Hello everybody. here's a new thread about an old question (as i saw threads from 2010 about it) but none seems to properly answer it.
the question is "can somebody deliver an attack or a touch attack while being pinned ? ".
first of all, here is a link about the grappled and pinned conditions taken from the d20pfsrd website, site that take in account (as far as i have seen it) what as been said in the paizo FAQ.
grappled condition :
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Grappled
pinned condition :
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Pinned
here is another topic on a similar subject, i will present you with some of the arguments we can find in it and why there are not correct to me.
i will ignore every dm fiat and houserule. for if i wanted to use houseroules, i wouldn't post this question in the first time.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kx1a?Pinned-Question#25
Happler said wrote:
I think that this line:
Quote:
A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component.
for me states that the pinned creature does not have use of their hands at all. Since to cast a spell with somatic it states:
Quote:
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.
So the inability to cast with somatic means that you do not have one hand free at all. Thus no touch attacks, no attacks with one-handed or light weapons.
problem is that we have the same statement in the grappled condition. and we can still attack in the grappled condition. so Happler and M P 433 did not really chose the best angle to reckon that through.
then we have several people arguing about how to interpret the line "A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions."
trying to interpret a vague statement as this one that clearly must be a flavour text is just good to get a good headache and to lose your hair. i tried to compare to the french version of this statement only to see that it was not correctly translated.
(in the pathfinder wiki : http://www.pathfinder-fr.org/Wiki/Pathfinder-RPG.%c3%89tats%20pr%c3%a9judic iables.ashx)
in french they say "Une créature immobilisée est fermement retenue et ne peut pas entreprendre la moindre action." wich can be translated by "a pinned creature is tightly bound and cannot take a single action."
the french version does not help here.
then, here comes the "asnwer" marked as favorite
Sean K Reynolds said wrote:
Making a touch attack is neither a verbal action nor a mental action. That is self-evident.
Oh? so i must presume that a combat maneuver check or an escape artist check is only a mental or verbal action? the pinned guy must be quite a psion or at least a terrible bard, screaming loudly in your hears and making you release your grasp on him with a tremendous pain !
one last point is on the rule that say : "Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack."
in grappled, there is a -2 to attack and touch attack actions. in pinned there is nothing about it. shall i presume that it means there is simply no attack or touch attack action in the pinned condition?
or must i consider that the -2 is still effective? but it shouldn't as their conditions do not stack. right?
not really a point on wich we can base our debate if we hope to find an answer.
sorry for the long post. this question and all the debate that run around makes me a bit too much angry. i hope you won't be affraid and help me find the one argument to take them all and in darkness bind them.