it definitely seems as though the Tier/BP relationship was determined by Dartboard rather than math. I'm having some trouble using that formula you gave me though. I get some really crazy numbers that don't come anywhere close to what the table shows. I may not be a mathematician but I do know how to use BEDMAS, however it's obvious I'm doing something wrong. Taking Tier 1 as an example and for simplicity's sake: BP = (2.77256 * tier^2) – (11.8741 * tier) + 103.066 BP= (2.77256 * 1^2) - (11.8741 * 1) + 103.066
You can see I get the wrong answer but I don't know why. What am I missing here?
Anyone know how Tier and BP relate to each other, mathematically speaking? And no, I don't mean "How many BP do I get at each Tier?" I can read tables. You're not wrong that it's a table, but that table doesn't explain the relationship between the Tier and BP progression. The reason is I'm trying to extrapolate beyond Tier 20, and as I mentioned in my OP, the BP costs for everything seem to be entirely arbitrary and nonsensical (see my examples of Shuttle vs. Pioneer frames, and weapon BP cost increases). In fact, Starfinder's devs have essentially admitted that they half-assed Starships because they "knew players would freak out" if it was absent and that they "actively encourage players to homebrew"; they basically included it to forestall any outcry from us. Those a direct quote from a dev, BTW (I've been trying to find the relevant Reddit post stating this but no luck). Starships was lifted almost entirely from FFG's X-Wing but overall poorly incorporated into SF. I absolutely know I'm not alone in this sentiment, as both Paizo's Starfinder boards and subReddit are positively littered with complaints and clarifying questions on this topic. I'm trying to sort it out to some degree to the best of my (admittedly limited) abilities. Thank you for doing the math! I'm not much of a mathematician so your help is very much appreciated. Your answer is extremely helpful and I think I can definitely use that in my efforts.
Has anyone figured out the relationship between Starship Tier and BP? I'm trying to homebrew some rules for starships but every time I try to do any major rules revision it all comes back to that relationship. I've been trying to extrapolate the algorithm/relationship between Starship tiers and the amount of BP granted at each level but so far I haven't been able to tease it apart. I was wondering if anyone else had figured it out. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, but Starfinder's Shipbuilding Rules are a total mess. I'm trying to bring some order to the chaos. Every component BP cost feels completely arbitrary, like there's is no mathematical foundation behind the numbers. Here's a perfect example:"The heavy nuke launcher is too good of a deal for 10BP? Meh, just bump the BP cost by 25 points; that should git'er'dun." This seems to be an entirely arbitrary increase without any numeric basis. For weapons, there Other examples include starship base frames; there should be a relationship to the frame BP cost and what it offers (weapon mounts, expansion bays, number of crew, base HP and increment) but there literally seems to be no logic whatsoever behind the design, especially when it comes to designing your own frames: pick a size, pick a number of weapon mounts, pick a number of expansion bays, pick a number of crew, then assign a BP number based on.....what, exactly? Compare the Pioneer frame to the Shuttle frame: both Small, but one has 3 Expansion Bays, 1 weapon mount, and 4 crew for 6BP, the other has 1 Expansion Bay, 3 weapon mounts, and 3 crew, for 2BP. The BP cost doesn't add up unless there are additional numbers used in the calculation, which there I also think the CRB errata for weapon BP costs is far too much of an over-correction (nothing new for Paizo; anyone remember the Quickrunner's Shirt nerf? Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier? Arcane Deed magus arcana? They could have just raised their prices or created PFS-specific rules but noooooo, utter destruction instead); I'm trying to reduce them to a more reasonable and appropriate level (10BP-35BP for a heavy nuke launcher? Are you kidding me?!). Contrary to what the printed rules would have us believe, there is a mathematical foundation behind the numbers, but it all rests on the BP/Tier relationship. Without knowing that relationship, every attempt to balance Starship building is essentially just throwing a bucket of peas at a wall to see which pea sticks. That's no way to build a game. So. Anyone know how Tier and BP relate to each other, mathematically speaking? And no, I don't mean "How many BP do I get at each Tier?" I can read tables. :) I really hope that Paizo gets serious about incorporating Starships with the upcoming book because they really dropped the ball with Starships 1e.
It's a question that came up at my table. No specific situation, just conversation.
You can voluntarily fail a save, CMD, or Skill check. Can you voluntarily fail a successful attack?
Hey there, Elghinn! I was searching for multiclass archetypes and came across your post, but the link is either dead or you have some restrictions on it. Do you by any chance have a re-up somewhere? EDIT, apologies, just read the final post in this thread. Thank you!
This sounds like a FAQ candidate if you ask me.
It's "smote". Yeah, I know it's years later. Sue me. :)
Necroing a bit, but death knell will temporarily increase your caster level -- though clerics of good deities will not, of course, be able to cast an evil spell. Enemy's heart will do the same thing, but since it works like death knell, I don't know if they stack. Strictly speaking, clerics are not prevented from casting spells opposite their alignment. They will, however, have to square things with their god and possibly seek atonement for violating the guildelines of their alignment.
As a front-line combatant, you'd want a pretty high constitution score to begin with, which would help with your Fort saves. Your Ref saves will already be off the charts because of your relatively high dexterity (you did make it high, right?). That will leave you with a relatively weak Will save, which could be corrected with items, or by being in a party with a good support class character.
You could affix a bayonet to the head of your lute, and a maul head to the bottom of it. Voila! No need to take your hands off your instrument.
In reverse order: Probably Magus from here on in, with a possible dip in a full BAB class later for reasons. On my list already. :) As is adamantine. Agreed, dirt cheap, but situationally useful. Still, 500gp.. I disagree. I'm already -2 vs a full BAB character. Adding another -4 seems the height of foolishness, when I can just switch weapons, then get Sap Adept through Forgotten trick. Although, merciful does the same thing as using a sap, except for the cost in gold and a weapon permanently welded to merciful. I haven't used them much, I admit. They have been used though, against skeletons and other P/S damage resistant creatures. Same for the bow, same for the dagger: they're backups, there when when needed, that's all. Agreed, and on my list for most of my weapons. The armor idea was mentioned earlier by another poster, it's a good idea. There is a spell, Blood Money, which has a similar effect to the Bloodstone, and it's first level. Much better than the bloodstone, if you ask me. I believe you already mentioned this, and I already agreed (and had come to that conclusion long before you mentioned it). Already on the list. Bow: already discussed and settled, as was the Katana question. After game-wide the power-creep which affected every class out there (Wizards, clerics, druids, and summoners especially), and the amount of class neglect the devs have lavished on the rogue, small wonder people think it's a useless class; every other class around it has gotten stronger, and poached it's territory. It used to be a very powerful class, long before 3.5, when it was still called a thief. Bards certainly aren't the best buffers in the game. In fact, many people have claimed the bard is useless; they just don't understand how to make it work, because it is a subtle class. The best are cleric, witch, or oracle. And yes, bards are second best at everything. They have 3/4 BAB, they're 3/4 spontaneous casters, they fill in as healer, fill in as database, have less feats available to them. They're very good as a buffer, but any full caster has them beat after level 5. This isn't just my opinion, but Treantmonk's, Ravingdork's, and Rogue Eidolon's. While my ideas and opinions may not carry much weight here, I know theirs do. I'll remember to be more courteous. Again, I've spent quite a bit of time in more rough-and-tumble environs, which conditioned me to be more volatile. I'll relax more. :) Take a look at any PFS character picture. What do you notice about them? Go on, I'll wait. Seriously, go take a look. Give up? They're bristling with weapons. I have the extra weapons because I don't want to be a 1- or 2-trick pony. Which is something that I mentioned in my OP: versatility. I did. Expansively. Multiple times. In painstaking detail. As though I were trying to explain it to a young, dull child. It started like this: I wanted the boost to my skills, proficiency in something more interesting than a scimitar or rapier, and have as many in-class skills as possible. I wanted to be able to sneak attack, as well as self-buff, and cast some spells. Having various SLAs or other abilities was a definite appeal. Is there a single class which lets me have proficiency in Eastern Weapons, gives me all but two skills in-class, lets me sneak attack, cast spells, and depend primarily on two ability scores, and doesn't require a mount? In short: No, there isn't. This is why he's what he is. This is exactly the character I wanted. I'm not rebuilding him, no matter how much I'm implored. I just wanted crazy weapon ideas, frankenstein monsters, and all I got was Kittens and apple pie. I appreciate everyone who contributed to this thread, but clearly, there is some disconnect here. You can't understand why I have built this character the way it is, and I can't solicit any useful information because this is a serious mental obstacle for people to get around to be able offer advice specifically on what I'm asking. Thanks for playing everyone.
I understand what the general consensus is. I'm not after general consensus. I'm looking for fringe whacko consensus. I'm more at home with fringe whackos. :) As for feeling like dead weight or anything else: again, it's not a concern. I'm not marrying him, and I don't have any problem retiring him when it's time. There are plenty of fish in the sea. :) As a point of note for role-play: when was the last time you ever met anyone who was efficiently optimized around a single career path, and how common are those people? Most people you meet are flawed, most deeply so, and are a mess of contradictions. This is why I have no issue with "eventual high-level nerf", why I don't understand why people don't understand, and my level of frustration. People keep telling me, "He's flawed!" I keep answering, "I know. I'm fine with it. Please suggest crazy weapon builds." and they all including you, ignore the fact that to me, that is irrelevant. Here's another analogy: it's as though I started dating someone everyone thought wasn't attractive in the same way I think they're attractive, like she has odd looks or a weird hairstyle or small boobs or whatever. Everyone is trying to convince me that I'd be happier with a girl with conventional looks, "the Rachel" haircut, and 36DDs, when I've been telling everyone I like bold noses, pear-shapes, and pixie cuts. I'm asking for Bonnie Rotten and I'm getting Haley Cuoco. I do like your idea of painted mithril. :) One of my items is Sleeves of Many Garments. I can make his clothes anything he needs, be they midnight blue or urban camouflage.
I think I have to post this disclaimer: When I'm explaining things, I get more formal and verbose. This is a result of my academic background, and is even more pronounced when I'm writing. I'm not trying to come across as condescending or anything along those lines; it's just my style of communicating. I'm not really worried about long-term satisfaction/dissatisfaction, as I doubt our campaign will take us higher than level 14 or so. If we're dealing less damage at a given level than we should be, none of us are bothered as we're not building for PFS, and our DM adjusts our encounter CR to suit. So perhaps now you can understand that this, what seems to me to be nearly fanatic focus everyone has on mechanical and numeric perfection, is totally irrelevant to everyone in my group and why I was becoming irked. I'm asking for creative, blue sky ideas on weapons, not build advice. When people tell me why my character won't make it to higher levels when they don't even know anything about the campaign I'm in, how my DM structures his games, the makeup of our party, how we're equipped, or how we work together. You may understand how I get could irked when someone with perfect ignorance of everything other than what I've posted here tells me I'm ruining my game. It's arrogant and insulting, on top of asking for chocolate and getting salted licorice instead. Moving forward, let me try it from another angle to see if I can convey my intent. Character concept Would anyone consider a bard, or a rogue, to be an imperfect class? Having seen the evolution of classes around the rogue and how many of them have poached what used to be rogue-only territory (such things as Trap sense, skill monkeying, and sneak attack), I could certainly see how many people would consider the rogue, at best, a nerfed class, and at worst, a defunct class, suitable really only for dipping, and only barely for that. The bard is a more subtle class, not the best at anything, but also not the worst. Bards also do not deal out huge damage, have a limited caster list (especially so, being a spontaneous caster), and a broad range of skills and knowledge. But no one would consider them to be flawed, just less-powerful than other classes. This is kind of where I was going with how I built my character, a second-best at many things, but from a different approach than the bard. I initially built it as a Ninja/Wizard, but I liked the synergy of Ninja/Magus better. Plus I liked the idea of a nova-y ninja. The bard acts as secondary caster, secondary healer, secondary ranged combatant, secondary/ melee combatant, secondary rogue. He is all of these things and none. Need a buff? Here you go. Need some extra blades in combat? Coming up. Can you give me some hit points? Sure, be healthy. Recognition of tradeoffs Am I limiting his already limited casting? Absolutely. Does this affect his ability to be effective in combat? Sometimes, yes, but generally, no. I know it seems as though it would be very limited, but I try to be creative and not rely solely on weapons. We also use the environment, in addition to various magic items like wands, to boost our combat capability creatively. How do I make up for lesser combat capability? Buffs, debuffs, heals, and distractions in rounds I can't do damage. Knocking down trees onto enemies. Setting traps. Causing cave-ins. There's more to ways to fight other than with swords, and more to Pathfinder than combat. Until the departure of our barbarian, he was the secondary/tertiary melee guy, the scout, the face, the sole caster, and the only healer. Now, because the party has changed and we have a ranger, he is now the primary/secondary melee combatant (ranger is an archer), secondary scout, secondary face, primary healer, the only infiltrator, and party crafter. Why? I let the story influence his build. We needed better weapons and items than we were getting. My magus, who by writ of the class description, would probably want to remedy that by learning how to make what he wants if he cannot acquire it. The realm we're in is fairly shadowy, letting me make extensive use of Sneak Attack, courtesy of my darkvision (dhampir). He's the second-most stealthy character in the party (the new ranger changed that, but various skill buffs make it a close second). I specifically intended him to have various redundancies as well. Background He's a ninja because of his "asian" heritage, and because he duped his family into thinking he was becoming a monk while learning to be an assassin. Ditto for magus vs wizard; he came from a rich and noble family and showed the knack, so his family sent him to the arcane college, because money, as well as having been raised around men-at-arms for the same reason. He's a dhampir because of the usual story, mom bit while pregnant, father killed defending mother, blah blah. Raised by his uncle, and was then exiled because he was found out to be a smuggler, something which brought shame to his (actually) noble family. I hope this explains why I don't think there's any issues with Hondo. The build of the character suits his backstory, and is influenced by what happens in the story. With that in mind, I hope this alleviates the general confusion experienced by everyone about the why and the method to the madness. Why this particular choice of classes/levels/feats? It's not that I'm a genius; it's not that I don't appreciate the feedback. It's that what I'm asking for is being largely ignored in favor of a dogged focus on "making the build right". I know how to build a character correctly; just follow the template and read some guides, pick a feat tree and stick to it. *yawn* I've done all of that. I'm mad-scientisting here, trying to create a Frankenstein's monster of a build. I'm bored with the standard builds and the archtypes. I am looking for similarly mad-scientist ideas. There have been a couple of promising ideas, but most have been pretty standard, nothing that anyone with the source books could puzzle out on their own. I don't care if the ideas live or die, just that they come. I'm looking for inspiring, non-obvioius, creative combos: hydraulic push and grease; flaming sphere/fire trail and pyrotechnics; aqueous orb and lightning bolt/hideous laughter/freezing sphere; frostbite and rime spell; or obscuring mist/acid fog, dancing lights, and ghost sound. Using Gloomblind bolts to heal my Dhampir. My Own Errors Perhaps that should have been my tack from the start, asking for creative, non-obvious, sky-is-the-limit ideas. But I could swear that's what I've been doing from the start. I'm hoping this doesn't come off as a rant, because I'm not trying to rant here, just clarify. I feel that may have been the issue and I may just start a new thread with a more clarified title, more obvious goals, and a clearer acknowledgement of the "flawed" nature of my character and to help clear the air a little. I'm considering posting my character, in toto, online, just so everyone can see it. Stats are one thing, a fully-equipped, kitted, and backstoried character another. TL;DR The character is an experiment as a sort-of bard, but from another approach. I'm a mad scientist trying to create a monster. Please create monstrous weapons and items with me. Mechanical perfection not necessary. PS: I might have been a bit of a |)ick. I'm sorry.
I came here from reddit, on the advice that it was much friendlier and would glean more useful information from the community. If you've been reading my posts, I have been friendly and courteous until it seems I'm starting to get trolled. You're right, my language does seem inflammatory. I suppose I've been sensitized by the level of trolling I got on reddit. I'm sorry to you, kestral, Deighton, Friulan, Cap. Darling. I know you're trying to help. I suppose I've spent too much time in troll-infested forums of late and I'm making you suffer. I'll try to moderate my language. Really, I'm a decent guy, but I do get frustrated fairly easily. I sometimes forget that there are other people out there in keyboardland.
Heh. So many people object to throwaways. 200gp is cheap for an encounter, especially if you're trying to hit incorporeal.
Going this route would be cheaper. I also like the image of sticking a net in a pot full of boiling goop to "treat" it for the next ghostly encounter. That's kind of neat. I like the theme, too.
I'm working on it, Eigengrau, but I could use a little support from anyone else (like you! :)) in the thread with similar goals to keep wayward conversations in line.
If my attitude seems bad it could be from getting trolled by people who tell me I have a bad attitude when I get annoyed with people who don't read the OP, follow the thread, or understand and follow forum guidelines regarding such things. I may be a newbie to Paizo's forums, but I'm not even remotely new to forums. I came here from reddit, on the advice that it was much friendlier and would glean more useful information from the community. If you've been reading my posts, I have been friendly and courteous until it seems I'm starting to get trolled. I have politely and repeatedly asked people to read the OP, which, if I know only one thing about online forums, this is it: read the OP and lurk a while before posting. Hardly anyone here has, including Mr. Thistlefoot and yourself. Somehow I'm the bad guy for asking people to obey the rules and stay on topic. You people crack me up.
Good luck. Thanks. Do you have any weapon ideas?
If you had read the OP, you'd know that he has cesti. I never said anything about IUS. I don't have IUS. Nor do I have natural weapons. Why would recommend something which specifically requires IUS? Posters like you are the reason I get annoyed.
You'd know this if you had read any of the thread: when using spellstrike, Sneak Attack, and TWF, but I can reliably dole out 12-15d6+10 per round, a lot more when I nova, at +12 to hit. I'm not going to tell you how, though, because I know you'll explode trying to figure out, and because that's not what this thread is about. I wouldn't say he's underpowered.
Thank you for understanding what I'm after and being the only person who has been remotely on my side. To be honest, I don't even know why I bother asking in online forums, because everyone is fixated on min-maxing or DPR, and when I ask for something that isn't that, people lose their minds. They become fanatical. And yes, as you said, TWF and magus do mix as long as you use spells with uses/level like Frostbite and Chill Touch (which is even in the FAQ).
I've never DM'd a group that large before, but every DM I've ever listened to says that the optimal group size is 5 players max, plus DM. Additionally, as a beginner DM, you'll find that managing the needs of such a large party, such as calculating encounters and treasure, taking each player's turn in combat, and other demands will be a huge amount to take on. Even veteran DMs avoid having such large groups for this very reason. If you're serious about getting these people interested in gaming, I suggest splitting the group and playing 4 at a time. Otherwise you'll be shortchanging them and depriving them of the best part of the experience, the immersive role-play and story-telling. Why, especially for a beginner DM? If you're not familiar with the rules of the game, you'll spend more time looking up rules than you will be gaming. If you don't know the rules well, how and when they apply, and how they work together, especially with a system like Pathfinder which has hundreds of options for any given character, then you'll quickly find yourself overwhelmed. TL;DR For a shiny DM, with shiny players, 8 is way too many.
That said, a GM who doesn't like Agile... probably won't like the Lace. Worth a shot, but I won't bet too highly on it.I would also have this concern. :) I'm playing a ninja/magus with craft magical arms and armor, and I just put agile on my wakizachis, and my DM b|tched and moaned about it, claiming it makes Dexterity the overpowered, go-to stat, "and-why-would-anyone-play-anything-other-than-a-dex-build?" Yes, DMs will complain. Count on it. But if they don't nerf it off the bat then you can probably keep it.
Think Brotherhood of Nod's stealth tank combined with the Obelisk of LightLook up RenegadeX, it is a free remake of CnC Renegade, you might like it! Love the reference though. My question is though, what is the theme you are looking for? I still think Katanas go well, and anything with a high crit rate and the burst energy types just for the fact that it keeps the theme of blades and magic. Thanks for joining the conversation Kaiin, but you've been part of the thread since almost the beginning. I've been pretty clear about what I'm looking for. Just scroll up a bit.
Please see Pay particular attention to the parts in bold type. I have detailed what I'm looking for more than once, and detailed my character more than once as well. Please read the thread before commenting. Pay particular attention to the parts in bold type. C'mon guys. At least read the OP before chiming in.
I see what you mean. I didn't think to check the tables. But yes, nothing in the description says melee only. And agreed, i don't see why you couldn't either. Arrows of ghost touch? Seems reasonable to me.
Thanks again for your feedback. I appreciate your thoughts, but I'm set on building it the way he is. I wanted him to be versatile both in and out of combat. In-combat, I wanted to be able to adapt to as many given situations as possible, including using skills. Bad guy is immune to regular steel? I've got cold iron and silver. Half damage from slashing or piercing? I've got Sais or a mace. Need to do ranged damage? Ranged proficiency at will. I have used most of my weapons thus far, some more than others. The cesti are armor, which means I can't be disarmed of them and they don't take up the hand slot. The sais are for dealing bludgeoning damage. After having it spelled out to me I'll probably switch to the bow for ranged, supplemented by shuriken (which I can launch up to 5 thanks to various buffs, and hit for sneak attack as well at close range). The dagger is a safeguard/backup, much like the cesti. Everything was chosen specifically for an asian theme, explaining my choice of ninja, and thus weapons. So not necessarily 100 weapons. Believe it or not, I have thought it through, even though many people seem to think I'm either deficient or daft. I'm fine with toting around 6+ weapons. Why aren't you fine with me being fine with it? I'll say it for those who haven't really gotten the point yet:
I am building it for ROLE-PLAYING purposes. Thank you for your concern, but I am not concerned. I have been warned, threatened, trolled and warned again about hampering his damage potential. I am soliciting creative weapon enhancement/enchantment combinations which are more thematic than damage oriented. It may seem like I'm being kind of an a-hole with the point, but FFS, how many people cannot read a simple instruction given repeatedly? If this were a thread asking how can I boost my DPR into the stratosphere I'd have a million useful suggestions. Ask for something else? People go mental and it breaks their brains. Please read the OP thoroughly. I know that many people chiming in believe they are helping me, and I appreciate that, but rather than trying to change my mind about how I develop my character, I would appreciate support in the form I'm asking and have asked repeatedly. It's kind of like that aunt who keeps buying you sweaters that you'll never wear, because you have different ideas of what's attractive. I'm trying to tell my aunt that I don't like loud patterns and she keeps buying me ugly cardigans. You guys are being that aunt. Please stop giving me ugly sweaters.
An anchoring, ghost touch net would seriously hamper anyone incorporeal. I like that idea! Thanks!
I found the ring, Sihedron ring; it's the same as Ring of Force Shield. +2 AC as a free action. Not bad, but shield gives +4 shield bonus and doesn't take up a ring slot, is a 1st level spell which stops magic missile, and lasts minutes per level. AC bonuses don't stack, so if your armor is better than +2AC it's pointless. Overall, it's a subpar option for just about anyone other than a straight caster, and even then bracers of armor +2 beat it by a country mile.
Ghost touch can be placed on any weapon. It's an easy check, which I did, and you remember incorrectly. I checked out the decoy ring; it's meh. I have either a Ring of Arcane Mastery and/or a Ring of Ki Mastery in mind. As for the other ring.... well, if I don't have the right spelling it's very difficult to find it. But thanks anyway. I already have a couple of rods. Which sounds dirtier than I meant it to. Yes, I have, but I had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder.
Sorry, I just realized that my first reply wasn't much in the way of a reply. Let me correct that here. In order: Mainly I'm looking for ideas in terms of what weapon enhancements (including permanent enchantments) might be suitable for my character, chiefly in terms of theme, with DPR very much a secondary (or lesser) consideration. I would like to make up for some damage capability, I do good damage already because of how much utility I get out of sneak attack (through feinting, flanking, smokesticks, and other methods), and my enhanced shocking grasp courtesy of Magical Knack (a trait that gives +2 to caster level). I'm already the chief damage dealer of the group (after our barbarian went rogue), but that's not how I have designed him. I designed him to be stealthy but with good damage potential, and to be the party face. Spellcraft, UMD, Acrobatics, Stealth, Bluff, Perception, and Sense Motive are maxed or near-max, and I get various bonuses which push them into the mid-to-high teens. Because of the combination of classes, I have all but Heal and Survival as class skills, and have been investing at the very least a single point in everything, for various reasons, most of which have to deal with role play. He's a magus, which means that, in terms of role-play, he'd be doing a lot of research and would know many things. Additionally, he would also be widely knowledgeable in combat, something which is brought about by means of Forgotten Trick (lets him access every feat tree he needs temporarily). Additionally, he's a smuggler and would have a wide variety of skills through his profession. This is why I'm not interested in DPR as much as versatility. Thematically, he's decently good at everything, knowledgeable about many things, and good enough in combat to not be taken for granted or lightly. Think along the lines of sneaky, burst bard rather than in your face combat mage. Why didn't I play a bard? Why do I need a reason? I'm also the party item and weapon crafter. I have all of those weapons; the list is my wish-list of upgrades. I listed them in order of use. I try to use Sneak Attack as much as I can in concert with Spellstrike (shocking grasp, chill touch, frostbite, or whatever other touch spell I have available; I've even used arcane mark to b|tch-slap the BBEG and leave my initials on his face). I like being stealthy and attacking from flanking or the shadows as much as possible. Before you say it: Yes I know I won't get greater invisibility or Ghost Blade. I knew this before I had dozens of min-maxers flame me about it. If I can't flank, attack from shadows, or otherwise incapacitate their ability to see me, I feint. If I can't get any of those conditions, I debuffs and then go full-frontal. I try to pin them down with web, or trip them with thunderstomp, or blind them with obscuring mist or mudball. But those are general combat strategies. I don't like fighting the same way in each encounter, and I don't have any real preferred tactics, because I don't want my GM to get used to a combat style from me and start throwing me curveballs (I like being the one to throw those). I do often end up casting any party buffs because I'm the only reliable caster and because of my UMD score. I also make extensive use of the magic items we have on-hand, and my favorite spells are mage hand, detect magic and prestidigitation. I have detect undead as a 3/day SLA. Between my perception (which is currently being put to shame by our new ranger party member) and my other detection spells, I'm kind of the party sensor suite. Think Brotherhood of Nod's stealth tank combined with the Obelisk of Light. Blue sky it. I want to hear creative, not necessarily DPR-related ideas for weapon and armor enhancements or enchantments. That's why I said I don't care about gp value. I'm looking for ideas, so go wild. Eg: Hondo is a dhampir. Something like a cruel, ominous, life-stealing, enervated weapon, or (as previously discussed) leather Darkleaf shadow spell storing armor. I'm looking for ideas, and not ones necessarily attached to DPR. I know how to get ridiculous DPR. I'm looking for off-the-wall ideas and neat combinations of abilities. Thanks for the correction on saps.
There's only one kind of proficiency. If you are proficient in a katana, then you can one-hand it.Also another couple points in favor of the wakis: I was already proficient with them. I'm wondering about proficiency with katanas; does that mean that I am able to wield them one-handed, because I am proficient with them as an exotic weapon? I've read a number of very good arguments both for and against, but I haven't found any solid answer. It was the ambiguity that made me choose the wakis, plus I could wield two with no extra feat.I had it in my head that wakizashis were 1d4, but as-is the big edge is Fencing Grace. If that's not a concern (really depends on whether or not you have the feat budget to support it) then they're the same. Rapier is just an easy comparison point for me. Well. That changes a couple of things now. Hmm.. must do some thinking.
Just remember all that gear WEIGHS. It's not an issue when you have a bag of holding for your loot, and our DM trusts us to keep everything legal. We do, but he often thinks of my... well, I'm not munchkining per se, but he seems to think so. Hell, I'm not even close to being optimized. I can only imagine the complaints we'd get if I was actually playing a level 7 magus. In our last campaign, we had a party of 6 11th level characters: a human shadowcaster, a kitsune druid, a half elf jedi (you heard me), a fetchling shadowcaller (summoner), a warforged artificer, and a human vivisetionist. We were flat-out massacring giants every encounter through sheer combat ability and our DM was wondering why. We worked well together and knew how to make plans. Plus being crazy powerful. It would have been fun to take on a dragon. :(
I had it in my head that wakizashis were 1d4, but as-is the big edge is Fencing Grace. If that's not a concern (really depends on whether or not you have the feat budget to support it) then they're the same. Rapier is just an easy comparison point for me. Also another couple points in favor of the wakis: I was already proficient with them. I'm wondering about proficiency with katanas; does that mean that I am able to wield them one-handed, because I am proficient with them as an exotic weapon? I've read a number of very good arguments both for and against, but I haven't found any solid answer. It was the ambiguity that made me choose the wakis, plus I could wield two with no extra feat.
This isn't something I'd considered, but anchoring combined with ghost touch would ruin anyone who liked being incorporeal's day. I just read about a +1 net with ghost touch. If you're hit with it you're auto-entangled and must work to become un-entangled, and if you're a ghost you're pooched. I just noticed sneaky, a +5000 gp upgrade, which lets me deal sneak attack to a designated target 1/day (2x/day if you're a rogue - wonder if that means ninja, which is an alternate rogue class?)even if the situation doesn't normally allow for it, and only until the end of the next turn. It's a decent daily, but it'd be better if it scaled. I like the idea of darkleaf armor with the shadow ability. Again, nice and thematic. I also just noticed Deathless, which prevents the first 10 positive or negative damage done, and ignores healing spells (they pass through).
As often as I can make it happen. I'm still not getting the point of the rapier over wakizachis. They do the same damage, have the same crit threat and multiplier, work as well with my abilities as is. I don't get rapier at all.
Oh my bad, I thought the Rapier was a 19-20 crit range! Haha well then, don't I just feel foolish now. The rapier's an 18-20x2 crit range, does 1d6 piercing, whereas the wakis do that already, plus slashing, and also have the deadly property. If I were to go the Effortless Lace route, its not an issue as I have taken Craft Wondrous and Craft Magical Arms and Armor. I can make any of my weapons or items anytime, all I need is gold and downtime. As things stand, Im probably sticking with the wakis for the forseeable future, until I can get some other shenanigans going. I like the idea of having at least one katana, thematically, but I would have to put effort into making it work with spell combat.
Actually, no, I wouldn't. He's a ninja, so he already has proficiency with the katana. It would be a matter of taking Slashing grace, or putting agile on it and taking Weapon Focus for it. The only thing that wouldn't apply is Weapon Finesse because it's not a light weapon. Ok, now I just read Effortless Lace. OMG, twin katanas here I come!
I have to ask, why the to-hit and damage differential between the Katana vs rapier? I don't understand why a katana would hit less often than the rapier, considering I would have feats appropriate to keep the to-hit bonuses up, and currently with my wakis, they're at +12/10 (single weapon/Spell combat/TWF), not to mention identical stats and, of course, the upgrades. The only thing I could see being different would be wielding two rapiers vs 1 katana. He's already proficient with katanas, and would need to get Agile for the damage bonus and retrain weapon focus. If I added that Effortless Lace on top of it, I'd be able to wield twin katanas or at least one as a light weapon in my off-hand. I also don't understand how you're getting the difference in accuracy. It's my weapon proficiency and to-hit bonus which dictates that, not the weapon itself. With the right feats the accuracy rate should be identical.
And yes, I know a tunnel brute is CR7; my DM boosted it to CR9.
Now this is exactly what I've been asking for. Great idea. I've also been eyeing Shadow and Hosteling.
What you say about retraining is true, but my DM looks at me doing this as munchkining, and it's bad enough that I just crafted a whole bunch of magical weapons and bought a whole bunch of new spells, plus pearls of power. My DM seems to have some prosaic views on the game. But retraining a whole archetype is a bit much, as it would completely change the way my character works and plays. I have to stress again, because it seems everyone is missing the point: I did not design him to be a DPR monster but rather to be versatile, and more suited for social situations, and also able to dish it out in combat. He is not repeat NOT a DPR machine and was not designed or intended to be one. I am not attempting to make up for his "weak points" with weapon enhancements, although I can see how some would interpret it that way. I agree with your assessment on the wakizachis; they've served me well, and quick draw is on my list of To Get feats. The shuriken I can draw as many as 6 in a round and apply sneak attack damage to those attacks. It's not a lot of damage, 1d4+2d6 per hit, but it adds up, so it makes them worthwhile long into the game. I get a lot of recommendations specifically for a bow, but numerically I don't really why, other than the single point of damage. The crossbow has a better crit range, which I like. If i really want more damage, I'll upgrade to a heavy crossbow and enchant it. I suppose because it works with quick draw. I have the cesti specifically if he's ever unarmed, which has happened, and I've been glad to have them, and gotten extra damage using spell combat and arcane mark to Zorro a BBEG's face with them. The sais....well, so far they've been used twice in 7 levels. Daggers are always handy to have, and has proven useful repeatedly. The crossbow, not a lot either, but it's good to have a ranged weapon. Thanks for Weapon Versatility, that's a good feat. What about weapon ability enhancements? That is, specifically, why I opened this thread. I already have agile on the wakis, keen will be next, then maybe
Other enhancements I'm interested in are menacing, courageous, ghost touch, called, deceptive, and spell storing. I'm trying to be thematic with my weapons and build, which is why I've made the choices I have, like Darkleaf, or Cthonic steel, or WHY.
I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but... Giving someone advice about 1st level decisions when they've posted stats for a 7th level character is, well... pretty dumb. I guess I'll just go back and change that feat/archetype, right? My character is hardly nerfed, at any level. In fact my DM complains about how much damage he does. So, at the risk of sounding rude, you don't know what you're talking about. I built him in this fashion for very specific reasons, which have to do with the R in RPG (which doesn't stand for "damage-per-round"). Please read the OP. What I'm looking for is advice on weapon and armor upgrades. What I'm not looking for is a critique of him, advice against making him a strength build, rules lawyering or digressions from the main topic. I'm more than happy to discuss the build, or alternative build, Or anything else, but not here. Before we get into the build, yes I know I'm talking about potentially a Hundred thousand gp, that you may not like my build, or any other number of objections, but really, all I'm looking for is input about likely Armour and weapon upgrades, nothing more. I hope this doesn't come across as aggro, or dickish. That's not my goal and if I come across that way I apologize. I'm just trying to narrow down the amount of data I need to sort through. Basically, I'd like feedback about weapon abilities that would complement his abilities. Obviously, to some this seems unrealistic and that's fine if you do. However, I'm only interested in hearing about weapon abilities. If you'd like to discuss my build, please Pm me. Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp? Every single place I've posted this, from Reddit, to GitPG, and Enworld, there's always someone who comes along and doesn't read the OP. I mentioned this specifically in the OP, not once, not twice, not thrice, not four times, but five times.
I get to use SA quite a bit, because of the realm we're in (it's rather shadowy), and I also can feint quite well, so I can almost always get it. As far as the skills go, ninjas are rogues and get 8+int whereas a magus gets 2+int, not to mention having every skill in class except for two, heal and Survival. Which translates into 48 skill points vs 24, and gives me a distinct advantage in spellcraft, Knowledge: Arcana/Religion/Planes/Nature, plus UMD, and stealth, and perception, and acrobatics, and Diplomacy, and Bluff, and Intimidate, as well as single points in a whole bunch of other skills too. Which I get to use pretty often. I also took Spell Scars, lets me use pretty much any spell I have whenever I want, and I also have Pearls of Power. I'm probably not going up to Med armor (why give up my dex bonus?), I got 2 "feats" in ninja tricks, am still on track for my BAB, have a good set of saves all around, plus evasion, I myself can't be flanked unless by an 8th level rogue, have an AC of 20 (24 with shield). I know it seems to you that I don't know what I'm doing. Let me assure you that I do. >Forgotten trick is the only saving grace, but until you get a ring of ki storing, it takes 2 ki out of your, what, 4? to get a feat. 5, actually, soon to be 6, as well as 6 arcane points. And I don't mind waiting for it to get to full bloom. My DM has actually complained about how powerful my character is. >Sure, you are having fun with it, but Magus 7 is objectively better. It pretty much won out at 3rd level spells. You make it sound like fun is the secondary reason for playing the game: "Sure you're 'having fun', but your fun would be more fun if your fun was more like my idea of fun." I play role-playing games for fun playing the character and not to make handsful of die-rolls for tons of damage. If I wanted to do that, I'd play Warhammer. I'm playing the character I specifically designed to be this way because I wanted to play a character with these characteristics and qualities for role-playing purposes. The fact that I built it this way should also have strongly suggested to you that DPR isn't my main concern from the outset. For the record, I did take on a tunnel brute (CR9) almost single-handedly (with minor assist from one other party member) and win, at 6th level. So he does pretty well for damage-dealing, I think. If you some of my other posts, you'd realize that I've likely read all of the tables you have, particularly the ones which list what abilities I get, and when. I also happen to have the books which contain the classes. I know exactly what I have given up. I built the character in this fashion, for this reason, because I wanted it to be this way. I designed it specifically for extreme versatility and some redundancy, to be highly skilled and also really nasty in combat. I give up things on either end for that versatility, but that's the cost. >2 levels of ninja can be worth it for a Ki pool (double your Ki arcana if you are CHA heavy for ES maybe?), so you can get an extra attack when you spell combat, the single trick that can be forgotten trick (or you can retrain it into that later I guess), so you can grab the tricks you want once you get a ring of Ki storing, and maybe at low levels the skill points aren't bad. 4 levels is an overkill, plain and simple. Well, that just, like, your opinion, man. I have another opinion, and I think 4 levels in ninja is just perfect. I might take another, specifically ninja level 5, just to offend you some more, because it's a dead level and I know it'll irk you. :P
What he said.
I decided on crossbow because of the better damage delivery. I don't have high strength, so the 1d8+1 is objectively better than the 1d6+2, and I eventually won't really be concerned with feats, as I'll be able to access any of the ones I want through forgotten trick. I'm aiming to make as much use of Sneak attack as possible, but it seems our combat of late has been more straight-up fights and farming than the more situational damage of SA. We're primarily in a shadowy realm, so I get to use SA quite a bit. Plus I can also make it happen through feint. I like the darkleaf because it's thematic and works well with my character's roleplay as well. He's not supposed to be a straight-up combat monster, but to deliver a crapload of SA damage, and debuffs as well. BTW, I am armed to the t**@, because I like the idea of my ninja/magus bristling with weapons, and a variety of means to deliver it.
|
