The severed head of Mike Hughey's page

As for not helping a town that's so "blatantly careless"... San Fransisco's built on top of a major earthquake fault line. Pompeii was built in the shadow of a volcano. The entire island chain of Hawaii is volcanic. New Orleans is a coastal city built below sea level. The tradition of building cities in unsafe locations is hardly a tradition limited to D&D.

Not that I disagree with Mr. Jacobs' sentiments here or anything, but in the interest of accuracy, I feel it should probably be mentioned that in the cases of San Francisco and Pompeii, the danger only became obvious AFTER the cities were built. NOBODY saw Mt. Vesuvius's eruption coming (well, technically, they did, but only about a day before it happened, when smoke started pouring out of the summit...).

#90 Tears for Twilight Hollow is one of my favorites. I had the party chasing ghost for 2 sessions before they figured out who the villain was. I enjoyed DMing a paladin who tried to convince a mob of angry villagers that they, the party, didn't bring this curse to their town.

I had almost forgotten that one. Let me second that as well. Great issue, with Tears for Twilight Hollow being especially good.

I have to throw in a nomination for issue #84 -- the one with Monte Cook's "The Harrowing," Jonathan Tweet's "Dungeon of the Fire Opal" (the "full version" of the sample dungeon from the 3.0 DMG), and three other damn fine adventures as well. Very tasty issue.

But the old addage "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" isn't apt here. That phrase is describing checking the horse's teeth (a generally accepted way of seeing how healthy a horse is)... the phrase means "Don't complain about something that's free." But here's the thing... The Overload isn't free... it was a selling point.

I payed for a product with the understanding I would recieve support for it. So this has nothing to do with complaining about the quality of something free... this is complaining about not getting something that I was told I would get to support something I paid for.

So maybe a better horse-based analogy would be this:

Say I see an ad in the paper, placed by someone selling a horse. The person selling the horse has an excellent reputation. I call and express interest, but am not completely sold on my purchase of the horse until the seller mentions that the horse will also come with a saddle, so that I might ride said horse. Now I'm sold, and we agree on a price. I send the seller a check for the agreed-upon amount and arrange to pick up the horse in a week.

When I arrive to pick up my new horse, I find it to be a fine horse, one of the better ones available to me, especially for the price I'm paying. But I'm told the saddle isn't ready yet, and should be available for me to pick up in another week, should I care to go through the inconvenience of returning, rather than receiving it with the horse, as originally agreed upon.

After a week, I call the seller to inquire about my saddle. I am told it still isn't ready, but to make up for the wait, it's now a really really cool saddle instead of just a regular old run-of-the-mill saddle, and it will be ready any day now. So I wait a few days and call back. Still no saddle. And a few more. Still no saddle. And yet even a few more days, and still... no saddle.

Of course, I could buy another saddle. After all, I paid the man for the horse, and the saddle was supposed to be an extra; I answered the ad for the horse, and I got the horse. But I don't want to do that; I was told I'd get a saddle with the horse.

Or I could ride the horse bareback, waiting patiently for my saddle and making do without it until it arrives. But that's a little more difficult to do, and it still doesn't change the fact that I was supposed to have my saddle by now.

My copy of #125 just arrived in the mail yesterday. Everything's a matter of perspective, isn't it?

A few people's issues showing up late doesn't change the fact that the article should have been ready well before the issues were printed and shipped over a month ago.

As of today we actually bypassed the three week mark...

Actually, depending on how you look at it, it could be considered even more late than that.

It was supposed to have been included in issue #125, meaning it should have been ready weeks ahead of time to facilitate placement in the magazine, typesetting, printing, etc, so the issue could be shipped to subscribers. (I'm guessing it should have been ready in at least text form about the time most subscribers received #124 if it was to be included in #125.) As of a couple of days ago, issue #126 has shipped to subscribers, and we're still hearing that some of the content promised in #124 isn't even written yet.

So I'd put the unofficial count at coming up on (roughly) two months.

This tread truly astounds me. Has anyone stopped to think that this is a FREE supplement to the adventure path?

Keep in mind that the reason it's being offered as a FREE supplement is that it was supposed to be a normal article, but it got cut because some of the other material ran over its word-count limit. And if all had gone as promised in last month's issue, it would have been printed out for us, in someone else's ink, on nice, glossy, magazine-grade paper, in this month's issue, which most of the people complaining have already paid for (whether by buying a subscription or by purchasing the issue individually) -- most of whom fully expected to find the article within, and instead were directed to the website, so that if they have internet access (keep in mind, for instance, the number of troops stationed overseas who write to Dungeon to express their appreciation for it), they can download what I assume is a fairly large file, then print it out their own damn selves (and have you seen how much the average inkjet cartridge costs?). And when they go to the page referenced, it isn't even there.

Nope. No reason to complain here.

I see Paizo took someone's advice and put up a link to the Age of Worms Overload under Dungeon Mag Resources with a message saying that it is estimated to be up Friday.

Yeah...was anyone else fooled by that? I saw it, and gasped in shock and delight, thinking, "It's not supposed to be ready until Friday!" Clicking on the link revealed it to be nothing but a cruel tease. I guess it keeps the oblivious plebs from starting another 10 threads titled "Where is AoW Overload?" but shame on you, Robert Head, for teasing me!

It got me, too, but I still think it's a good idea to have it there. Should cut down on the confusion for the general public and non-message-board crowd.

...They committed to giving us this article, therefore, they have a responsibility to do so. I have no doubt that they will. They've never given me any reason to think it's not coming.

Weeeeelllll....There once was a comment in the page from the editor a while back about updating all the previous adventures in DUNGEON to 3ed...

If I'm remembering that comment right, it was something along the lines of, "I think maybe we could see fit to update some old adventures to 3e, if the demand is there. Which ones would everyone like to see, if we decide to do this at all?"

In the case of the AoW Overload, we were told, essentially, "This will be in next month's issue!"

Slight difference there.

My issue was with your previous statement regarding how Paizo "doesn't have to" produce online supplements.

Well then, since your issue is more with the way the editor/staff have chosen to handle something about Dungeon, I have a suggestion...

Wow, you just totally ignore everything you don't agree with, don't you?

I'll just point out for -- what? The third time? -- that I personally have no problem at all with the way this is being handled on Paizo's end; I'm just trying to convey that I think the people who are upset by the situation are in no way in the wrong for feeling that way, nor for voicing their displeasure.

And -incidentally- it's only July 9th right now, not the 12th.

Right, but we were told earlier in this very thread that it probably won't be ready by the 12th, hence the assumption of that event (or lack thereof, rather) in my previous post.

I think it's sufficient that more than one editor has posted here, apologizing for the delay - and given that they've offered up parts of the PDF overload early.

Maybe it is. But the reference in the magazine doesn't point people to this thread, and people who don't frequent message boards might not think to search for their answers on one. It's very likely that there is already a large group of readers who checked the page they were sent to, and never saw this thread. That group will only get larger as time goes on.

Lastly, I think it's really clear that their staff is working on it. I have good faith that it will come along, and that when it does it will be very high quality. They've said it's coming soon, so I think it's an extremely good bet that they will deliver on the PDF.

I'm sure they will; nobody's saying it's not coming. My issue was with your previous statement regarding how Paizo "doesn't have to" produce online supplements. Most of the time, I'd agree with you. But in this specific instance and only this specific instance, I'd argue that they do (or at least that they need to do something). They committed to giving us this article, therefore, they have a responsibility to do so. I have no doubt that they will. They've never given me any reason to think it's not coming.

- People complaining here are those that are getting the magazine far *earlier* than those who buy it off the stands. If you'll take a minute to look carefully, the month for issue 125 is August. It's an August issue. Most people get it in August. When an editor usually writes the word "today," he or she is under a working plan to get things ready by the time the issue is on the retail stands, not when it might go out earlier to various people. They can't promise subscription delivery times, but I've always seen them earlier than the retail stands.

- The staff are trying to get the free supplement done by 7/12, and the last time I checked, the 7 was for July. The date of 7/12 is when retailers are supposed to have it on their stands. If they get the free supplement done by 7/28, then that is still before August (an 8).

Yes, the cover says "August," but the fact is that it's hitting newsstands in July. When someone goes into his local game or book store on July 12, buys the current issue (no matter what date is on the cover, the most recent issue of a periodical is generally accepted as the "current" one, right? It's not considered an "advance copy" or something until the first of the month), reads the editorial, and sees the word "today," is he really expected to go back to check the cover date and then say to himself, "Oh, the August issue. I guess I'll wait a few weeks"? No, he's going to go online today and wonder where the article is. The article he was expecting to find today when he bought the magazine. And apparently there won't even be something in the space where the article should be that says, "Sorry, this is running a little late. Check back soon."

(Shouldn't there at least be that? Some kind of explaination on the page that's referred to in the editorial? I know there's an explaination in this thread, but why make people hunt for it who otherwise don't frequent internet message boards?)

Free supplements cost them a good deal of time and manpower, and as such they really don't have to offer them. Would you prefer to wait for your subscription until August, or until a free anything is made ready? I like getting the magazine early, I like getting the free supplements. But I'm willing to be patient for something that is free.

Like I said in my previous post, I'm perfectly okay with waiting for it myself, and I'm okay with not seeing it in the magazine. What I'm trying to do is advocate for the people who are upset at the time it's taking; I'm not upset myself, but I think someone who is upset has every reason to be.

And about how they "don't really have to offer them": In most cases, I agree. Free web supplements are a perk, and one I appreciate.

In this case, however, being that the article was already promised, it would be pretty low of Paizo not to do something. They did promise the readers that this article would be in the issue, after all. Since circumstances occurred which made that impossible or unrealistic (or could have resulted in the article just outright sucking because it was rushed), I think a free web supplement is a perfectly acceptable solution, as would be waiting and putting it in the next issue (though I have to assume that would be taking the place of some other feature, and that's probably not a vicious cycle Paizo should be entering into if they can help it). But it had damn well better show up in some form or another.

My first thought when I read the question was the black pool...

While I'm more than happy to wait for the .pdf (I'm just now gearing up to run a Shackled City campaign, so it will be a while before I'm ready to run Age of Worms), and I think it's really cool of Mr. Mona to post what he did here, I think some posters' attacks on the impatient people involved in this thread are a bit unfair. Yes, everyone appreciates the work the Dungeon staff is putting in. Yes, everyone understands that these things take time.

However, in this month's "From the Editor"...

Drop by the DUNGEON section of paizo.com today to download Age of Worms Overload...

I've bolded the important part.

Had that said "soon," I'd be right with all the people who are telling everyone else to be more patient. But the way I read it when I first got the issue, I thought I could go download it immediately. Nothing. So I waited a few days. Nothing. Well, that's okay, it's not "technically" out yet, since the newstand release date isn't here. Now we're told it won't be ready then, either. I understand these things take time, and I appreciate that this is a very busy time for the Paizo staff. But I think things were implied that give the people who are upset at having to wait just cause to be upset.

Beyond that, I'm not sure I understand an important part of this: the reason given for the article being cut was that there wasn't enough space to run it. So... what if some of the adventures in the issue hadn't gone over their word counts, and there was enough space for it? Would the article have somehow been ready for print then? I'm not asking that to be difficult; I honestly don't understand. If the article was originally intended for issue 125, shouldn't it have been more or less done by the time the issue was sent to the printers, regardless of whether there was space for it or not? (And if it became clear that there wouldn't be enough space so early in the production process that it was still a ways from completion, why didn't we hear anything about how long it's taking to finish until after the fact? Why were we essentially told it was ready when it apparently wasn't even close?) Maybe there's a lot more that goes into dealing with an article submitted by a third party that runs long than I realize (all I can really think of is that there's a little more editing and typesetting involved; maybe I'm missing something), and that meant people got sidetracked, but I can't imagine it could be a delay of more than a week or so.

Again, not an attack, not an attempt to start anything, not even really a complaint. Just a call for fairness, I guess. And a couple of questions.

Hmm... I don't know what's wrong; I'm still figuring out this board, formatting-wise. Just use the search function to look for "Scarlet Tide" and it will come up.

There was a thread on LotST here on this very board a while back that may answer a lot of your questions (see below -- is there some kind of special code for this board that I could use to make that a link? HTML doesn't seem to be working). Nothing about converting it to 3.5 if I remember right, though.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dungeon/generalDiscussion/archives/any oneEverUseTheLordOfTheScarletTideFromDungeon87#4011

I was planning one a while ago (back when 3.0 was brand-new) using a few of the early 3rd edition adventures. I was going to start with Evil Unearthed, since it left the villain's goals pretty open-ended (he was digging for something, but it was never stated exactly what he was loking for). Then I figured the lack of a cleric in town would lead the townsfolk to ask the heroes to travel to the nearest larger city to escort the new cleric back there (since the way the villain in Evil Unearthed got "in" was by murdering and posing as the town's new cleric when the previous one died). I figured that town was Dorr from Ever-Changing Fortunes. After finishing that adventure, they'd bring the new cleric back (protecting him along the way), and by that time, the friends they had rescued in Evil Unearthed would have had time to research the seal in the ruins on the mountain and determine what was under it: the Dungeon of the Fire Opal.
I never really figured out where to go from there, but the opal itself could easily have been the catalyst for a "destroy the evil artifact" quest, a la Lord of the Rings... I was playing with the idea of eventually working it into The Harrowing as one of Laveth's power recepticles.

Unfortunately, like most of my campaigns, this one never got off the ground.

I like this idea; I wish I'd read this before starting to run the campaign myself. Still, I may steal some of these ideas for my own game.

Do you have access to a copy of Unearthed Arcana? It has a whole section on racial variants based on environment (i.e., jungle elves, desert dwarves, etc.) that might help flesh some things out, and a decent illustration of what a black elf would look like (the desert elf variant) -- an idea I really like, by the way.

Personally, I'm thinking maybe some of these variant races (I'm thinking desert dwarves and gnomes, and jungle elves) are native to this "New World", while the more traditional versions would be there in small numbers as colonists. Maybe the campaign could begin with the player characters (all standard races) all literally right off the boat. Makes for an easy way to band them all together, plus it would give a real sense of exploration to the whole campaign, as you reveal more and more of this strange new land to them over time.

As for the church of Wee Jas, it's a jungle, right? Maybe the first group of colonists to settle the Cauldron region were nearly wiped out by disease (malaria?) soon after arriving, and what was at the time a small group of Wee Jas's clergy was able to stave off the disease and keep it from completely decimating the population. They're death clerics; they preside over funerals and the like. Maybe liberal use of spells like gentle repose kept the damage from being too overwhelming (one of the main threats in the immediate aftermath of the recent Asian tsunami was the disease that threatened to spread from all the bodies literally piled up in the street). Since then, they've had significant political power in town, and maybe the church even recieved a special commendation or other reward (noble titles for the high-ranking clergy?) from the King for preventing his investment from becoming a total loss.

I remember reading somewhere a while back that a lot of it is hand-drawn. It's a safe bet that Photoshop or something similar (PSP, etc.) is used to clean things up and add text, though.

I didn't really have much exposure to Dungeon until the time 3e came about, but I feel obligated to nominate "The Harrowing" from #84. In fact, that whole issue was great.

I also really liked "Glacier Season" (#87) and "The Seventh Arm" (#88).

I can never tell since that harpy Alanis Morrissette released that song...

But anyway, I thought I'd share an interesting Dungeon-related story:

A while back, I ordered some back issues through this website, and was very, very impressed by the speed at which they made their way to my mailbox (six business days). So I sent Dungeon an e-mail letting them know how much I appreciated that. To my surprise, someone decided to print it in "Prison Mail."

Thing is, I missed that issue. And I had to order it through the website again. And again, it showed up very quickly (ten days this time, but there was a holiday in there). So again, I'll mention that that department is doing a great job. They all deserve raises.

Just thought it was kind of funny that my letter about ordering back issues was printed in an issue I ended up having to order as a back issue...

You could always use Metallica's "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)" and/or "The Frayed Ends of Sanity"... both available at the amazing low price of FREE on the very same internet you're looking at right now!

Yes, that was a joke, kids.

But seriously, I'm thinking I'll use "Sanitarium" for most of Skullrot and "Frayed Ends of Sanity" for the final battle (and maybe "Harvester of Sorrow" for Dark Myrakul, now that I think about it). And yes, I own legitimate copies of both albums.

Being that I'm starting the campaign sometime in the next few weeks myself, this is actually a big help.

I ran it for my players a while ago (two-and-a-half years or so); I had a similar experience to yours, Matt. I loved it when I read it, but my players didn't like it at all. Especially once they got to the Crown of Blipdoolpoolp -- four whip ghosts attack, one telekinetically hurls a player into the water, another lightning-bolts the pool, then they keep doing that until the ghosts are all defeated. Next room? Exactly the same thing. Next room? Same thing again. And again. And again. It got pretty old for me while I was running it, too -- I didn't realize when I was reading it just how many of those rooms were exactly the same. The Behir ancounter was fun for all, though.

Dr. Pepper (real Dr. Pepper; none of this "diet" stuff for me) is the single most perfect beverage in the history of beverages. But it's definitely better cold; I've had it warm, because I've left it in the car on a hot day (even had a couple of cans explode in my brand-new car the other day). It's not bad hot. Not good, but not bad. Drink it cold (or at least room-temperature) if at all possible -- you're not missing anything by not heating it up.

Mountain Dew is horrible. It's one of the most vile caffienated substances on the planet. If I need to wake myself up that badly, I'll risk a heart attack and pop a Xenedrine instead -- at least I won't have to resort to drinking a "soda" with brominated vegetable oil in it (read the can, kids).

It's also a little-known fact that in a recent blind taste test, Mountain Dew was soundly beaten by its main competitor in terms of flavor -- Lemon Fresh Pine-Sol.

I've been pronouncing it "j-ZAD-i-roon."

And "ball HAM-a-toon" is what I go with, too.